NationStates

Not the smartest thing Asda has ever done. Mediocre idea seized upon by apologetic political correctness brigade.

Camelza wrote:

Sdaeriji wrote:
And since the KKK sees themselves as a continuation of the tradition of Christian military orders, it's not surprising that they co-opt a lot of the same symbolism.

So, England should change its centuries' old flag, which is a renmant of its real crusading kings, because a bunch of butthurt southerners formed a racist hate group and capitulated templar symbols and history? I don't think so...

Who said that?

Sdaeriji wrote:

Lemanrussland wrote:So what?

So, the people saying things like "It looks nothing like the KKK uniform, it's simply a white pancho, which is distance enough, however the red colors then separate it further," are wrong.

Yeah, but the KKK doesn't own the St. George's Cross. A red cross on a white background is a pretty generic symbol in the Christian world.

So I really don't see what the issue is, speaking as an American who's sitting back and watching this controversy from the side lines.

For pity's sake, it's a rain poncho, and it's in a country that does not have the historical context necessary for them to be upset about the Ku Klux Klan. Someone take this non-news item out behind the shed and put it out of its misery.

Ashmoria wrote:that's funny.

id change the white to another color.

It's in the colors of the flag of England -- white field quartered with the red cross. It's like saying "Have the eagle on the Mexican flag hold a daisy in its talon instead of a snake."

Sdaeriji wrote:

Camelza wrote:So, England should change its centuries' old flag, which is a renmant of its real crusading kings, because a bunch of butthurt southerners formed a racist hate group and capitulated templar symbols and history? I don't think so...

Who said that?

How do you get from explanation of KKK symbolism to "change England's flag"?

Actually, middle England has now firmly seized back the English flag from far-right nutters. I live in a respectable housing estate and there's a few houses fly St. George's Cross and nobody bats an eyelid. You do the same in an inner-city Victorian terrace and you're a racist...

Seriong wrote:

The Serbian Empire wrote:Yep, and on a rapid decline as Neo-Nazis have a larger net of hatred.

I don't think so, if I recall correctly, Neo-Nazi's are cool with Catholics, something the KKK isn't.

Excuse me? Which Catholics are supposedly ok with assholes who most assuredly do not 'love their neighbor as themselves'?

Katganistan wrote:For pity's sake, it's a rain poncho, and it's in a country that does not have the historical context necessary for them to be upset about the Ku Klux Klan. Someone take this non-news item out behind the shed and put it out of its misery.

And Kat hits the nail squarely on the head.

Well said.

Sdaeriji wrote:

Camelza wrote:So, England should change its centuries' old flag, which is a renmant of its real crusading kings, because a bunch of butthurt southerners formed a racist hate group and capitulated templar symbols and history? I don't think so...

Who said that?

No one, my point is that we should not criticise the English for using templar symbols which are also used by the KKK because the English capitulated those symbols quite earlier. It's the KKK which should be brought into an imaginery court for copyright breaches.

Breadknife wrote:¹ The least British of the four national patron saints of Britain, as it happens...

Excuse the petty pedantry, but Andrew is surely just as "un-British" as George.

England: Saint George - Late 3rd-century Roman soldier, most likely from around what's now modern Israel.

Scotland: Saint Andrew - 1st-century Palestinian Jew/early Christian.

Ireland: Saint Patrick - 5th-century Romano-Briton kidnapped by Irish slave traders from somewhere in the western part of the Roman Empire's British provinces (Patrick himself wasn't too clear on the details; the location of Bannavem Taburniae eludes us - it's not this site).

Wales: Saint David - 6th-century Welshman from southwest Wales.

Which ultimately means that while Patrick is at least from the British Isles, David is the only British/Irish national patron saint who was actually born in the country of which he's now the patron....

Ashmoria wrote:

Fascist Russian Empire wrote:Who the fuck cares? Half the people in the UK probably don't even know what the KKK is, so why make a big deal about it?


You do realize that the English flag has the color white in it, don't you? Saying that people shouldn't print English flags with white in them is like saying German flags shouldn't be made with the color black on them.

it doesn't need to be all white, does it? it can still have white and make the rest....blue...there is blue in the English flag isn't there?
or it could be any color with the actual flag in its normal proportions on the back.

im not saying that they MUST do that. its just what I would do. its not like the KKK look is big in England.

There Is NO Blue In The English Flag

The Serbian Empire wrote:

Izandai wrote:That is really the only reason people are talking about this. If the makers of the poncho had just given it a rounded hood, like, oh, I don't know, EVERY OTHER HOOD THAT WASN'T A KKK HOOD IN EXISTENCE (at least that I've seen).
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe the poncho intentionally looks like a KKK uniform. It's the only explanation for such an idiotic design choice that by rights shouldn't even occur as a possibility to most people.

I bet it's to get Americans talking no less. Free publicity just from the shape of the hood.

Absolutely. It's just like the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony; according to Rush Limbaugh, all that NHS love was pointedly and solely aimed at American conservatives protesting against Obamacare, which was ridiculous since (according to the Lord our Rush) everyone in Britain hates the NHS.

Everything any British organisation does should solely and exclusively be seen and interpreted via an American cultural lens.

It's the only way to be sure.


Though sarcasm aside... just one teensy-tiny counter point...

Asda is a wholly owned subsidiary of Walmart, and has been since 1999. While Asda's offices in England were probably just going "nice poncho; love that flag", this does have some potential for causing embarrassment back at international HQ in Bentonville, Arkansas.

The only issue I have with this is the rather hideous triangular hood, which will make its wearers look like idiots even without the KKK references: which, given that this is England, will make them look even funnier.

Izandai wrote:

The Serbian Empire wrote:Look at the pointed tip of it... it's the Klan!

That is really the only reason people are talking about this. If the makers of the poncho had just given it a rounded hood, like, oh, I don't know, EVERY OTHER HOOD THAT WASN'T A KKK HOOD IN EXISTENCE (at least that I've seen).
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe the poncho intentionally looks like a KKK uniform. It's the only explanation for such an idiotic design choice that by rights shouldn't even occur as a possibility to most people.

It's cheaper to make a straight seam than a rounded one. I've seen ponchos like this everywhere.

I'm with the paranoids on this one. If you look at the picture and you don't see any association with the KKK you've failed as a designer, if you subsequently decide to actually put it in the store you've failed as a company. Not selling is also a possibility. Who'll wear a raincoat during the summer anyway?

Alcmaria wrote:I'm with the paranoids on this one. If you look at the picture and you don't see any association with the KKK you've failed as a designer, if you subsequently decide to actually put it in the store you've failed as a company. Not selling is also a possibility. Who'll wear a raincoat during the summer anyway?

Have you ever been to England?

If you see an association with the KKK, you're making links where need not exist. This is a country where the KKK probably doesn't even exist, and certainly isn't culturally relevant.
ASDA is saving pennies on the design of each cheap £3 poncho by using a simple straight seam and suddenly people are claiming they're being racially insensitive. No.

Aodan wrote:No they might be american and think England is all of Britain, like 2/3 of the US

Of course they are; they're concerned that a poncho from a country which isn't America looks like the uniform of some American racists, and that Brits should really "check their products" in case they offend Americans/draw upon negative parts of American culture.

I think the OP deserves all the -ing he can get.

Alcmaria wrote:I'm with the paranoids on this one. If you look at the picture and you don't see any association with the KKK you've failed as a designer, if you subsequently decide to actually put it in the store you've failed as a company. Not selling is also a possibility. Who'll wear a raincoat during the summer anyway?

You're joking, right? Have you ever seen the UK?

Yes, yes, stupid Americans don't realize that it's England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, four separate countries, under the flag of the UK.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Have you ever been to England?

If you see an association with the KKK, you're making links where need not exist. This is a country where the KKK probably doesn't even exist, and certainly isn't culturally relevant.
ASDA is saving pennies on the design of each cheap £3 poncho by using a simple straight seam and suddenly people are claiming they're being racially insensitive. No.

Chemaki wrote:You're joking, right? Have you ever seen the UK?

Yes, I have. It doesn't matter is the KKK is active in the country or not, people everywhere know the KKK and how they dress, and we're not talking about an individual here that sells ponchos in his backyard, we're talking about a large British supermarket chain which is actually a subsidiary of Walmart. I'm not saying they're racially insensitive, I'm saying they're foolish. I can't blame an individual for being foolish, but again, out of 175,000 employees can't one single person prevent such a blunder? The damage to their brand will be bigger than their profit from these cheap ponchos, and the media are not to blame, and even if they were, they should've known how media are with an upcoming WC. Therefore, a blunder by fools.

I really don't think many people in the UK will care that a white poncho looks a bit like the KKK uniform, which, surprise surprise, is basically a white poncho. People have more pressing concerns about racism over here rather than racism in the US 100 years ago.

You're somehow implying that the use of a straight seam is a "blunder".

Why not suggest that buying a Volkswagen is a "blunder" because you implicitly support the Holocaust in doing so, while we're at idiotic leaps to incorrect conclusions?

Imperializt Russia wrote:You're somehow implying that the use of a straight seam is a "blunder".

Why not suggest that buying a Volkswagen is a "blunder" because you implicitly support the Holocaust in doing so, while we're at idiotic leaps to incorrect conclusions?

Again, it's not a problem when an individual does it, although I swear that I'll never buy a Volkswagen exactly because of the Holocaust. Call it idiotic, I have my principles.

Alcmaria wrote:Again, it's not a problem when an individual does it, although I swear that I'll never buy a Volkswagen exactly because of the Holocaust. Call it idiotic, I have my principles.

Will you ever buy tobacco or sugar then? Tobacco and sugar were the primary products produced by the slave trade. I'm not saying your principles are idiotic here, I'm saying you're a hypocrite.

Alcmaria wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:You're somehow implying that the use of a straight seam is a "blunder".

Why not suggest that buying a Volkswagen is a "blunder" because you implicitly support the Holocaust in doing so, while we're at idiotic leaps to incorrect conclusions?

Again, it's not a problem when an individual does it, although I swear that I'll never buy a Volkswagen exactly because of the Holocaust. Call it idiotic, I have my principles.

Your principles are indeed idiotic.

Alcmaria wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:You're somehow implying that the use of a straight seam is a "blunder".

Why not suggest that buying a Volkswagen is a "blunder" because you implicitly support the Holocaust in doing so, while we're at idiotic leaps to incorrect conclusions?

Again, it's not a problem when an individual does it, although I swear that I'll never buy a Volkswagen exactly because of the Holocaust. Call it idiotic, I have my principles.

You won't buy a certain brand of car because of something that happened in World War 2? I have never heard anything so moronic in my life.