UKIP 'Diversity Carnival' Croydon - A total disaster?

[Nierr]

I'd be interested to see where those numbers come from, and what they actually mean.

What's a 'native Brit' in that model?

Source

A native Brit is someone who can trace their heritage in whole or in part to people born in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

So by native Brits you meant white Brits, ignoring the fact that most black British people are at least second or third generation.

Racist much?

[Alyakia]

So basically a bunch of social justice warriors ruin an event. I'm no fan of UKIP, but the constant braying that they are racist simply doesn't hold water.

This. I am fed up with lefties constantly using the same old excuse that they are racist. I wish they would come up with something new to say about UKIP.

well shit maybe UKIP should come up with some policies that aren't fuck immigrants (and maybe the gays as well) then people would have other things to say

e: oh and stop talking about how weird it makes you feel when people talk foreign on the train, how lots of kids in school speak english as their second language (including your own children, but you "know" the difference between good germans and romanians, right?) yeah stop doing that farage.

[Alyakia]

That's a tad exaggerated, your point about the stone-age. All I'm saying is, it'll lead to expenses that the people of Great-Britain could do without at the moment, if you hadn't noticed - we're just at the back-end of a recession, I don't think now's the best time to take spending-power from the people and restricting labour for the Corporate bodies that rely heavily upon foreign workers.

Also, I fail to see your point about demographic alteration. In Scotland, minorities only make up 4% of the population and 12.9% of the population in the UK as a whole, so even if you leave immigration unrestricted, it would take decades to see a significant change in the percentages. Even if there was a significant change, chances are - by the time the balance had change, a majority of the ethnic minorities would've have been assimilated into the culture of Great Britain and adapted to it's norms, as I've seen with Eastern Europeans, Koreans and Africans.

12.9%. What was it before WWII? Negligible. According to demographers native Brits will be in a minority by the middle of this century. I would call that a massive demographic alteration.

do you have actual stats for that?

i hate to do the old "colonize 1/4 of the world, complain about immigrants" line but honestly get real

[Alyakia]

Yes, because interrupting a peaceful gathering with violent rhetoric and obnoxious shouting is completely a progressive, tolerant thing to do. I'm so glad that a victory was accomplish for such progressive and tolerant people such as yourself.

lol

1) this is about a band voluntarily choosing not to play. i don't think you actually read the article and just came in to try and erect upon which to crucify yourself and UKIP with the cruel nails of political, correctness and gone mad.
2) yes counter-protests are thing get used to it. welcome to democracy.

[The UK in Exile]

I got their manifesto through my letterbox today. On social issues, they wrote, unselfconsciously, I think:

"Political correctness is killing free speech".

Does that sound like Not-Racism to you?

The " political correctness" being addressed is the concept of suppressing opinions because the do not fit a set ideology, which from a person who is not even that politically incorrect, I find disgusting.

well, get a thicker skin, I suppose.

[Wind in the Willows]

The " political correctness" being addressed is the concept of suppressing opinions because the do not fit a set ideology, which from a person who is not even that politically incorrect, I find disgusting.

well, get a thicker skin, I suppose.

I think it is overly-political correct people that need to grow a thicker skin.

[Wind in the Willows]

This. I am fed up with lefties constantly using the same old excuse that they are racist. I wish they would come up with something new to say about UKIP.

well shit maybe UKIP should come up with some policies that aren't fuck immigrants (and maybe the gays as well) then people would have other things to say

e: oh and stop talking about how weird it makes you feel when people talk foreign on the train, how lots of kids in school speak english as their second language (including your own children, but you "know" the difference between good germans and romanians, right?) yeah stop doing that farage.

Well shit maybe you should actually read their fucking policies first, you imbecile. They want to restrict Immigration to the ones that are coming here to contribute to the country instead of leeching off it. I welcome Immigrants that are coming to help the country, and can speak their own language if they wish, but should be expected to speak English for most things.

And before you start saying that Native Brits are leeching too, well you surely can guess that UKIP will bring in policies to stop that from happening, if they get power.

Source

A native Brit is someone who can trace their heritage in whole or in part to people born in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

So by native Brits you meant white Brits, ignoring the fact that most black British people are at least second or third generation.

Racist much?

Did you see the "in part" bit? No, you didn't, you just couldn't wait to use the race card, could you?

[Alyakia]

Well shit maybe you should actually read their fucking policies first, you imbecile. They want to restrict Immigration to the ones that are coming here to contribute to the country instead of leeching off it. I welcome Immigrants that are coming to help the country, and can speak their own language if they wish, but should be expected to speak English for most things.

And before you start saying that Native Brits are leeching too, well you surely can guess that UKIP will bring in policies to stop that from happening, if they get power.

i have read their "policies". outside of immigration they are barebones and what little content there is (perhaps this is because they, like most one issue parties...) is is completely laughable. yes, we'll stop gay marriage and get right on implementing that flat tax.

hmm. maybe they finally dropped their ridiclous "freeze the borders for 5 year policy". i can't find it on their page. all immigrants should have private healthcare, private health insurance and private education is pretty lol though. i hope you're rich enough to afford that. though having farages wife unable to live in the UK under his own policies would as always be hilarious.

anyway im on their what we stand for page right now

Return Power to the UK (fuck immigrants, fuck the EU)
Protect Our Borders (fuck immigrants, fuck the EU)
Rebuild Prosperity (fuck immigrants, fuck the EU, fuck foreign aid)
Safeguard Against Crime (yes, fuck the EU, we get it, standard right-wing TOUGH ON CRIME rhetoric)
Care And Support For All (fuck immigrants)
Free Speech and Democracy (political correctness gone maaaaaaaaaaaaad)

what a diverse range of policies. grammar schools, scrap HS2, frack like fuck and abolish the inheritance tax. i can count their non-EU/immigration related policies on one hand. ask a UKIP supporter on the street for their opinion of UKIPs grammar school policy to see how much this matters.

[Alyakia]

also, the fact that literally every single heading on their site (EU, borders, prosperity, crime, care and support, freedom and democracy) all without any exception have at least one bullet point dedicated to complaining about immigrants and foreigners is just a massive coincidence. UKIP has a large range of diverse policies, you see.

[Nierr]

Did you see the "in part" bit? No, you didn't, you just couldn't wait to use the race card, could you?

The equation of white Britons being the only true Britons, which the statement 'british people will be a minority in their own country by x year' makes, is playing the race card.

[Densaner]

Source

A native Brit is someone who can trace their heritage in whole or in part to people born in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

The article is called "white Britons to become minority by 2066". That doesn't bode well.

I'm a little wary of any set of statistics that divides the UK into 'native', 'white immigrant' and 'ethnic', to be honest - I'm not sure that 'white' skin is an important qualifier. I'm also not sure that 'Britons' have to be 'white' - which is one of the assumptions that the article seems to take as axiomatic.

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

[Alyakia]

The article is called "white Britons to become minority by 2066". That doesn't bode well.

I'm a little wary of any set of statistics that divides the UK into 'native', 'white immigrant' and 'ethnic', to be honest - I'm not sure that 'white' skin is an important qualifier. I'm also not sure that 'Britons' have to be 'white' - which is one of the assumptions that the article seems to take as axiomatic.

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

yes. japanese people are really racist. they'll declare that a person that has lived in japan their entire lives and has no other language or culture than japanese is not japanese is not really japanese if they ever find out they have korean parents/grandparents. please don't be the racist xenophobic island country that is slowly declining in power whose neighbours hate it.

[Densaner]

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

yes. japanese people are really racist. they'll declare that a person that has lived in japan their entire lives and has no other language or culture than japanese is not japanese is not really japanese if they ever find out they have korean parents/grandparents. please don't be the racist xenophobic island country that is slowly declining in power whose neighbours hate it.

So Israel is racist as well? Bibi wanting to declare Israel as a state for Jews only? So you think Japan is racist. So if a country stands up for its people and culture then they're automatically racist. Noted...

[Alyakia]

yes. japanese people are really racist. they'll declare that a person that has lived in japan their entire lives and has no other language or culture than japanese is not japanese is not really japanese if they ever find out they have korean parents/grandparents. please don't be the racist xenophobic island country that is slowly declining in power whose neighbours hate it.

So Israel is racist as well? Bibi wanting to declare Israel as a state for Jews only? So you think Japan is racist. So if a country stands up for its people and culture then they're automatically racist. Noted...

yes. israels jewish state policy is extremely racist. and yes japan is racist. it's literally world famous for how incredibly racist it is. i'm sorry that this appears to be news for you.

if a country declares that one race is supreme over the others in governance, then yes that is racist. it's literally based on race. it's nearly impossible to get any more racist than that.

[Densaner]

So Israel is racist as well? Bibi wanting to declare Israel as a state for Jews only? So you think Japan is racist. So if a country stands up for its people and culture then they're automatically racist. Noted...

yes. israels jewish state policy is extremely racist. and yes japan is racist. it's literally world famous for how incredibly racist it is. i'm sorry that this appears to be news for you.

if a country declares that one race is supreme over the others in governance, then yes that is racist. it's literally based on race. it's nearly impossible to get any more racist than that.

And the French language in Quebec and France? Both governments have laws supporting the primacy of the French language. Is that racist? Do you believe people/countries have no right whatsoever to maintain their cultural distinctiveness in language, culture or history?

[Alyakia]

yes. israels jewish state policy is extremely racist. and yes japan is racist. it's literally world famous for how incredibly racist it is. i'm sorry that this appears to be news for you.

if a country declares that one race is supreme over the others in governance, then yes that is racist. it's literally based on race. it's nearly impossible to get any more racist than that.

And the French language in Quebec and France? Both governments have laws supporting the primacy of the French language. Is that racist? Do you believe people/countries have no right whatsoever to maintain their cultural distinctiveness in language, culture or history?

woah, hold on there. there's a difference between protecting a minority culture from being destroyed by a majority culture and a majority culture suppressing a minority culture. france, in its quest for french supremacy, virtually destroyed the basque, breton, occitan, etc. speaking populations. as in, they literally beat children for daring to speak their own language. this is entirely different from the people who they just tried to exterminate trying to pass laws to prevent further linguistic atrophy. (it also means i don't give a shit if people write computer instead of ordinatuer or whatever, because really)

[New Connorstantinople]

The " political correctness" being addressed is the concept of suppressing opinions because the do not fit a set ideology, which from a person who is not even that politically incorrect, I find disgusting.

well, get a thicker skin, I suppose.

"Lel, u dont want yer freedums limited, fegt" Sorry, but the correct response to limitations on freedom regarding speech is not to just "suck it up".

[Densaner]

And the French language in Quebec and France? Both governments have laws supporting the primacy of the French language. Is that racist? Do you believe people/countries have no right whatsoever to maintain their cultural distinctiveness in language, culture or history?

woah, hold on there. there's a difference between protecting a minority culture from being destroyed by a majority culture and a majority culture suppressing a minority culture. france, in its quest for french supremacy, virtually destroyed the basque, breton, occitan, etc. speaking populations. as in, they literally beat children for daring to speak their own language. this is entirely different from the people who they just tried to exterminate trying to pass laws to prevent further linguistic atrophy. (it also means i don't give a shit if people write computer instead of ordinatuer or whatever, because really)

So if any country wishes to protect their language from foreign incursion. In the case of French by English then that's racist. Is there anything that's not racist to you?

[Grave_n_idle]

The article is called "white Britons to become minority by 2066". That doesn't bode well.

I'm a little wary of any set of statistics that divides the UK into 'native', 'white immigrant' and 'ethnic', to be honest - I'm not sure that 'white' skin is an important qualifier. I'm also not sure that 'Britons' have to be 'white' - which is one of the assumptions that the article seems to take as axiomatic.

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

I had no idea we were actually discussing Japan. Oh, wait... we're not.

[Densaner]

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

I had no idea we were actually discussing Japan. Oh, wait... we're not.

Of course not. UKIP is racist it is...

[Kelinfort]

woah, hold on there. there's a difference between protecting a minority culture from being destroyed by a majority culture and a majority culture suppressing a minority culture. france, in its quest for french supremacy, virtually destroyed the basque, breton, occitan, etc. speaking populations. as in, they literally beat children for daring to speak their own language. this is entirely different from the people who they just tried to exterminate trying to pass laws to prevent further linguistic atrophy. (it also means i don't give a shit if people write computer instead of ordinatuer or whatever, because really)

So if any country wishes to protect their language from foreign incursion. In the case of French by English then that's racist. Is there anything that's not racist to you?

It's not like English is going anywhere...in fact, it's growing to become the largest world language. If anything, it's expanding, not contracting.

[Alyakia]

woah, hold on there. there's a difference between protecting a minority culture from being destroyed by a majority culture and a majority culture suppressing a minority culture. france, in its quest for french supremacy, virtually destroyed the basque, breton, occitan, etc. speaking populations. as in, they literally beat children for daring to speak their own language. this is entirely different from the people who they just tried to exterminate trying to pass laws to prevent further linguistic atrophy. (it also means i don't give a shit if people write computer instead of ordinatuer or whatever, because really)

So if any country wishes to protect their language from foreign incursion. In the case of French by English then that's racist. Is there anything that's not racist to you?

that's not what i said. the french republic was built upon the aggressive linguistic extermination of other languages, and their language is in no way under any serious threat at all from people saying the word "computer" instead of the official french word, so if they whine about it they are paranoid hypocrites. whereas, if someone that speaks a language that france tried to exterminate wants to preserve their language, that's not racist.

if you can't understand why "trying to protect something is under no threat all from evil foreigners and their evil foreign words" and "trying to reverse centuries of discrimination and attacks on your language" are not the same then i guess this conversation will be forever a mystery for you.

[Grave_n_idle]

I had no idea we were actually discussing Japan. Oh, wait... we're not.

Of course not. UKIP is racist it is...

What on earth are you talking about?

In what way do you think that relates to the post you responded to, or the posts that went before? Are you under the impression that UKIP has something to do with Japan's population, or are you just hitting random buttons now?

[Alyakia]

So does that work for the Japanese for example? Another island country. Can people of African or European descent be as easily described as Japanese as someone from Tokyo or Yokohama who can trace their ancestry back into Japanese history? Note the foreign resident population of Japan is less than 2%. Japanese people are really racist it seems...

I had no idea we were actually discussing Japan. Oh, wait... we're not.

japan and china are the standard go to countries for people desperate to defend their white country dreams. are japan and china racist??? huh??? uh, yes...

[The Grim Reaper]

woah, hold on there. there's a difference between protecting a minority culture from being destroyed by a majority culture and a majority culture suppressing a minority culture. france, in its quest for french supremacy, virtually destroyed the basque, breton, occitan, etc. speaking populations. as in, they literally beat children for daring to speak their own language. this is entirely different from the people who they just tried to exterminate trying to pass laws to prevent further linguistic atrophy. (it also means i don't give a shit if people write computer instead of ordinatuer or whatever, because really)

So if any country wishes to protect their language from foreign incursion. In the case of French by English then that's racist. Is there anything that's not racist to you?

You are conflating an abstract desire to protect some culture with the security and safety of human beings.

I don't give two craps about your language - I was born in Sri Lanka and raised in Singapore, and I'll be damned if I demand anyone to speak Sinhala or Mandarin. I speak English, and I'm damn happy I do. I want to learn German at some point.

I don't give two craps about culture or what have you - I'm a non-denominational Christian, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I'm heterosexual, etc. etc.

I'm a minority in some of these things and in the majority in others. No-one gives a damn.

Do I agree that the French beating children from speaking another language is racist? Not necessarily - however, IMO efforts to restrict and control culture and language generally also relate to a need to force a certain diaspora to conform to a normative model of the state's ideal voting citizen, which does often include a preferred race which other races must strive to emulate.

Israel is racist for limiting the rights of non-Jewish inhabitants. Japan is racist for a culture of ingrained xenophobia reaching back throughout most of its history. Sri Lanka is racist for systematic genocide of the Tamil diaspora under the guise of counter-terrorism. Malaysia is racist for their (relatively recent, it may have changed since I last checked) propositions of Malay nationalism.

Is Canada racist? Not as far as I know, but it's not a field of interest for me. Quebec, I don't think so, because their obsession with French is PURELY cultural - and I don't give two shits about culture. They don't beat, harm, restrict the rights of people who are not born to French parents, who are not born into French culture, etc.

Is UKIP racist? I don't know - all I know is that Nigel Farage isn't fond of Romanians, and UKIP is scared of people that aren't 'British'.