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Town prayer sessions upheld. SCOTUS 5-4

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue May 06, 2014 11:51 am

The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.
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Emmadog
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Postby Emmadog » Tue May 06, 2014 12:08 pm

The constitution does not dictate when and where we can pray. Therefore, as long as it is voluntary I think this is perfectly okay.
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Bezombia
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Postby Bezombia » Tue May 06, 2014 12:11 pm

Emmadog wrote:The constitution does not dictate when and where we can pray. Therefore, as long as it is voluntary I think this is perfectly okay.


Someone needs to reread the constitution.
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue May 06, 2014 12:12 pm

Emmadog wrote:The constitution does not dictate when and where we can pray. Therefore, as long as it is voluntary I think this is perfectly okay.

The constitution does say that the government can't endorse religion.
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Azinar
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Postby Azinar » Tue May 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Hey, look at what's already happening.

Roanoke County’s Board of Supervisors may be headed toward another discussion of prayer following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling handed down Monday. The board dealt with the matter in 2012, eventually passing a nonsectarian prayer policy that Supervisor Al Bedrosian is ready to strike from the books.
“The freedom of religion doesn’t mean that every religion has to be heard,” said Bedrosian, who added that he is concerned about groups such as Wiccans and Satanists. “If we allow everything … where do you draw the line?”
The supervisor campaigned on the idea of eliminating the policy, and the ruling has breathed new life into his idea for a policy that could lead to the exclusion of non-Christian groups from the invocation.
Commenting on Monday, Bedrosian said he envisions a setup by which the supervisors would approve, individually, people from their districts to offer the opening prayer. That system would hold supervisors accountable to their districts, he added.
When asked if he would allow representatives from non-Christian faiths and non-faiths, including Jews, Muslims, atheists and others, the Hollins District supervisor said he likely would not.


Looks like the ruling has opened the door for religious discrimination, instead of defending religious freedom.

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Tue May 06, 2014 12:23 pm

Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.


I know and respect a Satanist whose prayers would be (to me) quite refreshing and welcome.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue May 06, 2014 12:51 pm

Azinar wrote:


Looks like the ruling has opened the door for religious discrimination, instead of defending religious freedom.

Who could possibly seen that coming?
Oh, That's right... The non-dissenting justices. This is exactly what they wanted.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 06, 2014 12:57 pm

Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.


Hmmm How long should we hold our breath for that happening.

But you are correct. You open it to the Christians; you have to open it to all requests.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Tue May 06, 2014 12:59 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.


Hmmm How long should we hold our breath for that happening.

But you are correct. You open it to the Christians; you have to open it to all requests.

QUIT PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS!!!! 1!!11!!
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Postby Threlizdun » Tue May 06, 2014 1:30 pm

Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.

I'm sure the Satanic Temple will make an effort to get something done there. They've been good for that so far.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Tue May 06, 2014 3:02 pm

Azinar wrote:


Looks like the ruling has opened the door for religious discrimination, instead of defending religious freedom.

There are people who believe that freedom of religion only applies to Christians, so someone who lives there should sue the county as soon as they try to implement this. If the Supreme Court upholds that, we know we have something wrong in the Court.
Last edited by Geilinor on Tue May 06, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JeebusCrust
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Postby JeebusCrust » Tue May 06, 2014 3:02 pm

Emmadog wrote:The constitution does not dictate when and where we can pray. Therefore, as long as it is voluntary I think this is perfectly okay.

You must've missed the part where the gov't isn't allowed to endorse religion in any way, shape, or form.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 06, 2014 5:31 pm

Death Metal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Not at all, traditionally speaking prayer is done before or after a meeting is called to order or concluded.


Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy.

Maybe, but it is a winning argument in the supreme court.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 06, 2014 5:36 pm

Brilliant Equestria wrote:
Caninope wrote:That's not really the case, especially given life terms. In fact, given the state of the Senate Judiciary, it's impossible to get a "partisan hack" on the court- judges, these days, often lack extremely controversial decisions and are often evasive in Judiciary proceedings.

That's also presuming that ideologically motivated jurists cannot be good jurists, which is definitely not the case.

They're certainly a lot better at failing to openly-state their positions after Bork, yes. They have no such restrictions once they're confirmed.

The Roberts court has decided more cases by 5-4 than any other, about 22%. That's only a point or two higher than the Rehnquist court, but they've most likely got quite a bit more time before Roberts is replaced to widen the gap. Two-thirds of those are split along purely ideological lines; Sebelius was the only exception I can think of off the top of my head. That one was likely because Roberts is smart enough to realize, as he himself said, SCOTUS is in danger of "los[ing] its credibility and legitimacy as an institution".

The composition of the court is a problem too. It's the most conservative court since the 1930's: 4 of the 5 most conservative justices in history are serving now and only 1 of the top 10 most liberal is. Of course, it could be the opposite and we'd still be having the same problem. The whole idea behind life appointments was to protect justices from being influenced by partisan politics. Now, it's just protecting them from the consequences of that.


I know I already replied to this, but why we are on the argument of a partisan court.

The Justice Department and by extension the President sided with the town conducting these prayers.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/05/sympo ... ore-209736

Now wouldn't a partisan court have found a reason to go against President Obama ?
Last edited by Greed and Death on Tue May 06, 2014 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 06, 2014 5:40 pm

Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.

Anyone may sign up and the town did have wiccan and Bah’ai religious leaders give prayers.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue May 06, 2014 6:57 pm

greed and death wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:The solution is to, of course, start having Satanic prayers before town hall meetings to balance out the disgusting prayers of Christians.

Anyone may sign up and the town did have wiccan and Bah’ai religious leaders give prayers.

No shit. Which is why I said it.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 06, 2014 7:55 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
greed and death wrote:Anyone may sign up and the town did have wiccan and Bah’ai religious leaders give prayers.

No shit. Which is why I said it.

I have a feeling the Wiccan was trying to do the same thing you would be doing with the satanist. Annoy the Christians into changing their mind. Since most small town Xtians like the ones at issues consider wiccans=Satanist I doubt you will get anywhere.
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Postby Utceforp » Tue May 06, 2014 7:59 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Hey, look at what's already happening.

Roanoke County’s Board of Supervisors may be headed toward another discussion of prayer following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling handed down Monday. The board dealt with the matter in 2012, eventually passing a nonsectarian prayer policy that Supervisor Al Bedrosian is ready to strike from the books.
“The freedom of religion doesn’t mean that every religion has to be heard,” said Bedrosian, who added that he is concerned about groups such as Wiccans and Satanists. “If we allow everything … where do you draw the line?”
The supervisor campaigned on the idea of eliminating the policy, and the ruling has breathed new life into his idea for a policy that could lead to the exclusion of non-Christian groups from the invocation.
Commenting on Monday, Bedrosian said he envisions a setup by which the supervisors would approve, individually, people from their districts to offer the opening prayer. That system would hold supervisors accountable to their districts, he added.
When asked if he would allow representatives from non-Christian faiths and non-faiths, including Jews, Muslims, atheists and others, the Hollins District supervisor said he likely would not.

If I had a dollar for every person who was surprised by this, I would be dirt-poor.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 06, 2014 8:05 pm

SCOTUS, why do you make me hate you so?
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Tue May 06, 2014 8:17 pm

greed and death wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:No shit. Which is why I said it.

I have a feeling the Wiccan was trying to do the same thing you would be doing with the satanist. Annoy the Christians into changing their mind. Since most small town Xtians like the ones at issues consider wiccans=Satanist I doubt you will get anywhere.

You DO know what a joke is, right?
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Tue May 06, 2014 8:36 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Hey, look at what's already happening.

Roanoke County’s Board of Supervisors may be headed toward another discussion of prayer following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling handed down Monday. The board dealt with the matter in 2012, eventually passing a nonsectarian prayer policy that Supervisor Al Bedrosian is ready to strike from the books.
“The freedom of religion doesn’t mean that every religion has to be heard,” said Bedrosian, who added that he is concerned about groups such as Wiccans and Satanists. “If we allow everything … where do you draw the line?”
The supervisor campaigned on the idea of eliminating the policy, and the ruling has breathed new life into his idea for a policy that could lead to the exclusion of non-Christian groups from the invocation.
Commenting on Monday, Bedrosian said he envisions a setup by which the supervisors would approve, individually, people from their districts to offer the opening prayer. That system would hold supervisors accountable to their districts, he added.
When asked if he would allow representatives from non-Christian faiths and non-faiths, including Jews, Muslims, atheists and others, the Hollins District supervisor said he likely would not.



Kennedy has already been on a school prayer case and found it violates the establishment clause.
Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000) and Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992).

So it is unlikely school prayer will be upheld. Town of Greece very likely represents as far as prayer during officials activities goes.
Last edited by Greed and Death on Tue May 06, 2014 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Tue May 06, 2014 9:54 pm

greed and death wrote:



Kennedy has already been on a school prayer case and found it violates the establishment clause.
Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000) and Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992).

So it is unlikely school prayer will be upheld. Town of Greece very likely represents as far as prayer during officials activities goes.


This has nothing to do with school prayer.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Wed May 07, 2014 6:07 am

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
greed and death wrote:

Kennedy has already been on a school prayer case and found it violates the establishment clause.
Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000) and Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992).

So it is unlikely school prayer will be upheld. Town of Greece very likely represents as far as prayer during officials activities goes.


This has nothing to do with school prayer.


My bad i read supervisors as superintendent.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed May 07, 2014 7:34 am

Galloism wrote:SCOTUS, why do you make me hate you so?

You hate freedom of religion? Wow I can't believe in oppression.
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JeebusCrust
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Postby JeebusCrust » Wed May 07, 2014 7:35 am

Galloism wrote:SCOTUS, why do you make me hate you so?

They're masochists.

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