Would you date a (post-op) transgender person?

[Death Metal]

"Regular woman."
That's more than a little offensive. :|

It's really not at all. Nor was it meant to be. Quit being so goddamned thin-skinned.

Regular means of the norm. Women who were born with XX sex chromosomes are of the norm.

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

[Doitsu-san]

Gender is defined solely by the self-identity of the individual in question.

And thus we enter the quickest, and easiest, way in which gender identity is bullshit. If gender identitiy is self-defined, then gender identity literally is meaningless. Labels only have meaning when they possess explanatory power. If gender is self-defined, then the labels of male and female become meaningless with regards to it. According to you, someone could possess traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make him male. And they'd be right. But someone could also take those same traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make her female. And she'd be right too, according to you. Someone could identidy as male due to traits X, Y, and Z. But someone could also identify as male, citing the exact opposite traits A, B, and C. What this does is it makes the issue of gender so muddled that when you call yourself male or female in terms of your gender, I have no idea what that means. It literally transforms the sentance "I am a woman" into "I am me", as that is the only information about you it communicates. It strips gender of all explanatory power, rendering it meaningless and nonsensical.

Thus, the self-identification argument for gender is absurd, and falls flat on it's face. Strike one.

This is beautiful. What defines gender is genetics, and that is that. Transgenders may be referred to as woman or man cordially, but the simple scientific reality is that you do not posses the genetic traits or the reproductive capabilities to qualify as one.

[Aurora Novus]

And how does one define traits as either being male or female? Are some traits more male or female than others? How many traits exactly does it take to make one male or female? What if someone possesses none of the triats which you would associate with males, but none the less protests vehementally that they are, in fact, male?

Then you get third genders.

You seem to have avoided my other questions. However, if you're saying there should be a gender for every possible combination of personality traits, while that's intellectual consistent, it's impractical. It would mean we have a literally endless stream of genders, based on the unique build of every person out there. Also, this still falls into the trap of rendering gender meaningless, by stripping it of explanatory power. Because if every term for a gender is unique, unless I have pre-existing knowledge of what your gender identity comprises, I have no way of knowing what you mean when you say "My gender is X".

Thus we enter the second way in which gender identity is bullshit. Strike two.

Also, it seems you take the position that gender and sex are, on some level, related. what if someone possesses none of the traits of a female physically, but identifies with the female gender none the less? Is this an accurate and truthful identification?

Yes. This would be a textbook case of a MtF transgender woman.

I agree with you in so far as someone who undergoes SRS, or someone who has a desire to change their body. But what of people who do not possess a female body, and do not want a female body, but none the less identify as female and demand people refer to them as "she/her"?

[Liriena]

And thus we enter the quickest, and easiest, way in which gender identity is bullshit. If gender identitiy is self-defined, then gender identity literally is meaningless. Labels only have meaning when they possess explanatory power. If gender is self-defined, then the labels of male and female become meaningless with regards to it. According to you, someone could possess traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make him male. And they'd be right. But someone could also take those same traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make her female. And she'd be right too, according to you. Someone could identidy as male due to traits X, Y, and Z. But someone could also identify as male, citing the exact opposite traits A, B, and C. What this does is it makes the issue of gender so muddled that when you call yourself male or female in terms of your gender, I have no idea what that means. It literally transforms the sentance "I am a woman" into "I am me", as that is the only information about you it communicates. It strips gender of all explanatory power, rendering it meaningless and nonsensical.

Thus, the self-identification argument for gender is absurd, and falls flat on it's face. Strike one.

which is why i think biological sex is the only thing we should focus on, I'm sure that has a more objective meter and more explanatory power no?

No, sorry. You don't get to pretend that gender dysphoria doesn't exist.

[Scholmeria]

Yes, because of course people have a habit of beginning a first date with "Excuse me, but will you allow me to examine your vulva in minute detail?".

Do, please tell me what is the reason why some strait dude is after a women? To experiance some love or sex or something else?

of course I would not ask any female person that but the motives of matinf with a female are clear.

And if it prooves being a man than force him to go away as possible.

[Liriena]

Trans* aren't quasi anything.

Your fantasies are not some objetively.

Fantasies? No.
Medical and legal consensus? Definitely.

[Olthar]

"Regular woman."
That's more than a little offensive. :|

It's really not at all. Nor was it meant to be. Quit being so goddamned thin-skinned.

Regular means of the norm. Women who were born with XX sex chromosomes are of the norm.

Because being called abnormal is totally fine and acceptable, and I have no right to complain about being marginalized.

[Dyakovo]

Surrogates, adoption, etc.

Good options, sure, but I want my own biological children without the hassle and money surrogates cost.

Plus, knowing someone used to be a man would be very odd. Don't think I would go through that.

A MtF trans* didn't "used to be a man".

[Ifreann]

Certain things, like the width of the shoulders, the hips, and the size of the hands are kinda hard to change, from my understanding. As in, they can't really be changed.

Maybe if someone started the sex change before puberty hit...I don't know.

We're talking overlapping bell curves of characteristics here, not all guys and girls being pooped out of single distinct moulds.

Babies aren't made with a mould? Then where do they come from?

[Pragia]

It's really not at all. Nor was it meant to be. Quit being so goddamned thin-skinned.

Regular means of the norm. Women who were born with XX sex chromosomes are of the norm.

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

[Scholmeria]

So, you don't want to be called out on misgendering transgender people, a practise that can actually have detrimental effects on their psyche?

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. If you can't be polite and respect other people's identity, then you don't get a pat on the back.

If they did not learn afer so many years of living in a society the cultural norms of the people where it lives than it is nobodys problem if it gets "hurt".

No, I wont if some shizofrenics start claiming that he is Jesus I would not respect his indentity i will call the medial.

[Aurora Novus]

And thus we enter the quickest, and easiest, way in which gender identity is bullshit. If gender identitiy is self-defined, then gender identity literally is meaningless. Labels only have meaning when they possess explanatory power. If gender is self-defined, then the labels of male and female become meaningless with regards to it. According to you, someone could possess traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make him male. And they'd be right. But someone could also take those same traits X, Y, and Z, and claim they make her female. And she'd be right too, according to you. Someone could identidy as male due to traits X, Y, and Z. But someone could also identify as male, citing the exact opposite traits A, B, and C. What this does is it makes the issue of gender so muddled that when you call yourself male or female in terms of your gender, I have no idea what that means. It literally transforms the sentance "I am a woman" into "I am me", as that is the only information about you it communicates. It strips gender of all explanatory power, rendering it meaningless and nonsensical.

Thus, the self-identification argument for gender is absurd, and falls flat on it's face. Strike one.

This is beautiful. What defines gender is genetics, and that is that. Transgenders may be referred to as woman or man cordially, but the simple scientific reality is that you do not posses the genetic traits or the reproductive capabilities to qualify as one.

...That was not my point at all. My point is that gender (as in, the psychological usage of gender, not the physical) is nonsensical. That was not to say that your gender is determined by your sex. Rather, I'm saying that since any traits can appear in anyone of any sex, we should do away with the idea of gender, and recognize reality for what it is; people of various sexes, with various mental traits. No "I'm a woman in a man's body", just "I'm a man with X, Y, and Z traits".

[Olthar]

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

And now we're unnatural, as well. Lovely.

[Scholmeria]

And?

Does his pussy looks like every normal? No.

That sentence doesn't even make grammatical sense, much less logical or factual.

"No true scotsman has a normal vagina" much?

Why is hurting the progressives if the average normal person want a normal pussy and not that is artifical?

You know the idea with being with a former man is disgusting.

[Eastern Equestria]

It's really not at all. Nor was it meant to be. Quit being so goddamned thin-skinned.

Regular means of the norm. Women who were born with XX sex chromosomes are of the norm.

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

No. Regular is such an inane term. It's mind-bottling that you people find it offensive in this context.

[Immoren]

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

And now we're unnatural, as well. Lovely.

Poor thing

[Pragia]

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

And now we're unnatural, as well. Lovely.

Tell me I'm wrong that a being with natural XX chromosomes is not the definition of a natural woman.

[The Rhomaion]

Yes, because of course people have a habit of beginning a first date with "Excuse me, but will you allow me to examine your vulva in minute detail?".

Do, please tell me what is the reason why some strait dude is after a women? To experiance some love or sex or something else?

of course I would not ask any female person that but the motives of matinf with a female are clear.

Not exclusively. Unless you really do befriend women with the sole intent of having sex with them one day, which would be bizarre and almost certainly unrewarding in the long term.

And if it prooves being a man than force him to go away as possible.

I believe I'm correct in arguing that someone who is of the female gender is considered by people who aren't transphobic to be female regardless of their biology; likewise someone with a vagina who considers themselves to be a woman is a woman, regardless of whether or not you think so.

People determine their own gender.

You know the idea with being with a former man is disgusting.

Not really, no. As long as I'm attracted to the person in question, and vice versa, then I have literally no problem with it whatsoever.

[Dyakovo]

So you make a point of telling your dates what your biological sex is?

If I were to date a transgender, that would be much appreciated.

If you were to date a trans* person, you'd make a point of telling them you're cishet?

[Nua Corda]

It's really not at all. Nor was it meant to be. Quit being so goddamned thin-skinned.

Regular means of the norm. Women who were born with XX sex chromosomes are of the norm.

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

Because that's stupid Tumblrshit. People need to quit getting offended at the drop of a hat. Seriously, the only person you're hurting by getting offended is you.

If someone actively says deliberately hateful things to you, targets you, persecutes you, or generally behaves like a bigot, fine. You get to kidneypunch them, or sue them for harassment, or whatever. But you don't get to get all butthurt and fly off the handle just because somebody uses regular, common, generally excepted English vocabulary, that just happens to not recognize an extremely tiny minority. That's not being hateful, that's not deliberately targeting someone, that's just using the language. We're not obligated to come up with and use special, unique words for every possible condition a person might have. It's pointless, and if your skin is so thin that you allow yourself to be hurt by that, that's your own damn fault.

[Death Metal]

Perhaps use XX/woman instead?

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

I know, that's why I'm proposing it to be used to designate women born with female bodies.

[Aurora Novus]

which is why i think biological sex is the only thing we should focus on, I'm sure that has a more objective meter and more explanatory power no?

No, sorry. You don't get to pretend that gender dysphoria doesn't exist.

Gender dysphoria deals with sex. It certainly exists, but I hold that gender dysphoria (that is, the discomfort and dissasociation of who you are in terms of your personality and behaviors with your biological sex) is a product of our current cultural climate. If we lived in a culture that did not conflate sex with one's gender, and indeed, did not even recognize gender as a thing, you would not have people experiencing this issue. Because there would no longer be an issue with holding X, Y, or Z traits while being physically male/female. People would embrace who they are physically, and be comfortable with who they are mentally, because they would see no contradiction between the two.

Gender dysphoria occurs because of a percieved contradiction between who you are mentally/behaviorally, and who you are physically. Remove the concept of gender, you remove the capacity for that specific percieved contradiction.

[Dyakovo]

being trans isn't a fantasy, if that's what you're getting at?

I am speaking about people who think they are something else.

Trans* don't think They're something They're not.

[Olthar]

And now we're unnatural, as well. Lovely.

Poor thing

I hope that's not sarcasm, Immy.

[Pragia]

Except that's the definition of natural woman.

I know, that's why I'm proposing it to be used to designate women born with female bodies.

An XX woman is the definition of a woman, why use a different word?