Eurovision 2014

[Gezi Park]

Just had a look at Wikipedia's 2015 Contest and it's looking like Israel may not be back next year. Cyprus and Turkey may to return also.

It says the Israeli government is planning to shut down their national TV, I wonder why.

I hope we return though. My enthusiasm for ESC has died down because of our abstention...

[The Blaatschapen]

Millions of people all suddenly decided to vote for Austria 'for the lulz'?
The only lulz I see are my amusement towards people that try to find a reason why Austria won. Austria won because it had the best entry. That is what Europe believes.

Sort of.

Austria won on the basis of a 50/50 averaging of votes between phone-in votes on the night and national jury panels voting on the basis of the dress rehearsal performances (a quick read back through the thread shows the impact of the jury voting's already been discussed in some detail). In that sense, Austria seems to have won because it was the act least disliked by either of the two groups.

If it had been left to the people of Europe, we might well have been convening in Warsaw next year; which might demonstrate that at least some straight men vote in Eurovision. That link also shows that Austria didn't finish top of either the phone or the jury vote in the UK; the UK phone vote had Poland first, the jury had Malta first - Austria came top of the UK vote on the basis of having the best average between the two groups of voters rather than being the song that everyone in the UK thought was the best act. And while the UK might not be representative of the whole of Europe, the same link shows that Poland were also in the top three of the phone vote in at least the Netherlands, Iceland, Austria, Macedonia, France, Germany and Sweden; juries there also seem to have disagreed.

So not everyone agrees with the assertion that Austria had the best entry. Our viewing group was unanimous in thinking that on the basis of quality of the song, the Netherlands was the best act by a country mile (pun fully intended). We all had Austria in the top 10, certainly (we score separately on both song and presentation and then add the two scores), so we thought it would do well, but we didn't think it would win. It would have made for a decent Bond theme, but it certainly wasn't the best song. But then I think we all know Eurovision isn't really just a song contest.

The reasons for Austria's victory were complex, but seem to have been a combination of a decent (but by no means spectacular) song that deserved to do reasonably well, a more serious split than usual between telephone voters and jury voters that allowed a song that wasn't necessarily the top in either rating to do well so long as it wasn't disliked by either group, a genuine sense of LGBT solidarity from Eurovision's sizeable LGBT audience, and - yes - at least a little bit of 'lulz'. None of those factors are mutually exclusive, after all. But I don't think Conchita Wurst's victory was nearly as clear-cut as the last transgender Eurovision winner; Dana International's Diva was incontestably the best song in 1998 (though the link there shows that the latter wasn't quite the runaway winner of popular memory).


On some level I'm pleased that Conchita Wurst won; but I also think the Dutch have every right to feel just a little bit hard done by this week.

At the same time, the Dutch failure to win can't be put down to a combined LGBT/lulz vote either; the Netherlands did astonishingly poorly in the more conservative Eastern European nations (Poland excepted). Many supposedly homophobic Eastern European nations gave Conchita Wurst a higher score than the Netherlands. It was in northern, western, and central Europe that the Dutch did well. I can only assume large swathes of eastern and southern Europe are immune to Eurified alt.country.

"We" were also popular in the Baltic states (12 points from all three). Also, 12 from Hungary. Of course, you can argue about Hungary being central Europe, but you just made Poland Eastern... And in my book they're either both central or both eastern *shrugs*

[Respawn]

Please tell me where in the blue fuck I said that Russians are the only homophobes on the planet. I did not explicitly or implicitly claim this in any shape or form.

Someone said that Slavic nations are not very homophobic when that is demonstrably untrue and I was responding to that claim. I live in the Deep South for shit's sake do you seriously think I think that Slavic peoples are the only ones with homophobes?

Jesus H. Christ.

Good grief, there is no need to get so aggressive and belligerent. I may have took your comment the wrong way, but let's bring the discussion back to Eurovision.

[Respawn]

The crowd started booing when Russia only gave Ukraine 7 points.
On a related note, the Russian media's reaction to Austria's victory was glorious.

Favourite part is where the one guy gets shouted down for being like "look I think we should celebrate people being proud to be themselves. It's part of art."

"SCREW YOU RUSSIA FORWARD!"

Apparently Austria's victory is the most horrifying defeat for the EU, because we will see the true face of it.

[Horusland]

Sort of.

-snip-

To clarify, I didn't mean that 'Austria was the best entry' in every way or that everyone liked Conchita's song. What I was trying to say is that she won not because of politics or lulz or things like that. Even if those contributed, you can't deny that people loved the song and that there is no reason to go and say 'she won because of [excuse], the real winner is [x]'. And you wouldn't believe how much I've heard that this weekend, both in real life and here.

I wonder, did anyone count only the telephone/SMS voting to see who would win in such a case?

[The Archregimancy]

"We" were also popular in the Baltic states (12 points from all three). Also, 12 from Hungary. Of course, you can argue about Hungary being central Europe, but you just made Poland Eastern... And in my book they're either both central or both eastern *shrugs*

I was counting the Baltics as "northern Europe" for Eurovision purposes; I should have made that clearer.

And I personally count Hungary as central, but Poland as eastern for historical reasons; but I do agree that the conceptual boundaries there are all highly subjective.


I've started a spreadsheet compiling the jury votes and the telephone votes separately to see how they compare to each other; but it's taking a while so I won't get it finished in the short term.

But through Iceland - so more than a third of the way through - the top five in the jury vote are (scoring points the same way as in the actual competition):

Netherlands (95)
Sweden (81)
Austria (78)
Hungary (65)
Malta & Russia tied (50)


The top three in the telephone vote are:

Austria (122)
Armenia (102)
Netherlands (96)
Sweden (79)
Russia (71)
Poland (66)

The points discrepancy is down to the juries distributing their rankings across a broader range of songs than the general public.

I'll try and get this finished in the next couple of days.

[Horusland]

"We" were also popular in the Baltic states (12 points from all three). Also, 12 from Hungary. Of course, you can argue about Hungary being central Europe, but you just made Poland Eastern... And in my book they're either both central or both eastern *shrugs*

Musically speaking, Hungary is central. I have Hungarian TV stations, and the difference is obvious.

I'll try and get this finished in the next couple of days.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1962159
According to this, Austria won the contest by far, with the juries actually bringing it down.

[Costa Fierro]

It says the Israeli government is planning to shut down their national TV, I wonder why.

Something to do with the Israeli government being a bit strapped for cash. Unlike Greece, which had another TV station step in to save their chances, I'm not entirely sure about an alternative Israeli entry.

If Israel doesn't enter next year, you can bet that countries such as Morocco and Lebanon will suddenly announce they plan to return to/debut at the contest.

[Respawn]

It says the Israeli government is planning to shut down their national TV, I wonder why.

Something to do with the Israeli government being a bit strapped for cash. Unlike Greece, which had another TV station step in to save their chances, I'm not entirely sure about an alternative Israeli entry.

If Israel doesn't enter next year, you can bet that countries such as Morocco and Lebanon will suddenly announce they plan to return to/debut at the contest.

Oh fun. More bloc voting.

[Terrordome]

I am surprised that people are suprised that Poland did badly. The song was awful and the singers were flat (their voices, not their chest obviously). Tits were pretty much the only thing that song had going for it.

I voted for Netherlands, it was a really nice song. I also quite liked the Austrian song, and the Finland song suprisingly as that kind of tween-rock is not really my thing.

[The Archregimancy]

I'll try and get this finished in the next couple of days.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1962159
According to this, Austria won the contest by far, with the juries actually bringing it down.

Lessons learned:

1) Don't waste time doing what someone else has likely already done

2) Eliminating the jury wouldn't have had too much impact on the order of the nations finishing first and second this year.


The jury vote is, broadly speaking, marginally saner in my wholly subjective opinion; but only marginally. Contrary to popular perception, the two votes sets of votes broadly agreed on the upper ranking of songs (and that France were shite; which they were), but pushed Armenia a bit further and Russia much further down the rankings - and Poland even further, sparing us from any danger that buxom dancing Slavic wenches would become a dominant theme in future Eurovision competitions.

But I still think the Dutch should have won....

[Fascist Russian Empire]

(and that France were shite; which they were)

I don't get it. What was bad about France's song? Because it was in French? Because it was silly?

[Horusland]

(and that France were shite; which they were)

I don't get it. What was bad about France's song? Because it was in French? Because it was silly?

Because people didn't like it.

[The Blaatschapen]

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1962159
According to this, Austria won the contest by far, with the juries actually bringing it down.

Lessons learned:

1) Don't waste time doing what someone else has likely already done

2) Eliminating the jury wouldn't have had too much impact on the order of the nations finishing first and second this year.


The jury vote is, broadly speaking, marginally saner in my wholly subjective opinion; but only marginally. Contrary to popular perception, the two votes sets of votes broadly agreed on the upper ranking of songs (and that France were shite; which they were), but pushed Armenia a bit further and Russia much further down the rankings - and Poland even further, sparing us from any danger that buxom dancing Slavic wenches would become a dominant theme in future Eurovision competitions.

But I still think the Dutch should have won....

Ah yes, drats, there goes our plan to have buxom dancing Slavic wenches on public television.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Ah yes, drats, there goes our plan to have buxom dancing Slavic wenches on public television.

The sheer audacity. Clearly this is the work of Satan, and we need to exorcise whoever let them perform.

[Respawn]

I am surprised that people are suprised that Poland did badly. The song was awful and the singers were flat (their voices, not their chest obviously). Tits were pretty much the only thing that song had going for it.

I voted for Netherlands, it was a really nice song. I also quite liked the Austrian song, and the Finland song suprisingly as that kind of tween-rock is not really my thing.

Yes, their song wasn't any "good" but they were quite clearly robbed by the jury in several countries. I like to watch Eurovision for more than just good voices, if I wanted that, I'd watch X-Facor or the Voice.
This is why we will never see something as glorious as Lordi or Verka Serduchka ever again, everyone wants to suck up to the jurors. I'm getting tired of these repetitive ballads and generic Europop.

[The Archregimancy]

It says the Israeli government is planning to shut down their national TV, I wonder why.

Something to do with the Israeli government being a bit strapped for cash. Unlike Greece, which had another TV station step in to save their chances, I'm not entirely sure about an alternative Israeli entry.

If Israel doesn't enter next year, you can bet that countries such as Morocco and Lebanon will suddenly announce they plan to return to/debut at the contest.

Lebanon's actually a founding member of the European Broadcasting Union; it's been a member longer than Israel.

In any case, the full list of Arab members of the EBU who'd be entirely eligible to enter if they chose to accept the invitation they're sent every year is:

Morocco
Algeria
Tunisia
Libya
Egypt
Jordan
Lebanon

Of these, Morocco is the only country to have ever entered (in 1980 - a year Israel didn't enter). Lebanon did announce their entry in 2005, but withdrew after the EBU told the local broadcaster that failing to show the Israeli entry would be a breach of EBU rules. Lebanon left the withdrawal so late that they were fined by the EBU. In 1978, the Jordanian broadcaster stopped the transmission when it became apparent that Israel was going to win, refused to acknowledge the result, and Jordanian media announced that second-placed Belgium had won.

[The Archregimancy]

(and that France were shite; which they were)

I don't get it. What was bad about France's song? Because it was in French? Because it was silly?

Je parle français; la langue n'est pas le problème.

The problem is that the song was shite, and only mildly redeemed by what was at least a reasonably energetic performance.

Iceland had precisely the same problem, mind.

Ah yes, drats, there goes our plan to have buxom dancing Slavic wenches on public television.

Those of us who married a Slav don't need television.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Je parle français; la langue n'est pas le problème.

The problem is that the song was shite, and only mildly redeemed by what was at least a reasonably energetic performance.

Iceland had precisely the same problem, mind.

Alright, I'll admit that Iceland's song was pretty fucking horrible, almost as bad as Georgia's.

Of course, I still don't get why France's was shit? It had great beat, catchy lyrics (even if I couldn't understand them ), and was just all around pleasant. Maybe I'm just a hipster and I like what everybody else hates, but I'd say it was really underrated.

[Nazis in Space]

Favourite part is where the one guy gets shouted down for being like "look I think we should celebrate people being proud to be themselves. It's part of art."

"SCREW YOU RUSSIA FORWARD!"

Apparently Austria's victory is the most horrifying defeat for the EU, because we will see the true face of it.

You've to wonder why Russia of all places is opposed to manly beards.

[Horusland]

Of course, I still don't get why France's was shit? It had great beat, catchy lyrics (even if I couldn't understand them ), and was just all around pleasant. Maybe I'm just a hipster and I like what everybody else hates, but I'd say it was really underrated.

Agreed. The French entry was better than most.

[Respawn]

Apparently Austria's victory is the most horrifying defeat for the EU, because we will see the true face of it.

You've to wonder why Russia of all places is opposed to manly beards.

It's back to the future with this one.

[Nazis in Space]

I am surprised that people are suprised that Poland did badly. The song was awful and the singers were flat (their voices, not their chest obviously). Tits were pretty much the only thing that song had going for it.

I voted for Netherlands, it was a really nice song. I also quite liked the Austrian song, and the Finland song suprisingly as that kind of tween-rock is not really my thing.

Yes, their song wasn't any "good" but thpy were quite clearly robbed by the jury in several countries. I like to watch Eurovision for more than just good voices, if I wanted that, I'd watch X-Facor or the Voice.
This is why we will never see something as glorious as Lordi or Verka Serduchka ever again, everyone wants to suck up to the jurors. I'm getting tired of these repetitive ballads and generic Europop.

a thousand times this. I mean, let's be honest here - how many people present actually regularly listen to soft-washed europop and genuinely enioy eurovision for it, and how many are in it for the spectacle and fun that has sadly decreased over the past decade.

when there's a total of two entries i can genuinely remember, plus a pair of cute twins and a hamster wheel i sadly cannot associate with a song, within 36 hours, well, that's bad.

yeah, occasionally there's also genuinely good entrants - italy of the past few years comes to mind. Serbia from a while back as well -, but overall...

give us the outstanding, the unusal and just plain surreal. It's why i watch.

[Elke and Elba]

Hmmm, Poland.

I'd say, if they sent something with more musical talent to at least get the jury to vote them mid table, and have the same buxom Slavic girls on stage they'd win it

[Risottia]

If it had been left to the people of Europe, we might well have been convening in Warsaw next year; which might demonstrate that at least some straight men vote in Eurovision.

Let's not rule out those lesbians who share with hetero men a, uhm, let's say, lesser consideration for musical performance compared to the consideration for sexual explicitness and breast size.