Interactive map/study shows that 1 billion are antisemitic.

[United Marxist Nations]

Before we jump to the conclusion that anti-antisemitism is on the rise, I think we need to examine what the group that made the survey consider antisemitic. There are lots of groups that say that being unfavorable to Israel is anti-antisemitism.

What do you mean by anti anti-semitism?

The hatred of chrome's auto-correct.

[Saiwania]

I don't think anti-Semitism is on the rise in Western Europe. Then again, I haven't been there since last summer.

If people from Islamic countries are immigrating to western Europe, it makes sense that antisemitic belief is being imported. Jews being generally not welcome in said Muslim majority countries. The Jews that do remain, are more often than not reduced to a Dhimmi status.

[Shie]

Antisemitism is immoral. If a nation full of people are antisemites, fire them from their jobs and cut all foreign aid.

No mercy for racists.

[Geilinor]

I don't think anti-Semitism is on the rise in Western Europe. Then again, I haven't been there since last summer.

If people from Islamic countries are immigrating to western Europe, it makes sense that antisemitic belief is being imported. Jews being generally not welcome in said Muslim majority countries. The Jews that do remain, are more often than not reduced to a Dhimmi status.

I hope you have a source for the fact that the antisemitism is coming from the Muslims in Europe. Antisemitism has been in Europe for centuries and it hasn't all gone away. If antisemitism is on the rise, it could very well be coming from the rise of right-wing parties.

[The New Sea Territory]

Well....yeah. About 1 Billion people in the world are Muslim (not all of them are anti-semitic but a number are), and the rest are probably just assholes scattered around the world. I don't find this surprising.

[The New Sea Territory]

Antisemitism is immoral. If a nation full of people are antisemites, fire them from their jobs and cut all foreign aid.

No mercy for racists.

They aren't racist. Jew is not a race... you're feeding nazi trolls by acknowledging it as one!

[The Scientific States]

What do you mean by anti anti-semitism?

The hatred of chrome's auto-correct.

I figured it was a mistake.

[Natanian DRNR]

As a Jew, this makes me feel uncomfortable. I did not think almost 1/4 of the world did not like me!

[The Serbian Empire]

I don't think anti-Semitism is on the rise in Western Europe. Then again, I haven't been there since last summer.

If people from Islamic countries are immigrating to western Europe, it makes sense that antisemitic belief is being imported. Jews being generally not welcome in said Muslim majority countries. The Jews that do remain, are more often than not reduced to a Dhimmi status.

Yep, Islam is a problem and when one imports Muslims one will import anti-Semitism.

[Infected Mushroom]

Before we jump to the conclusion that anti-antisemitism is on the rise, I think we need to examine what the group that made the survey consider antisemitic. There are lots of groups that say that being unfavorable to Israel is anti-antisemitism.

The respondents are presented with these eleven statements:

Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in]
Jews have too much power in the business world
Jews have too much power in international financial markets
Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust
Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind
Jews have too much control over global affairs
Jews have too much control over the United States government
Jews think they are better than other people
Jews have too much control over the global media
Jews are responsible for most of the world's wars
People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave

Those who respond "probably true" (the possible responses are "probably true" and "probably false") to at least 6 of the 11 are considered "anti-semitic" for the purposes of the survey.

hey I would have said ''probably true'' to at least 6 of these and yet I don't see myself as ''anti-semetic.'' Also, a ''probably true'' to most of these I would contend isn't by itself indicative of prejudice against Jews. For example, you can concede that Jews may be over-represented in business and thus answer ''probably true'' to the second and third propositions without this being indicative that you think this is a bad thing or that this is something that needs to be changed.

I'd also say its impossible not to say ''probably true'' to ''Jews think they are better than other people'' if you consider that the majority of them claim to be God's Chosen People. There may be nothing wrong with that and I might not think there's anything wrong with that even if I agree with a specific reading of the general headline. Again, I'm not the one attaching a negative anti-semetic slant to this answer, the questionnaire is.

Yup this is heavily loaded.

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

I wonder if that means a return of fascism.

[United Marxist Nations]

I wonder if that means a return of fascism.

Not really, that's quite a jump.

[Geilinor]

The respondents are presented with these eleven statements:

Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in]
Jews have too much power in the business world
Jews have too much power in international financial markets
Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust
Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind
Jews have too much control over global affairs
Jews have too much control over the United States government
Jews think they are better than other people
Jews have too much control over the global media
Jews are responsible for most of the world's wars
People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave

Those who respond "probably true" (the possible responses are "probably true" and "probably false") to at least 6 of the 11 are considered "anti-semitic" for the purposes of the survey.

hey I would have said ''probably true'' to at least 6 of these and yet I don't see myself as ''anti-semetic.'' Also, a ''probably true'' to most of these I would contend isn't by itself indicative of prejudice against Jews. For example, you can concede that Jews may be over-represented in business and thus answer ''probably true'' to the second and third propositions without this being indicative that you think this is a bad thing or that this is something that needs to be changed.

Yup this is heavily loaded.

You're misinterpreting some of the questions. It doesn't say "Jews are over-represented in business", it says "Jews have too much influence in business". "Too much" implies a belief that it should be changed.

[Shilya]

As a Jew, this makes me feel uncomfortable. I did not think almost 1/4 of the world did not like me!

No need to, because 1/4 of the world doesn't automatically dislike you.

The largest part of those doesn't mind the individual. What they dislike is the abstract idea of a stereotypical jew, in some cases maybe alternatively Israel as a country, or its government, but still not the individual.

You can also bet that a good deal of them would tell you with a straight face that you're so nice and not like "those other jews" without even realizing how offensive that is. Is that a problem? Yes, but that's not anti-semitism per se, that's scapegoating.

Sure, there are those who'd actively hate you, but that's true for every religion or lack of religion. Can't help those.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

I wonder if that means a return of fascism.

Have you ever made a single fucking post in which you didn't make a conspiracy theory about Fascism, or call everybody around you a Fascist/Nazi?

1: Fascism is capitalized.
2: Fascism isn't antisemitic.
3: Stop making conspiracy theories.

[The New Sea Territory]

I wonder if that means a return of fascism.

Have you ever made a single fucking post in which you didn't make a conspiracy theory about Fascism, or call everybody around you a Fascist/Nazi?

1: Fascism is capitalized.
2: Fascism isn't antisemitic.
3: Stop making conspiracy theories.

Yeah! I couldn't care less about Fascism or any of it's principles, but at least capitalize it!

[Persivis]

As a Jew, this makes me feel uncomfortable. I did not think almost 1/4 of the world did not like me!

No need to, because 1/4 of the world doesn't automatically dislike you.

The largest part of those doesn't mind the individual. What they dislike is the abstract idea of a stereotypical jew, in some cases maybe alternatively Israel as a country, or its government, but still not the individual.

You can also bet that a good deal of them would tell you with a straight face that you're so nice and not like "those other jews" without even realizing how offensive that is. Is that a problem? Yes, but that's not anti-semitism per se, that's scapegoating.

Sure, there are those who'd actively hate you, but that's true for every religion or lack of religion. Can't help those.

That's the exact kind of hatred that existed in Nazi Germany. Very few Germans really hated Jews before the Nazis came, but all that stereotypical hatred was easily crafted into what it became.

[Persivis]

The respondents are presented with these eleven statements:

Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in]
Jews have too much power in the business world
Jews have too much power in international financial markets
Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust
Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind
Jews have too much control over global affairs
Jews have too much control over the United States government
Jews think they are better than other people
Jews have too much control over the global media
Jews are responsible for most of the world's wars
People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave

Those who respond "probably true" (the possible responses are "probably true" and "probably false") to at least 6 of the 11 are considered "anti-semitic" for the purposes of the survey.

hey I would have said ''probably true'' to at least 6 of these and yet I don't see myself as ''anti-semetic.'' Also, a ''probably true'' to most of these I would contend isn't by itself indicative of prejudice against Jews. For example, you can concede that Jews may be over-represented in business and thus answer ''probably true'' to the second and third propositions without this being indicative that you think this is a bad thing or that this is something that needs to be changed.

I'd also say its impossible not to say ''probably true'' to ''Jews think they are better than other people'' if you consider that the majority of them claim to be God's Chosen People. There may be nothing wrong with that and I might not think there's anything wrong with that even if I agree with a specific reading of the general headline. Again, I'm not the one attaching a negative anti-semetic slant to this answer, the questionnaire is.

Yup this is heavily loaded.

Which ones? I couldn't see myself saying yes to much of any of them.

[Infected Mushroom]

hey I would have said ''probably true'' to at least 6 of these and yet I don't see myself as ''anti-semetic.'' Also, a ''probably true'' to most of these I would contend isn't by itself indicative of prejudice against Jews. For example, you can concede that Jews may be over-represented in business and thus answer ''probably true'' to the second and third propositions without this being indicative that you think this is a bad thing or that this is something that needs to be changed.

Yup this is heavily loaded.

You're misinterpreting some of the questions. It doesn't say "Jews are over-represented in business", it says "Jews have too much influence in business". "Too much" implies a belief that it should be changed.

Average answer reasoning:
''It seems to be the case (though of course I could be wrong) that the proportion of successful Jews in business is probably higher than what their relative proportion to the world's entire population would suggest, thus resulting in some over-representation. 'It should be changed in the sense that preferably there should be more equal representation in business if we can achieve it but if we can't without huge social disruptions or undue discrimination (and we probably can't) we are just going to have to accept that some groups do better than others (and therefore I wouldn't argue for some kind of new anti-Jewish business policy)?''

I think that's how the majority would justify their answer to the question with ''probably true'' if they were articulate enough.

Also, would you consider a ''probably true'' answer to ''the rich have too much money'' to be classist?

Probably not. So why is a ''probably yes'' answer to this question unconditionally interpreted as moving you closer to the label of being Anti-Semetic? What if you just think that any type of concentration of wealth in a certain ethnic group (doesn't have to be jewish but you think jewish is one real example) is bad (but that while this is true in consideration of other principles you wouldn't advocate some discriminatory new measure)?

just seems like a bit of a blunt instrument of a survey to me...

[Shilya]

No need to, because 1/4 of the world doesn't automatically dislike you.

The largest part of those doesn't mind the individual. What they dislike is the abstract idea of a stereotypical jew, in some cases maybe alternatively Israel as a country, or its government, but still not the individual.

You can also bet that a good deal of them would tell you with a straight face that you're so nice and not like "those other jews" without even realizing how offensive that is. Is that a problem? Yes, but that's not anti-semitism per se, that's scapegoating.

Sure, there are those who'd actively hate you, but that's true for every religion or lack of religion. Can't help those.

That's the exact kind of hatred that existed in Nazi Germany. Very few Germans really hated Jews before the Nazis came, but all that stereotypical hatred was easily crafted into what it became.

I swear, the Nazis were aliens.

That said, it's still scapegoating. That could have been any group. Times were bad enough that the people would, indeed have taken any group, so long as it gives them a reachable target for their problems.

Repeat this survey with "the christians", "the muslims", "the chinese", "the whites", "the americans", etc and check just how many such scapegoats you will end up with. The average guy will readily take any scapegoat you offer him, depending on his background.

[Persivis]

''It seems to be the case (though of course I could be wrong) that the proportion of successful Jews in business is probably higher than what their relative proportion to the world's entire population would suggest, thus resulting in some over-representation. 'It should be changed in the sense that preferably there should be more equal representation in business if we can achieve it but if we can't without huge social disruptions we are just going to have to accept that some groups do better than others (and therefore I wouldn't argue for some kind of new anti-Jewish business policy)?''
I think that's how the majority would justify their answer to the question with ''probably true'' if they were articulate enough.

And it would be anti-Semitic, because when you use that statement it implies something about it is unfair, that Jewish people didn't deserve to get there. You are essentially saying they happen to have their position simply because of their Jewishness. That is anti-Semitic.

Also, would you consider a ''probably true'' answer to ''the rich have too much money'' to be classist?

There is a pretty big difference, and it would really only be classist if you assumed the rich were terrible people simply for being rich, or got there unfairly. Acknowledging that massive income inequality is a problem is not classist.

Probably not. So why is a ''probably yes'' answer to this question unconditionally interpreted moving you closer to the label of being Anti-Semetic? What if you just think that any type of concentration of wealth in a certain ethnic group (doesn't have to be jewish but you think jewish is one real example) is bad (but that while this is true in consideration of other principles you wouldn't advocate some discriminatory new measure)?

Because that is how it starts. Most genocides don't begin with a massive hatred amongst everyone for a minority. That was how it was during medieval times, but that stopped being the case as the world became global. The Holocaust, the Japanese Holocaust in China, the mass murder of Stalin all resulted from the exploitation of a stereotype.

just seems like a bit of a blunt instrument of a survey to me...

[/quote]
Do you think if people went around asking "do you hate Jews?" anti-Semites would answer honestly?

[Olthar]

Only 24%? That's pretty good considering history.

[Persivis]

That's the exact kind of hatred that existed in Nazi Germany. Very few Germans really hated Jews before the Nazis came, but all that stereotypical hatred was easily crafted into what it became.

I swear, the Nazis were aliens.

That said, it's still scapegoating. That could have been any group. Times were bad enough that the people would, indeed have taken any group, so long as it gives them a reachable target for their problems.

Repeat this survey with "the christians", "the muslims", "the chinese", "the whites", "the americans", etc and check just how many such scapegoats you will end up with. The average guy will readily take any scapegoat you offer him, depending on his background.

That doesn't make it okay, though, now does it. All irrational hatred and stereotyping should end, as far off into the future that is.

Genocidal dictators will just grow to hate whatever is the largest or most convenient minority for them to convince people to hate, that I agree with you on.

[Llamalandia]

Pretty sure we already have this thread here:

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=295937&hilit=Jews+are+more+loyal+to

I think these need to be merged if I'm not too much mistaken.

[Shilya]

I swear, the Nazis were aliens.

That said, it's still scapegoating. That could have been any group. Times were bad enough that the people would, indeed have taken any group, so long as it gives them a reachable target for their problems.

Repeat this survey with "the christians", "the muslims", "the chinese", "the whites", "the americans", etc and check just how many such scapegoats you will end up with. The average guy will readily take any scapegoat you offer him, depending on his background.

That doesn't make it okay, though, now does it. All irrational hatred and stereotyping should end, as far off into the future that is.

Genocidal dictators will just grow to hate whatever is the largest or most convenient minority for them to convince people to hate, that I agree with you on.

It won't go away easily. It's part of what we are, for better or worse. It's not even necessarily a bad thing, because it has its root in our herd sense, so to speak - tribal instincts, defending our group against outside threats. Building a sense of community, of belonging together with your kind. That's a good thing, but it can be abused to exclude and persecute those that are not directly part of your community.

It doesn't only show itself on the grand scale. Sports fans, console wars, political parties and ideologies, same mechanism every time. Us against Them, group competition. Would it be nice if people could keep their sense of community without excluding irrationally? Sure, but that's unfortunatly just not how we are, we are emotional and irrational, we build ourselves idendities, seek out those with similar idendities and not those with different ones. Amplify one of those idendities with propaganda and you've got a recipy for disaster.