Democratic Socialist Discussion Thread

[SektorE]

Excuse me, but how on earth can democracy and socialism be together? Socialism (in all forms) is not democratic. It doesn't treat all citizens equally.

Democratic socialism is achieving socialism through democratic means, which means through elections and voting.

But the result is loss of democracy.

[Duvniask]

Democratic socialism is achieving socialism through democratic means, which means through elections and voting.

But the result is loss of democracy.

No. Common to all socialism is the emancipation of the working class and the abolishment of capitalist relations, which are undemocratic by their very nature.

[SektorE]

But the result is loss of democracy.

No. Common to all socialism is the emancipation of the working class and the abolishment of capitalist relations, which are undemocratic by their very nature.

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

[MERIZoC]

No. Common to all socialism is the emancipation of the working class and the abolishment of capitalist relations, which are undemocratic by their very nature.

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

And yet that's what capitalism does. Odd.

[Duvniask]

No. Common to all socialism is the emancipation of the working class and the abolishment of capitalist relations, which are undemocratic by their very nature.

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

Your post is utter nonsense.

Socialists see the very real class divisions of the capitalist system. The capitalist class (those who own capital) maintain their dominance over those that do not (the proletariat). The goal of socialists has always been to abolish the privilege of the former and to introduce a more democratic system instead.

[Skeckoa]

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

Do you care to elaborate further? I'm afraid I'm not quite understanding.

[Skeckoa]

The following is for organization solely:
My argument— constitutions are useless
My evidence: Countries don't respect their constitutions, and most constitutions have not lasted
your counter argument: The point is for a system that respects the will of the majority and opposition of the minority. Best option is a mixed liberal democracy
Your Evidence: Western nation's success with constitutions.
My counter-counter: People shouldn't have to live under constitutions which have proven themselves to justify and legitimize evils[/quote]
Your counter^3: Yes they have, but most liberal progress has happened under constitutional democracies

That is a good point I'll admit, but to that I have to say this: Laws are reactionary. Governments and laws are society's way of pushing forward its values. The liberalism and progress of Europe, I believe, has happened because of the culture and history, not because the way that their government is structured, and much less because there was a constitution. People make progress, not 'vanguard' governments (which are usually the average muck of the people to begin with, and by their very nature, as you said in an earlier post regarding the "nervous" game and government)

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

All socialism is evil.

[Threlizdun]

A rather unnecessary term. It's like describing hot fire or electronic computers.

[Aushanit]

For awhile I've identified as a Social Democrat but when through a phase where I was really interested in Sovislism and Communism. I'm sympathetic to Democratic Socialist although it wouldn't say I agree with their politics as a whole as I find myself slightly more capitalistic then social democrats tend to be but on a social platform I agree with them.

All socialism is evil.

Could you elaborate? Just saying something is evil doesn't give credit to your views my friend.

[Kelinfort]

All socialism is evil.

No, no it isn't. I disagree with it, but socialism isn't evil.

[Atlanticatia]

All socialism is evil.

No, no it isn't. I disagree with it, but socialism isn't evil.

This. I don't agree with having a socialist/Marxist-Leninism system, but it's hard to call it evil. It's goal is social justice and protecting peoples rights. Whether you think that it achieves those goals is a different story.
This is In contrast to laissez faire capitalism. Some might call it evil because it does not protect people's positive rights, and ends up with various social classes/oppressed people.

And that, is why I'm a social democrat. I think social democracy combines the merits/goals of both capitalism and socialism (mixed economy/free market + protection of positive rights + fighting for social justice and against oppression)

[Kuzestan]

No. Common to all socialism is the emancipation of the working class and the abolishment of capitalist relations, which are undemocratic by their very nature.

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

It's about the means of production really, not the wealth. Wealth redistribution is just the side effect of the redistribution of the means of production

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

For awhile I've identified as a Social Democrat but when through a phase where I was really interested in Sovislism and Communism. I'm sympathetic to Democratic Socialist although it wouldn't say I agree with their politics as a whole as I find myself slightly more capitalistic then social democrats tend to be but on a social platform I agree with them.

All socialism is evil.

Could you elaborate? Just saying something is evil doesn't give credit to your views my friend.

Socialists oppress people.

[Threlizdun]

No, no it isn't. I disagree with it, but socialism isn't evil.

This. I don't agree with having a socialist/Marxist-Leninism system, but it's hard to call it evil. It's goal is social justice and protecting peoples rights. Whether you think that it achieves those goals is a different story.
This is In contrast to laissez faire capitalism. Some might call it evil because it does not protect people's positive rights, and ends up with various social classes/oppressed people.

A Marxist-Leninist system is not a socialist system, and it would not be out of line to refer to such a system as evil.

And that, is why I'm a social democrat. I think social democracy combines the merits/goals of both capitalism and socialism (mixed economy/free market + protection of positive rights + fighting for social justice and against oppression)

Social democracy does not strive for a "mixed economy". Classical social democracy believed in a gradualist and reformist approach to socialism, believing it would take a great deal of time for socialism to be realized, so that they should focus on reforming capitalism in the meantime. Modern social democracy supports regulated capitalism without the goal of socialism. Neither support a mix of capitalism and socialism because such an economy cannot exist. The means of production cannot be both privately owned and socially owned at the same time.

[The Flood]

I am a social conservative, but politically support socialist policies such as universal healthcare, regulations on businesses, welfare, etc.

[Threlizdun]

I am a social conservative, but politically support socialist policies such as universal healthcare, regulations on businesses, welfare, etc.

Those aren't socialist policies, just regulated capitalism with social welfare progams, which would make sense for any capitalist interested in supporting their system to support.

[The Flood]

I am a social conservative, but politically support socialist policies such as universal healthcare, regulations on businesses, welfare, etc.

Those aren't socialist policies, just regulated capitalism with social welfare progams, which would make sense for any capitalist interested in supporting their system to support.

I am not very fond of capitalism. It should be regulated to within an inch of its life, corporations should serve us, not us serving them.

[Kelinfort]

For awhile I've identified as a Social Democrat but when through a phase where I was really interested in Sovislism and Communism. I'm sympathetic to Democratic Socialist although it wouldn't say I agree with their politics as a whole as I find myself slightly more capitalistic then social democrats tend to be but on a social platform I agree with them.



Could you elaborate? Just saying something is evil doesn't give credit to your views my friend.

Socialists oppress people.

How so? State socialism can, but democratic socialism allows democracy and voting to be elected.

[Kelinfort]

Those aren't socialist policies, just regulated capitalism with social welfare progams, which would make sense for any capitalist interested in supporting their system to support.

I am not very fond of capitalism. It should be regulated to within an inch of its life, corporations should serve us, not us serving them.

Not really socialism, which is basically workers owning the means of production.

[SektorE]

Capitalism is the only democratic economic system. Socialism wants to treat people differently according to their wealth. Seems like a new class system to me and discrimination too.

Your post is utter nonsense.

Socialists see the very real class divisions of the capitalist system. The capitalist class (those who own capital) maintain their dominance over those that do not (the proletariat). The goal of socialists has always been to abolish the privilege of the former and to introduce a more democratic system instead.

There is no class divisions in capitlistic economy. There are only people who are willing to earn what they want and ones who do not. It's much easier to make money by raising taxes than actually earning it.

[Benian Republic]

NATIONALISSSSSM

But seriously Fascism is the best
Government type out there so
Ya you guys might want to rethink
Your political views.

[Aushanit]

Your post is utter nonsense.

Socialists see the very real class divisions of the capitalist system. The capitalist class (those who own capital) maintain their dominance over those that do not (the proletariat). The goal of socialists has always been to abolish the privilege of the former and to introduce a more democratic system instead.

There is no class divisions in capitlistic economy. There are only people who are willing to earn what they want and ones who do not. It's much easier to make money by raising taxes than actually earning it.

Tell that shit to a Nam Vet. But seriously their really is class division in capitalistic societies just look America. Their are people who work so hard to get so little and then there are people who don't do anything and have millions. It's a lot more about mini pulsating the system at times then it is about hard work. Of course this isn't always the case but it does happen more often then people like to thing.

For awhile I've identified as a Social Democrat but when through a phase where I was really interested in Sovislism and Communism. I'm sympathetic to Democratic Socialist although it wouldn't say I agree with their politics as a whole as I find myself slightly more capitalistic then social democrats tend to be but on a social platform I agree with them.



Could you elaborate? Just saying something is evil doesn't give credit to your views my friend.

Socialists oppress people.

Are you not even trying? Please if your going to try and justify a view point at least make an effort. It's like me saying "Socialism is good because I think that way".

[Herrebrugh]

Your post is utter nonsense.

Socialists see the very real class divisions of the capitalist system. The capitalist class (those who own capital) maintain their dominance over those that do not (the proletariat). The goal of socialists has always been to abolish the privilege of the former and to introduce a more democratic system instead.

There is no class divisions in capitlistic economy. There are only people who are willing to earn what they want and ones who do not. It's much easier to make money by raising taxes than actually earning it.

Aah, yes. The "poor people are all lazy bums!!!1!11" idea.

Of course it's real easy to get up on the social ladder when you have zero contacts, no money to go to a prestigious school (or even get a proper meal) and are probably not very motivated by all the shit that comes with growing up in a poor environment.

Of course rich people never received help from their moms and dads, or simply inherited their wealth.

Yep, and nope.

By the way, if all the poor people of the world would stop working right now, the entire earth would fall flat on its face. I'd be a little more grateful, if I were you.

[Herrebrugh]

NATIONALISSSSSM

But seriously Fascism is the best
Government type out there so
Ya you guys might want to rethink
Your political views.

Wow. A random guy/gal on the internet says "Fascism is the best". Better "rethink my political views"