That's a bit further than it should go.
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by Roski » Thu May 15, 2014 4:46 pm
by Rio Cana » Thu May 15, 2014 4:47 pm
by Northwest Slobovia » Thu May 15, 2014 4:48 pm
Roski wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:I assume you mean "could" in the sense that "yes, it is hypothetically possible for the US to put soldiers in China by force" and not in the sense of "...and keep them their for any length of time, much less achieve any plausible military-political objective".
One bomb and the bubble China has pops!
by Oaledonia » Thu May 15, 2014 4:49 pm
The lovable PMT nation of hugs and chibi! Now with 75% more Hanyū!
Oaledonian wiki | Decoli Defense | Embassy | OAF Military InfoUnder construction
*POLITICALLY CONTENTIOUS STATEMENTS INTENSIFY*
by Roski » Thu May 15, 2014 4:50 pm
by Northwest Slobovia » Thu May 15, 2014 4:50 pm
by Roski » Thu May 15, 2014 4:50 pm
by Infected Mushroom » Thu May 15, 2014 4:50 pm
by Roski » Thu May 15, 2014 4:52 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Genivaria wrote:And Human Rights , they're kind of an important thing.
and the USA is such a good posterboard for both right?
I'm sure China wishes it had overseas facilities to torture its prisoners instead of domestic ones (like Guantanamo) because apparently that would put it on such higher moral ground...
and also wishes that it too also had a building of its own (where dozens of Senators and Congressmen can bicker, wheel and deal away and ''represent the people.'')
''Human rights'' and ''democracy'' are too often just a smoke screen for self-interested interventionism.
Its a ridiculous reason for trying to cause instability in the world in rallying countries against China (as you seem to be arguing).
I've visited China many many times and nothing's ever happened to me and I've never seen any human rights violations. I'm not saying they don't exist but the way some people talk about the country, its as if they think it is some kind of Stalinist police state.
by Roski » Thu May 15, 2014 4:54 pm
by Infected Mushroom » Thu May 15, 2014 4:56 pm
Roski wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
and the USA is such a good posterboard for both right?
I'm sure China wishes it had overseas facilities to torture its prisoners instead of domestic ones (like Guantanamo) because apparently that would put it on such higher moral ground...
and also wishes that it too also had a building of its own (where dozens of Senators and Congressmen can bicker, wheel and deal away and ''represent the people.'')
''Human rights'' and ''democracy'' are too often just a smoke screen for self-interested interventionism.
Its a ridiculous reason for trying to cause instability in the world in rallying countries against China (as you seem to be arguing).
I've visited China many many times and nothing's ever happened to me and I've never seen any human rights violations. I'm not saying they don't exist but the way some people talk about the country, its as if they think it is some kind of Stalinist police state.
Human rights exist somewhat here in the states though.
by Genivaria » Thu May 15, 2014 4:56 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Genivaria wrote:And Human Rights , they're kind of an important thing.
and the USA is such a good posterboard for both right?
I'm sure China wishes it had overseas facilities to torture its prisoners instead of domestic ones (like Guantanamo) because apparently that would put it on such higher moral ground...
and also wishes that it too also had a building of its own (where dozens of Senators and Congressmen can bicker, wheel and deal away and ''represent the people.'')
''Human rights'' and ''democracy'' are too often just a smoke screen for self-interested interventionism.
Its a ridiculous reason for trying to cause instability in the world in rallying countries against China (as you seem to be arguing).
I've visited China many many times and nothing's ever happened to me and I've never seen any human rights violations. I'm not saying they don't exist but the way some people talk about the country, its as if they think it is some kind of Stalinist police state.
by Genivaria » Thu May 15, 2014 4:59 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Roski wrote:
Human rights exist somewhat here in the states though.
yeah but even in the US I am sure the government has ways to make you disappear if you cause too much trouble.
isn't it just the same in China? Except its easier for their government to do it because their legal system is less advanced and their system a bit less transparent?
Why is this line drawn where human rights ''exist'' in the US but not in China, when it is the case in both societies that most of the time your rights are respected unless in the extraordinary situation where you cause some kind of serious trouble against the government (ex terrorist suspicions in the US or anti-CPC sympathies in China)?
by Infected Mushroom » Thu May 15, 2014 5:00 pm
Genivaria wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
and the USA is such a good posterboard for both right?
I'm sure China wishes it had overseas facilities to torture its prisoners instead of domestic ones (like Guantanamo) because apparently that would put it on such higher moral ground...
and also wishes that it too also had a building of its own (where dozens of Senators and Congressmen can bicker, wheel and deal away and ''represent the people.'')
''Human rights'' and ''democracy'' are too often just a smoke screen for self-interested interventionism.
Its a ridiculous reason for trying to cause instability in the world in rallying countries against China (as you seem to be arguing).
I've visited China many many times and nothing's ever happened to me and I've never seen any human rights violations. I'm not saying they don't exist but the way some people talk about the country, its as if they think it is some kind of Stalinist police state.
1. Compared to Russia and China? Yes, yes it is.
2. It says alot when the one torture we have causes a national scandal and the everyday torture there is considered no big deal.
3. .....Yeah? It's called a government building, I don't get the point you're trying to make here.
4. Irrelevant as noone is calling for intervention.
5. Anecdotal.
by Genivaria » Thu May 15, 2014 5:02 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Genivaria wrote:1. Compared to Russia and China? Yes, yes it is.
2. It says alot when the one torture we have causes a national scandal and the everyday torture there is considered no big deal.
3. .....Yeah? It's called a government building, I don't get the point you're trying to make here.
4. Irrelevant as noone is calling for intervention.
5. Anecdotal.
1. Maybe but I think the difference is really overstated. For example, even the language that is casually thrown around. For example, saying human rights ''exist'' in the US but ''don't exist'' in China as opposed to saying they simply exist in varying degrees with less of it in China... Its just extremely misleading.
i thought you said somewhere you wanted the US to support an anti-China coalition of Asian states or something?
or was that someone else?
by Dalcaria » Thu May 15, 2014 5:05 pm
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Riots and Violence against Chinese citizens is spiraling in Vietnam. Reports of factories being burned and ethnic Chinese businessmen fleeing is the unfortunate byproduct of this situation.
20 people have been killed thus far in the past day.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... in-vietnam
It is sad to see such hostility against the People's Republic of China. I feel like the West is purposefully trying to stoke tension in the region by pitting China's neighbors against Beijing in a thinly veiled containment policy.
"Pivot to Asia" as they like to call it.
Obama's Sino-phobic Asia tour last month as a good example of this policy.
Vietnam must immediately work to contain this nationalist outburst, or bad things may come.
by Northwest Slobovia » Thu May 15, 2014 5:07 pm
by Cyyro » Thu May 15, 2014 5:08 pm
Northwest Slobovia wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
yeah but even in the US I am sure the government has ways to make you disappear if you cause too much trouble.
Hardly. Go look up "habeas corpus". In fact, the Supreme Court ruled (in Boumediene v. Bush) that habeas applies to non-citizens as well: no part of the government of the US can simply detain people without cause.
I agree with Genivaria here: you apparently don't know much about either country.
by Genivaria » Thu May 15, 2014 5:09 pm
Cyyro wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:Hardly. Go look up "habeas corpus". In fact, the Supreme Court ruled (in Boumediene v. Bush) that habeas applies to non-citizens as well: no part of the government of the US can simply detain people without cause.
I agree with Genivaria here: you apparently don't know much about either country.
Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus before, so I am sure others could.
by Estado Paulista » Thu May 15, 2014 5:11 pm
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