No dates? Shoot a bunch of people. Santa Barbara Drive By.

[Aethrys]

Back off the personal attacks, tone down the anger, and kindly check again, please.

Well you started it.

...

What.

I made a statement targeting some members of a group. That statement was to the effect that I found their behavior "Disgusting and dishonest". That group happened to be feminists.

You self identify as a feminist. Cool.

You choose, for some reason known only to you, to identify as the portion of the group I targeted with that statement, and manifest outrage/anger/badfeels because of that decision.

Had I said "All feminists are disgusting and dishonest" I could see your point.

[Des-Bal]

Cause and effect. Motive is everything in life. There must be a cause for everything which happens. To understand something which happened, you must understand what made it possible for it to occur in the first place.

Right but we're putting stock in what a crazy person says. In reality he probably doesn't know what his motivation was. He did it because he was fucking crazy whether he says it was because women didn't fuck him or because horses kept telling him to it doesn't matter because he was fucking crazy.

[CTALNH]

Well you started it.

...

What.

I made a statement targeting some members of a group. That statement was to the effect that I found their behavior "Disgusting and dishonest". That group happened to be feminists.

You self identify as a feminist. Cool.

You choose, for some reason known only to you, to identify as the portion of the group I targeted with that statement, and manifest outrage/anger/badfeels because of that decision.

Had I said "All feminists are disgusting and dishonest" I could see your point.

Oh who fucking cares lets move on.

Friends?

[Ostroeuropa]

Cause and effect. Motive is everything in life. There must be a cause for everything which happens. To understand something which happened, you must understand what made it possible for it to occur in the first place.

Right but we're putting stock in what a crazy person says. In reality he probably doesn't know what his motivation was. He did it because he was fucking crazy whether he says it was because women didn't fuck him or because horses kept telling him to it doesn't matter because he was fucking crazy.

This is a stance I can accept.

I can also accept the stance that he did it because he hated pretty much everyone, and he hated everyone because he was crazy.

The only stance that seems ideologically biased and nonsensical is
"He did it because he hated women."

We're seeing something extremely typical of a subset of the feminist movement.
Claiming to be the victim of something that, actually, a lot more than just women are the victim of. (But shhh. We're just going to acknowledge the women and act as though the others don't exist.)

It's propoganda, and it's disgusting. It's actually my major problem with the feminist movement.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The manifesto represents months of thought poured out onto a page. Parts of it are even a recounting of his life story as he saw it. He lists every slight that's ever been committed against him, and goes on and on about little things like his envy about others' cars or his treatment by his mother. He's not giving his motives for carrying out the attack, he's venting 20 years worth of grievances. The video was created within the context of him being less than 24 hours ahead of his planned attack, and he likely knew that it would have been found first, before the manifesto he sent to friends and family became public. That video represents him giving his 'summarized' (such as they were) motives and convictions ahead of what he had planned. It's a much better gauge of his mental state than a document carefully crafted over many weeks.

And if he went to Mcdonalds immediately beforehand would you feel comfortable saying Mcdonalds was the reason?
This kind of episode DOES take months of stewing and such.
I'm way more inclined to take his manifesto as the reasoning, rather than one video.

You know, like we would for basically any other psycho.
"Why did he do this? Oh look, a manifesto."
But I guess to be consistent here would be inconvinient for the narrative.

I didn't know there was a manifesto, so that was my slipup in not keeping up with the story.

I found the source, and I'm reading it. So, I'll be more willing to go on that because those are his last thoughts he wanted to be disseminated.

[Aethrys]

...

What.

I made a statement targeting some members of a group. That statement was to the effect that I found their behavior "Disgusting and dishonest". That group happened to be feminists.

You self identify as a feminist. Cool.

You choose, for some reason known only to you, to identify as the portion of the group I targeted with that statement, and manifest outrage/anger/badfeels because of that decision.

Had I said "All feminists are disgusting and dishonest" I could see your point.

Oh who fucking cares lets move on.

Friends?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/56213/1393898-blue_buccaneer_09.2.jpg

[Sacarap]

I blame America culture that has infested us with the sense that, if you aren't always having sex and hooking up, you are inferior.
The man is a lunatic but, with all the truimphalist "aftersex" selfies, and shallow hook-up culture, this tragedy was inevitable.

I blame Russia for this.

[Shie]

He killed more men than women, oddly enough. I don't think he was a misogynist, I don't think he actually hated women. He just hated being rejected by women.

[Ostroeuropa]

And if he went to Mcdonalds immediately beforehand would you feel comfortable saying Mcdonalds was the reason?
This kind of episode DOES take months of stewing and such.
I'm way more inclined to take his manifesto as the reasoning, rather than one video.

You know, like we would for basically any other psycho.
"Why did he do this? Oh look, a manifesto."
But I guess to be consistent here would be inconvinient for the narrative.

I didn't know there was a manifesto, so that was my slipup in not keeping up with the story.

I found the source, and I'm reading it. So, I'll be more willing to go on that because those are his last thoughts he wanted to be disseminated.

It's no problem man. News moves on, we can't be 100% up to date.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Pretty much. And I admit that I'm not making it - at least - an anti-feminist issue.

I've said it clear from the onset I think the kid was a self-centered douche.

So have I.
I'm just pointing out that the people who are using this to attack the MRA are missing a lot of important information.

True, and in fact, this isn't as much of a MRA issue or even a feminist issue.

There's more to it than that - that the kid was both out of his mind and that he grew up spoiled and with access to almost every thing. It says as much about the mental healthcare in America as much as his parents spoiling him too much (I mean 300 dollar sunglasses and a BMW and still bitching? I'd have put my son in line - were I to have one - and would have told him to get the fuck over it).

[Ostroeuropa]

So have I.
I'm just pointing out that the people who are using this to attack the MRA are missing a lot of important information.

True, and in fact, this isn't as much of a MRA issue or even a feminist issue.

There's more to it than that - that the kid was both out of his mind and that he grew up spoiled and with access to almost every thing. It says as much about the mental healthcare in America as much as his parents spoiling him too much (I mean 300 dollar sunglasses and a BMW and still bitching? I'd have put my son in line - were I to have one - and would have told him to get the fuck over it; he'll find someone).

We should be more enraged at the state, who consistently failed to institutionalize a psychotic who refused to take his medication, owned guns, and kept issueing death threats.
The police and psychologists WERE involved and aware of his case, and were aware of the particulars.

In that context, he's a victim of state incompetence as much as the victims of his shooting are victims of his psychosis.

[Neutraligon]

True, and in fact, this isn't as much of a MRA issue or even a feminist issue.

There's more to it than that - that the kid was both out of his mind and that he grew up spoiled and with access to almost every thing. It says as much about the mental healthcare in America as much as his parents spoiling him too much (I mean 300 dollar sunglasses and a BMW and still bitching? I'd have put my son in line - were I to have one - and would have told him to get the fuck over it; he'll find someone).

We should be more enraged at the state, who consistently failed to institutionalize a psychotic who refused to take his medication, owned guns, and kept issueing death threats.
The police and psychologists WERE involved and aware of his case, and were aware of the particulars.

In that context, he's a victim of state incompetence as much as the victims of his shooting are victims of his psychosis.

If he was not diagnosed (assuming he was mentally ill), what would prevent him from getting a gun

[Ostroeuropa]

We should be more enraged at the state, who consistently failed to institutionalize a psychotic who refused to take his medication, owned guns, and kept issueing death threats.
The police and psychologists WERE involved and aware of his case, and were aware of the particulars.

In that context, he's a victim of state incompetence as much as the victims of his shooting are victims of his psychosis.

If he was not diagnosed (assuming he was mentally ill), what would prevent him from getting a gun

I've heard he was diagnosed, and was in contact with therapists, was unmedicated for psychosis, and that the police had spoken to him about his video threats. I'll edit in sources soon.
You would be surprised (Or disgusted) about just how few of the "Paper Crimes" of owning a gun that you aren't allowed to own are actually followed up on. Gun control simply isn't enforced as it is. It's one of the best arguments the anti-gun control legislation people actually have.



Source for police knowing about the threats:
http://laist.com/2014/05/24/what_we_kno ... ger_th.php

An attorney representing Rodger's family said that law enforcement contacted after they expressed concern over this YouTube videos found him to be "polite and kind" after they talked with Rodger and took no further action, according to ABC News. The attorney also said that Rodger was enrolled at Santa Barbara City College, and was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome and being treated by "multiple therapists." A social worker had also contacted police about Rodger just last week. The family of Rodger wished to send their "deepest condolences" to the families of the victims at this time.

Know what?
The psychosis source has retracted. This is still an evolving story. Consider that ammended.

[Euthenian Commonwealth]

Sociopath lost it. There's really not much more to it, in my opinion. I'm glad that seems to be the general feeling of the thread...

[Grenartia]

The motivations of a murder isn't the same as the victims.

If you want to argue over "5 out of 7 victims were male!" is the same as "2 our of 7 victims were female!". The factual evidence is irrelevant because he went on a mass shooting spree, it wasn't a concerted attempt. The big question is: why did he lose his shit like he did?

That happens when your a deranged asshole and don't take your medication!

Except, you know, there's no evidence that he was diagnosed with anything you should take meds for, much less that he was even prescribed meds. At least none that's public, as far as I'm aware.

Even though 5/7 of the victims were male.
Sure.
That's not stupid ideological bias at all.

He was conducting the attack whilst driving around in a car - it seems more likely that he was firing randomly into crowds and hit who he did by chance alone. It doesn't seem as though he had any formal gun training (AFAIK), so it's not as though he could have easily hit who he wanted anyway.

Exactly.

Secondly, the information that he was subscribed to MRA's seems absolutely false.
He was subscribed to PUA's.

If you check his channel, you will not find him subscribed to an MRA or MRM channel.
So why is it that people are pushing the idea that he was?

What has happened here is one huge excercise in ideological bias and blindness coming from some of the feminist crowd, and a lot of you just swallow it up because it fits with your ideology.
How many of you actually fact checked the articles.

Several of them claim he was white.
That's somewhat misleading. He's Eurasian.
But again, it fits in with the ideological bias, so they don't check.

Eurasian really fits just about everything from white to dark-skinned if you are going to go over race.

And what does race really have to do with any of this. Is it now less relevant because he's not white? I'd have come to the same conclusions if he was a black man or an asian person.

Also, the reason people are claiming he's an MRA is because he's spouting their bullshit. You don't have to subscribe to a group's youtube channels to follow their thinking. I'm a Christian, yet I'm not subscribed on Youtube to any Christian channels. I'm a socialist, yet I'm not subscribed to any socialist channels. I'm pro-LGBT equality, yet I'm not subscribed to any LGBT channels.

Bold/Underlined shows why your argument is shakey.
If he had one video and a much shorter manifesto?
Sure. I'd be comfortable saying we know his motives.
He doesn't, and we don't.

The manifesto represents months of thought poured out onto a page. Parts of it are even a recounting of his life story as he saw it. He lists every slight that's ever been committed against him, and goes on and on about little things like his envy about others' cars or his treatment by his mother. He's not giving his motives for carrying out the attack, he's venting 20 years worth of grievances. The video was created within the context of him being less than 24 hours ahead of his planned attack, and he likely knew that it would have been found first, before the manifesto he sent to friends and family became public. That video represents him giving his 'summarized' (such as they were) motives and convictions ahead of what he had planned. It's a much better gauge of his mental state than a document carefully crafted over many weeks.

Exactly.

I'm sure you would have. But the point is, they are trying to make him a poster child for anti-feminism for propoganda purposes, or because they subconsciously want to do so, and many of you are eating it up.

If there were any other indicators that this was about something else entirely, and that his conflicts with society and humanity in general were more zeroed in on a specific issue [other than getting laid] I would veer my target towards that.

However, so far there's not much other reason to say the least. Unless I'm missing something on his videos.

Obviously you are missing something, because the all-powerful feminazi hivemind is hiding the truth. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

I'm a little confused as to why we've decided his motivations matter.

Cause and effect. Motive is everything in life. There must be a cause for everything which happens. To understand something which happened, you must understand what made it possible for it to occur in the first place.

That, and we need to understand why it happened in order to prevent it from happening again.

To say that its pointless to try to understand this entitled asshat's motivations is like saying its pointless to understand why a plane crashed and killed all the passengers and crew onboard. In both cases, the system failed to prevent a tragedy, and the only way the system can prevent a recurrence is to study the causes of the tragedy.

The manifesto represents months of thought poured out onto a page. Parts of it are even a recounting of his life story as he saw it. He lists every slight that's ever been committed against him, and goes on and on about little things like his envy about others' cars or his treatment by his mother. He's not giving his motives for carrying out the attack, he's venting 20 years worth of grievances. The video was created within the context of him being less than 24 hours ahead of his planned attack, and he likely knew that it would have been found first, before the manifesto he sent to friends and family became public. That video represents him giving his 'summarized' (such as they were) motives and convictions ahead of what he had planned. It's a much better gauge of his mental state than a document carefully crafted over many weeks.

And if he went to Mcdonalds immediately beforehand would you feel comfortable saying Mcdonalds was the reason?
This kind of episode DOES take months of stewing and such.
I'm way more inclined to take his manifesto as the reasoning, rather than one video.

You know, like we would for basically any other psycho.
"Why did he do this? Oh look, a manifesto."
But I guess to be consistent here would be inconvinient for the narrative.

If he used his stop at McDonalds to start ranting about why he was doing what he was about to do, and included McDonalds in said rant, then yes. I would feel comfortable saying McDonalds was a reason.

Basically, this asshat's last video is a video tl;dr for people who wouldn't read the manifesto.

He killed more men than women, oddly enough. I don't think he was a misogynist, I don't think he actually hated women. He just hated being rejected by women.

Of course, the reason more men than women were killed is because he wasn't able to shoot up the sorority he originally wanted to shoot up. Also, you know, he was shooting people in establishments while he was driving by. Not exactly conducive to picking and choosing your targets.

Also, are you going to respond to my last post, or not?

[Ostroeuropa]

Also, the reason people are claiming he's an MRA is because he's spouting their bullshit. You don't have to subscribe to a group's youtube channels to follow their thinking. I'm a Christian, yet I'm not subscribed on Youtube to any Christian channels. I'm a socialist, yet I'm not subscribed to any socialist channels. I'm pro-LGBT equality, yet I'm not subscribed to any LGBT channels.

Citation for what's he's spouting being MRA bullshit.
Go ahead.
Which MRA site or reddit or subforum or whatever has ever endorsed his positions.

You think a PUA is an MRA.
That's because you have your ideological blinders on.
You think anyone who hates women is an MRA. That's a problem.

[Neutraligon]

If he was not diagnosed (assuming he was mentally ill), what would prevent him from getting a gun

I've heard he was diagnosed, and was in contact with therapists, was unmedicated for psychosis, and that the police had spoken to him about his video threats. I'll edit in sources soon.
You would be surprised (Or disgusted) about just how few of the "Paper Crimes" of owning a gun that you aren't allowed to own are actually followed up on. Gun control simply isn't enforced as it is. It's one of the best arguments the anti-gun control legislation people actually have.



Source for police knowing about the threats:
http://laist.com/2014/05/24/what_we_kno ... ger_th.php

An attorney representing Rodger's family said that law enforcement contacted after they expressed concern over this YouTube videos found him to be "polite and kind" after they talked with Rodger and took no further action, according to ABC News. The attorney also said that Rodger was enrolled at Santa Barbara City College, and was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome and being treated by "multiple therapists." A social worker had also contacted police about Rodger just last week. The family of Rodger wished to send their "deepest condolences" to the families of the victims at this time.

Know what?
The psychosis source has retracted. This is still an evolving story. Consider that ammended.

OK, that just means those laws need to be enacted better.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've heard he was diagnosed, and was in contact with therapists, was unmedicated for psychosis, and that the police had spoken to him about his video threats. I'll edit in sources soon.
You would be surprised (Or disgusted) about just how few of the "Paper Crimes" of owning a gun that you aren't allowed to own are actually followed up on. Gun control simply isn't enforced as it is. It's one of the best arguments the anti-gun control legislation people actually have.



Source for police knowing about the threats:
http://laist.com/2014/05/24/what_we_kno ... ger_th.php



Know what?
The psychosis source has retracted. This is still an evolving story. Consider that ammended.

OK, that just means those laws need to be enacted better.

I agree.

[Dakini]

The motivations of a murder isn't the same as the victims.

If you want to argue over "5 out of 7 victims were male!" is the same as "2 our of 7 victims were female!". The factual evidence is irrelevant because he went on a mass shooting spree, it wasn't a concerted attempt. The big question is: why did he lose his shit like he did?

There was an attempt... he banged on the door of a sorority for a few minutes and nobody let him in (wisely). His plan was to go and shoot the place up. If the women living there had answered the door, there would be a much bigger body count (and probably a lot more women dead).

[Neutraligon]

OK, that just means those laws need to be enacted better.

I agree.

Although, this wasn't "just" a shooting rampage. He did use other weapons, so then, should those laws extend to other weapons?

[Ostroeuropa]

The motivations of a murder isn't the same as the victims.

If you want to argue over "5 out of 7 victims were male!" is the same as "2 our of 7 victims were female!". The factual evidence is irrelevant because he went on a mass shooting spree, it wasn't a concerted attempt. The big question is: why did he lose his shit like he did?

There was an attempt... he banged on the door of a sorority for a few minutes and nobody let him in (wisely). His plan was to go and shoot the place up. If the women living there had answered the door, there would be a much bigger body count (and probably a lot more women dead).

Can I have a source for that?

[Condunum]

The motivations of a murder isn't the same as the victims.

If you want to argue over "5 out of 7 victims were male!" is the same as "2 our of 7 victims were female!". The factual evidence is irrelevant because he went on a mass shooting spree, it wasn't a concerted attempt. The big question is: why did he lose his shit like he did?

There was an attempt... he banged on the door of a sorority for a few minutes and nobody let him in (wisely). His plan was to go and shoot the place up. If the women living there had answered the door, there would be a much bigger body count (and probably a lot more women dead).

So because this could have been a bunch of women being killed by a man who's motive is still primarily his insanity, this is a problem about Women Hating(?) and not something else?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The motivations of a murder isn't the same as the victims.

If you want to argue over "5 out of 7 victims were male!" is the same as "2 our of 7 victims were female!". The factual evidence is irrelevant because he went on a mass shooting spree, it wasn't a concerted attempt. The big question is: why did he lose his shit like he did?

There was an attempt... he banged on the door of a sorority for a few minutes and nobody let him in (wisely). His plan was to go and shoot the place up. If the women living there had answered the door, there would be a much bigger body count (and probably a lot more women dead).

Ah.

Well, considering he posted his plan on YOUTUBE, doesn't surprise me they were warned.

[Condunum]

I agree.

Although, this wasn't "just" a shooting rampage. He did use other weapons, so then, should those laws extend to other weapons?

Actually, you know what? Yes.

I own knifes. Big ones. A 10 inch survival knife is not something that should be handled by anyone, because you will lob a finger off. Or someone else's.

[Neutraligon]

Although, this wasn't "just" a shooting rampage. He did use other weapons, so then, should those laws extend to other weapons?

Actually, you know what? Yes.

I own knifes. Big ones. A 10 inch survival knife is not something that should be handled by anyone, because you will lob a finger off. Or someone else's.

The same for cars? As far as I am aware, there is no law preventing those who are diagnosed with a mental illness from getting a drivers license.