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Gates of evil
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Founded: Feb 03, 2012
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makes no sense

Postby Gates of evil » Thu May 08, 2014 1:52 pm

so i watched the whole debate on cnn and i realized this. there is no way to go about discussing this topic without getting into the whole abortion debate, because no matter what peoples bias is going to be involved.


see for yourself
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/201 ... tl%3Dfalse

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu May 08, 2014 1:52 pm

Helvagon wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
Potentiality of human life =/= actual human life.


How?


Just because my sperm has the potential to create human life doesn't mean it is as sacred as my life.

Same thing with a fetus, just because it has the potential to develop into a human being doesn't mean they are as sacred as an actual life.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Korouse
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Founded: Mar 10, 2014
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Postby Korouse » Thu May 08, 2014 1:52 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Korouse wrote:Again, what about 8 year olds, how about we kill them because they can't reproduce? How about we kill those who can't feel pain because of a disease? How about we kill the braindead people on life support? What about people in a coma?


You are just moving the goalposts because you have been proven wrong more than once.

The point is that the fetus, before it even has a heartbeat, developed organs, or developed brain function are not human. They are just cells.

After they have reached that level of maturity they are recognized for all intent and purposes as human biologically. Your argument about 8 year olds, people on a coma, and brain dead people along with the people who cannot feel pain are sincerely pointless.

You think you've proven me wrong, you're just taking my point and throwing it in the air.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Helvagon
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Founded: Mar 16, 2014
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Postby Helvagon » Thu May 08, 2014 1:52 pm

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Korouse wrote:Again, what about 8 year olds, how about we kill them because they can't reproduce? How about we kill those who can't feel pain because of a disease? How about we kill the braindead people on life support? What about people in a coma?


You are just moving the goalposts because you have been proven wrong more than once.

The point is that the fetus, before it even has a heartbeat, developed organs, or developed brain function are not human. They are just cells.

After they have reached that level of maturity they are recognized for all intent and purposes as human biologically. Your argument about 8 year olds, people on a coma, and brain dead people along with the people who cannot feel pain are sincerely pointless.


Then what makes it human life? A change in location from the womb to the outside world?
Helvagon- A free place for all except daleks
Whenever I use the term IB, I mean intelligent being. As we have many species who live in Helvagon, it would be inconsiderate to say "people"

We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars.
~ Carl Sagan


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Death Metal
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 1:53 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
"Cultural Marxism" is pure anti-thought newspeak.

And I am proudly publicly pro-choice, because it is absolutely immoral and sexist to deny women the right to remove unwanted parasites from their body, especially for theocratic reasons.

A fetus isn't a parasite.


Until the very end of the pregnancy cycle, it absolutely is a parasite.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu May 08, 2014 1:54 pm

Korouse wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
You are just moving the goalposts because you have been proven wrong more than once.

The point is that the fetus, before it even has a heartbeat, developed organs, or developed brain function are not human. They are just cells.

After they have reached that level of maturity they are recognized for all intent and purposes as human biologically. Your argument about 8 year olds, people on a coma, and brain dead people along with the people who cannot feel pain are sincerely pointless.

You think you've proven me wrong, you're just taking my point and throwing it in the air.


Because you are comparing apples and oranges.

It's as if you were assuming that because I am pro-choice I should be also for the death penalty, which are two different things.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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MERIZoC
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Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Thu May 08, 2014 1:54 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Merizoc wrote:A fetus isn't a parasite.


Until the very end of the pregnancy cycle, it absolutely is a parasite.

A parasitic relationship is between two species. A fetus is not a species.

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Korouse
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Founded: Mar 10, 2014
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Postby Korouse » Thu May 08, 2014 1:55 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Merizoc wrote:A fetus isn't a parasite.


Until the very end of the pregnancy cycle, it absolutely is a parasite.

Parasite:An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Organism: An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.
By saying it's a parasite, you ADMIT that it is alive.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Death Metal
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 1:56 pm

Helvagon wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
You are just moving the goalposts because you have been proven wrong more than once.

The point is that the fetus, before it even has a heartbeat, developed organs, or developed brain function are not human. They are just cells.

After they have reached that level of maturity they are recognized for all intent and purposes as human biologically. Your argument about 8 year olds, people on a coma, and brain dead people along with the people who cannot feel pain are sincerely pointless.


Then what makes it human life?


Developed brain and organ functions, which doesn't truly happen until the last trimester.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu May 08, 2014 1:57 pm

Helvagon wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
You are just moving the goalposts because you have been proven wrong more than once.

The point is that the fetus, before it even has a heartbeat, developed organs, or developed brain function are not human. They are just cells.

After they have reached that level of maturity they are recognized for all intent and purposes as human biologically. Your argument about 8 year olds, people on a coma, and brain dead people along with the people who cannot feel pain are sincerely pointless.


Then what makes it human life? A change in location from the womb to the outside world?


I see it as viability of life.

If a fetus can, with or without support, live outside the womb then it is a human being. Human beings are self-sustaining organisms at their most basic form, they do not depend on the mother to exist, and by that I mean they do not receive nutrients by being attached by an umbilical cord to their mother or, at least, they don't need to.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Death Metal
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 1:57 pm

Korouse wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
Until the very end of the pregnancy cycle, it absolutely is a parasite.

Parasite:An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Organism: An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.
By saying it's a parasite, you ADMIT that it is alive.


Goalpost moving on your part. It's not a living human. It's just a living parasite.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Sanskacia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Sep 04, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sanskacia » Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Well ...
I guess she got everyone talking about it.
So that's ... good?

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MERIZoC
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Korouse wrote: Parasite:An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Organism: An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.
By saying it's a parasite, you ADMIT that it is alive.


Goalpost moving on your part. It's not a living human. It's just a living parasite.

But it isn't a species of any sort, which is one of the criteria for a parasite.

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Scholmeria
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Founded: Mar 14, 2014
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Postby Scholmeria » Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Scholmeria wrote:To be fair, I dont know, it is just that it does not bothers me.

What is more important is that at least in Europe people are getting enough from this cultural Marxism.


"Cultural Marxism" is pure anti-thought newspeak.

And I am proudly publicly pro-choice, because it is absolutely immoral and sexist to deny women the right to remove unwanted parasites from their body, especially for theocratic reasons.

Oh, jeez if only your mummy preform that right on a such parasite long time ago, I would love to hear your reaction about that now.

But there are not theocratic reason for pro-life.

Merizoc wrote:
Scholmeria wrote:Well, i dont count openly gay neighbourhoods or where the "open-minded" people are gathering

"openly gay neighborhoods"? A neighborhood is incapable of sexual orientation. It cannot be gay. :p

Well, you know what I mean. :blush:
GAZA 2014
For the brave Israeli soldiers <3

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Death Metal
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 1:59 pm

Merizoc wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
Until the very end of the pregnancy cycle, it absolutely is a parasite.

A parasitic relationship is between two species.


It can be, but it doesn't have to be.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Korouse
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Founded: Mar 10, 2014
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Postby Korouse » Thu May 08, 2014 1:59 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Korouse wrote: Parasite:An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Organism: An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.
By saying it's a parasite, you ADMIT that it is alive.


Goalpost moving on your part. It's not a living human. It's just a living parasite.

"Goalpost" I don't understand. How is it just a parasite? It's from Human DNA.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Scholmeria
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Postby Scholmeria » Thu May 08, 2014 2:00 pm

Kelinfort wrote:Cultural Marxism? :blink:

The hell?

It's cultural liberalism, as opposed to cultural conservatism. Marxism is an economic theory.

I would gree that the term Marxism is maybe not a good word for describing it, but it got popular such phrase.
GAZA 2014
For the brave Israeli soldiers <3

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MERIZoC
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Posts: 23694
Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Thu May 08, 2014 2:00 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Merizoc wrote:A parasitic relationship is between two species.


It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite
Parasitism is a non-mutual symbiotic relationship between species, where one species, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host.

If you can find me an example of a parasite that isn't a species, I'll concede the point.

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Death Metal
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 2:00 pm

Scholmeria wrote:Oh, jeez if only your mummy preform that right on a such parasite long time ago, I would love to hear your reaction about that now.


I'd be fine with it, actually.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu May 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Korouse wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
Goalpost moving on your part. It's not a living human. It's just a living parasite.

"Goalpost" I don't understand. How is it just a parasite? It's from Human DNA.


Here's the thing:

A human fetus does have parasitic characteristics, but it isn't a parasite.

By saying it is a parasite what they mean is that they receive nutrients and sustain themselves via the host. But they are not really parasites. pseudo-parasites if you will.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Scholmeria
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Founded: Mar 14, 2014
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Postby Scholmeria » Thu May 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Scholmeria wrote:Oh, jeez if only your mummy preform that right on a such parasite long time ago, I would love to hear your reaction about that now.


I'd be fine with it, actually.

Lol, to be fair me to. :rofl:
GAZA 2014
For the brave Israeli soldiers <3

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Kelinfort
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Posts: 16394
Founded: Nov 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Thu May 08, 2014 2:02 pm

Scholmeria wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:Cultural Marxism? :blink:

The hell?

It's cultural liberalism, as opposed to cultural conservatism. Marxism is an economic theory.

I would gree that the term Marxism is maybe not a good word for describing it, but it got popular such phrase.

It makes no sense, literally none. Social liberalism would be a better term.

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Mavorpen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63266
Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Thu May 08, 2014 2:03 pm

Merizoc wrote:If you can find me an example of a parasite that isn't a species, I'll concede the point.

You've never heard of Kleptoparasitism have you?
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Death Metal
Postmaster-General
 
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Founded: Dec 22, 2011
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Postby Death Metal » Thu May 08, 2014 2:06 pm

Scholmeria wrote:
Death Metal wrote:
I'd be fine with it, actually.

Lol, to be fair me to. :rofl:


Yeah, implying you'd want someone else to never be born, that's flaming sunshine.

Luckily for you I don't care enough.
Only here when I'm VERY VERY VERY bored now.
(Trump is Reagan 2.0: A nationalistic bimbo who will ruin America.)
Death Metal: A nation founded on the most powerful force in the world: METAL! \m/
A non-idealist centre-leftist

Alts: Ronpaulatia, Bisonopolis, Iga, Gygaxia, The Children of Skyrim, Tinfoil Fedoras

Pro: Civil Equality, Scaled Income Taxes, Centralized Govtt, Moderate Business Regulations, Heavy Metal
Con: Censorship in any medium, Sales Tax, Flat Tax, Small Govt, Overly Large Govt, Laissez Faire, AutoTuner.

I support Obama. And so would FA Hayek.

34 arguments Libertarians (and sometimes AnCaps) make, and why they are wrong.

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Scomagia
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Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
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Postby Scomagia » Thu May 08, 2014 2:06 pm

Helvagon wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:
Potentiality of human life =/= actual human life.


How?

Is an acorn a tree?
Insert trite farewell here

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