a

[United Dependencies]

Actually, there was 1 plot twist: the entire unnecessary "sex" scene.

That was a plot twist?

Yea I was honestly not suprised.

Though that does bring up the question of how it is that they claim they are in harmony with nature when the don't even attempt to control population growth.

[The_pantless_hero]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

Avatar porn!

[United Dependencies]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

Avatar porn!

Well it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[Playing In The Water]

Actually, there was 1 plot twist: the entire unnecessary "sex" scene.

That was a plot twist?

Yea I was honestly not suprised.

Though that does bring up the question of how it is that they claim they are in harmony with nature when the don't even attempt to control population growth.

Well, it's more like there's abundant resources around for lots of Na'vi - food, shelter, the like - if they spread out well enough. Plus, ya gotta remember; they aren't the toughest critters on the moon, either. Banshees might kill them sometimes (though only wild, un-friendly ones ), thanators definitely kill some, and then those big leonopteryx fliers would take their toll too.

And yes, I do remember all the beasties' names. I like the movie that much.

[RhynoD]

So, Avatar is the new hit on the box. The movie was long in the making (actually 10 years, it seems), and a lot of money has been spent for making and promoting it. I watched it. Truly an orgasm for the eye. While the plot is rather flat and full of cliches (not surprisingly), it is also true that the movie is a pioneer of a new age of cinematography. Much has been said about it, from both praisers and critics...but generally it is enjoying high marks http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/. Mainly for its special animation effects, and the 3D adventure it brings us into. A nice way to spend 3 hours, by any means.

So far, so good...

But here is where we go political.


While Cameron's cinematographic achievement has earned deserved ovations, there are voices that turn the attention to the political side of the movie. Basically, the accusations are as follows...

Accusation 1. Avatar is branded as an obvious leftist, anti-war, anti-industrial, pro-environmentalist propaganda. It is animation, and many children are going to watch it. And they will get brainwashed into the New Age, hippie naturalist agenda of the author(s). Just one more proof that Hollywood is Liberal, etc. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/geoffrey-dickens/2009/12/14/today-james-cameron-reveals-liberal-propaganda-avatar

Accusation 2. Avatar is unpatriotic, un-American and many more "un" things, and above all, un-humanist, because it puts mankind in the position of the bad guys, the oppressor, who is colonising the poor lovely aliens. It is also seen as an allusion to the Iraq War. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100019656/is-avatar-an-attack-on-the-iraq-war/

I'm more pissed about how they slap you in the face with it. It's like getting slapped in the face by a 16" wang. A 16" blue furry wang with fiber-optic nerve tentacles coming out. If you're going to wave your propaganda around, at least have the decency to cover it up a bit. And that goes for both sides.

Accusation 3. Avatar is racist, because, when drawing the above parallel between the human invasion and colonialism, it creates an impression that only the white man (i.e. the humans) possess the ability/capacity to destroy worlds, and respectively to save worlds. The native aliens are obviously not able to save themselves on their own, and they need a white/human to do it for them.

Accusation 4. In the meantime, Avatar promotes reverse racism, because it implants white guilt - humans are the bad guys, they are destroying a beautiful planet and a native civilisation that lives in harmony with nature. "And then there’s his underlying purpose: Avatar is the corniest movie ever made about the white man's need to lose his identity and assuage racial, political, sexual and historical guilt." http://www.nypress.com/article-20710-blue-in-the-face.html

Yeah, pretty much. It's not exactly subtle.
It's also actually racist in the complete opposite way: most white people are ignorant and stupid, but white people are still so awesome that one of them can manage to so completely learn and enter a culture in only three months that he goes on to be the most revered leader of all time. It suffers from the same problem "The Last Samurai" has: non-white cultures are better, but white people themselves are actually better because they're capable of being a part of any culture. Those blue people are awesome, but can they incorporate themselves into white culture? Nope, of course not. Not like white people can incorporate themselves into blue furry culture.

Also, the plot is completely unoriginal. Not bad, but completely unoriginal.

But it's very pretty. Just going to see the pretty is good enough a reason to see the movie.

[The Snake Brotherhood]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

I am fairly certain that there were gravid female Na'vi in some of the crowd scenes. They have navels in the same place as humans, so I'm assuming some analogue of placental mammal reproduction.

The females have breasts (similar range of sizes to free range humans who are well fed but not "well fed"). I suspect Neytiri was less well endowed than most of the adult females. I've been wondering how old she is. She's a fully qualified warrior, but I would guess she is in late adolescence (H. sapiens equivalent 18 +/- a couple of years). Also from how bratty she is to her parents at a couple of points.

[The_pantless_hero]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

I am fairly certain that there were gravid female Na'vi in some of the crowd scenes. They have navels in the same place as humans, so I'm assuming some analogue of placental mammal reproduction.

Cameron confirmed they are NOT placental mammals.

The females have breasts (similar range of sizes to free range humans who are well fed but not "well fed"). I suspect Neytiri was less well endowed than most of the adult females. I've been wondering how old she is. She's a fully qualified warrior, but I would guess she is in late adolescence (H. sapiens equivalent 18 +/- a couple of years). Also from how bratty she is to her parents at a couple of points.

The only ones with noticeable breasts were the human DNA Na'vi - ie, the avatars.

[The great Seal]

They don't show how they reproduce. I keep feeling like I don't want to know.

Avatar porn!

Well it was bound to happen sooner or later.

rule #34
NO EXCEPTIONS !

i could post a link, but i think i would be banned...

[Callisdrun]

Maybe I'm crazy, but somehow I get the feeling that the only people who think this(or indeed, most blockbusters) is propaganda are just looking for a reason to disparage some group they disagree with.

Agreed. Yeah, Avatar has a pretty heavy-handed environmentalist message.

So what? It's probably been said already in this thread, but directors are people and allowed to have opinions. When creating a fictional work, there's no law that says they have to hold themselves to some neutral, inoffensive perspective.

I mean, really, think about how ridiculous that would be. It may have a message, but at the end of the day it's just a fictional movie, created by people who, like everyone else, have their own opinions which, intentionally or not, affect the pieces they make.

It's just a fucking movie, people. And directors are free to express their opinions just like everyone else. If you disagree with said opinions, don't watch the damn movie, or make your own fucking movie.

As for me, I go to movies to have fun, to be entertained. Avatar was entertaining, it was fun. I enjoyed the evening, both times. Plus the soundtrack was cool.

[Brogavia]

Avatar is the mutant offspring an orgy made up of every holloywood cliche ever beaten to death, a Michael Bay film, and Dances With Wolves.

[Callisdrun]

The only ones with noticeable breasts were the human DNA Na'vi - ie, the avatars.

You weren't looking hard enough. Na'vi do indeed have breasts.

[Denny Crania]

Avatar has exactly the same plot as Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai, Ecotopia, and so many other things.

[The_pantless_hero]

The only ones with noticeable breasts were the human DNA Na'vi - ie, the avatars.

You weren't looking hard enough. Na'vi do indeed have breasts.

You missed what I said.

[Callisdrun]

The only ones with noticeable breasts were the human DNA Na'vi - ie, the avatars.

You weren't looking hard enough. Na'vi do indeed have breasts.

You missed what I said.

Nope.

[Tauntoga]

Humans by nature are violent. We can't hardly live amoungst ourselves happily let alone others. So it wouldn't come as a surprise we'll jump to a war with something else when you nagotiate mining under the Home Tree to get, without blowing it up as they did in the movie. That would have worked as a usefull plan B that wouldn't destroy the land but allow them to get the ore. But, as it's a movie and needs a decent plot with stuff going to hell I don't think it was ever considered.

[Arumdaum]

I had no intentions of seeing it until I read this. Makes me want to see it

Same with me.

[Tauntoga]

Avatar has exactly the same plot as Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai, Ecotopia, and so many other things.

I think it's what can be called a "western". Not in the sense of two guys standing in the middle of a dusty town's main-street ready to kill each other. But I recall having a conversation about Star Wars and the guy I was talking to said it was a Western. I asked why and he said that it shared the common characristics of a "western", which is a less advanced or tribal like race going up against something far more advanced.

Like the Ewoks against storm troopers. Or a Navjoe tribe going up against the US army in the 1800's. Or in this case the Na'vi going up against guys in massive gunship-helicopters with missles and machine guns. And Last Samurai with dated katanas and lemellar armor against rifle and gattling gun.

[Andaluciae]

Greatly enjoyed it, but...

There was a pretty clear juxtaposition of the White Guilt and Mighty Whitey and Noble Savage tropes in the film. All of which do all parties involved an extreme disservice.

[United Dependencies]

I want to see the natives vs Master Chief.

[Callisdrun]

Humans by nature are violent. We can't hardly live amoungst ourselves happily let alone others. So it wouldn't come as a surprise we'll jump to a war with something else when you nagotiate mining under the Home Tree to get, without blowing it up as they did in the movie. That would have worked as a usefull plan B that wouldn't destroy the land but allow them to get the ore. But, as it's a movie and needs a decent plot with stuff going to hell I don't think it was ever considered.

Humans are Bastards: The Movie

[United Dependencies]

Humans by nature are violent. We can't hardly live amoungst ourselves happily let alone others. So it wouldn't come as a surprise we'll jump to a war with something else when you nagotiate mining under the Home Tree to get, without blowing it up as they did in the movie. That would have worked as a usefull plan B that wouldn't destroy the land but allow them to get the ore. But, as it's a movie and needs a decent plot with stuff going to hell I don't think it was ever considered.

Humans are Bastards: The Movie

You stole that from TV tropes.

[Urgolon]

Accusation 1. Avatar is branded as an obvious leftist, anti-war, anti-industrial, pro-environmentalist propaganda. It is animation, and many children are going to watch it. And they will get brainwashed into the New Age, hippie naturalist agenda of the author(s). Just one more proof that Hollywood is Liberal, etc. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/geoffrey-dickens/2009/12/14/today-james-cameron-reveals-liberal-propaganda-avatar

Young Children should not watch a PG13 movie. And there are hundreds of childrens movies that teach those same things.

Accusation 2. Avatar is unpatriotic, un-American and many more "un" things, and above all, un-humanist, because it puts mankind in the position of the bad guys, the oppressor, who is colonising the poor lovely aliens. It is also seen as an allusion to the Iraq War. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100019656/is-avatar-an-attack-on-the-iraq-war/

There are some good humans.

Accusation 3. Avatar is racist, because, when drawing the above parallel between the human invasion and colonialism, it creates an impression that only the white man (i.e. the humans) possess the ability/capacity to destroy worlds, and respectively to save worlds. The native aliens are obviously not able to save themselves on their own, and they need a white/human to do it for them.

Not all the humans are white. I saw several black guys and maybe an Asian guy?

Accusation 4. In the meantime, Avatar promotes reverse racism, because it implants white guilt - humans are the bad guys, they are destroying a beautiful planet and a native civilisation that lives in harmony with nature. "And then there’s his underlying purpose: Avatar is the corniest movie ever made about the white man's need to lose his identity and assuage racial, political, sexual and historical guilt." http://www.nypress.com/article-20710-blue-in-the-face.html

Again, not the first movie.

Miscellaneous accusations. For instance, some Indian religious organisations have expressed concerns about the way the movie depicts their religion (I am talking about Hinduism).

Yeah, now we must ban people calling video game avatars avatars, because it violates their religion!

And then, there are the most fringe lunatics coming out of the woodwork and telling us that the movie is about population control and the director is an eugenicist. http://www.thestoryofagirl.com/2009/12/20/avatar-propaganda/

Those guys could probably find similar things in Scooby-Doo

[Callisdrun]

Humans by nature are violent. We can't hardly live amoungst ourselves happily let alone others. So it wouldn't come as a surprise we'll jump to a war with something else when you nagotiate mining under the Home Tree to get, without blowing it up as they did in the movie. That would have worked as a usefull plan B that wouldn't destroy the land but allow them to get the ore. But, as it's a movie and needs a decent plot with stuff going to hell I don't think it was ever considered.

Humans are Bastards: The Movie

You stole that from TV tropes.

I do not claim credit for it. I was actually hoping that other fans of the site would recognize the reference.

[Cannot think of a name]

You know, I've written a lot in other threads about the whole thing that TV Tropes calls "Mighty Whitey," and it's in the movie full force, but the sensitivity over 'humans are bastards' things is a little, well, sensitive.

Aren't the scientists humans? The helicopter pilot? Is there really any indication that humanity has any notion of how their unobtanium is being obtained? The bastards are the same bastards that have been bastards in every James Cameron movie since Piranha 2-corporations.