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by Neutraligon » Mon May 05, 2014 4:28 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Mon May 05, 2014 4:29 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Greed here's the problem with the not forced to be there idea. A townhall meeting is a chance for the citizens to directly contact their representatives. By saying they don't have to attend you are also removing one more avenue for them to discuss their feelings and issues in a public setting. In legislative sessions, the public may watch, but they do not directly participate.
by Baader-Meinhof Gruppe » Mon May 05, 2014 4:30 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Neutraligon wrote:Greed here's the problem with the not forced to be there idea. A townhall meeting is a chance for the citizens to directly contact their representatives. By saying they don't have to attend you are also removing one more avenue for them to discuss their feelings and issues in a public setting. In legislative sessions, the public may watch, but they do not directly participate.
You don't HAVE to be a witness at a trial, you just have to declare your allegiance to allah before you can be.
by Ostroeuropa » Mon May 05, 2014 4:31 pm
by Greed and Death » Mon May 05, 2014 4:31 pm
Death Metal wrote:greed and death wrote:So since you are not required to serve as an elected official, you are not required to sit through meetings opened with a prayer ?
That's not even the point of the objection. People are objecting because it's an endorsement of religion.
And let's be honest; if this was Dearborn and it was Muslim prayer, the five that upheld this law would strike it down faster than you can blink.
by The Scientific States » Mon May 05, 2014 4:36 pm
by Greed and Death » Mon May 05, 2014 4:37 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Greed here's the problem with the not forced to be there idea. A townhall meeting is a chance for the citizens to directly contact their representatives. By saying they don't have to attend you are also removing one more avenue for them to discuss their feelings and issues in a public setting. In legislative sessions, the public may watch, but they do not directly participate.
by Neutraligon » Mon May 05, 2014 4:42 pm
greed and death wrote:Neutraligon wrote:Greed here's the problem with the not forced to be there idea. A townhall meeting is a chance for the citizens to directly contact their representatives. By saying they don't have to attend you are also removing one more avenue for them to discuss their feelings and issues in a public setting. In legislative sessions, the public may watch, but they do not directly participate.
You can also write them a letter, or attend their campaign events, or make an appointment to talk with them in their office( really easy for municipal government). Attending a city council meeting is but one small way to be involved. If the prayer really bothers and you really need to be at the meeting you that much just attend the meetings a little late after the prayer is done.
If you were required to pray or listen to someone pray before voting I would be all with you. But you are not.
by Greed and Death » Mon May 05, 2014 4:49 pm
Neutraligon wrote:greed and death wrote:You can also write them a letter, or attend their campaign events, or make an appointment to talk with them in their office( really easy for municipal government). Attending a city council meeting is but one small way to be involved. If the prayer really bothers and you really need to be at the meeting you that much just attend the meetings a little late after the prayer is done.
If you were required to pray or listen to someone pray before voting I would be all with you. But you are not.
But you cannot do these things in public. The letter is private, so is the meeting. The campaign event is not geared towards answering detailed or specific questions. So now you are forcing people to arrive late at the meeting? Brilliant. Public meetings like this are one of the few ways a person can get their issues heard by many people. It is one of the few ways to air grievances in public, without having to campaign.
by Bezombia » Mon May 05, 2014 4:50 pm
greed and death wrote:Neutraligon wrote:
But you cannot do these things in public. The letter is private, so is the meeting. The campaign event is not geared towards answering detailed or specific questions. So now you are forcing people to arrive late at the meeting? Brilliant. Public meetings like this are one of the few ways a person can get their issues heard by many people. It is one of the few ways to air grievances in public, without having to campaign.
Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Fordorsia wrote:mfw Beano is my dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWiMoO8zNE
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
by MERIZoC » Mon May 05, 2014 4:53 pm
greed and death wrote:Neutraligon wrote:
But you cannot do these things in public. The letter is private, so is the meeting. The campaign event is not geared towards answering detailed or specific questions. So now you are forcing people to arrive late at the meeting? Brilliant. Public meetings like this are one of the few ways a person can get their issues heard by many people. It is one of the few ways to air grievances in public, without having to campaign.
Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
by Greed and Death » Mon May 05, 2014 4:56 pm
Merizoc wrote:greed and death wrote:Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
So why aren't other people's views being respected? Why, after the Christian prayer, isn't there a Muslim prayer? Or a Hindu prayer?
by Silent Majority » Mon May 05, 2014 4:57 pm
by Great Nepal » Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
by Othelos » Mon May 05, 2014 5:28 pm
greed and death wrote:So NSG what do you say is this good tolerance of religion or is this an impermissible violations of the establishment clause?
by Roan Cara » Mon May 05, 2014 5:36 pm
by Bezombia » Mon May 05, 2014 5:38 pm
Roan Cara wrote:I love the double standard I see here all the time. So basically it is more than fine for non christians to protest all kinds of christian things but let a christian protest anything or stand up for their beliefs about anything and everyone is butthurt about it. Now me, I am my own Person and my own Christian I do not go for alot of the very stereotypical views christians get foisted with on this site such as the whole anti gay thing or the abortion thing etc but I do think that people who have those beliefs have just as much right to express them and stand for them as you all do to express your beliefs and opinions. In this case, I wonder how many of the people who attend these meetings are christian or just agnostic and just plain don't care if there is a prayer or not and that being the case why on earth is it anyone elses business? especially if they don't live in that town or community? how is it their business?
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Fordorsia wrote:mfw Beano is my dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWiMoO8zNE
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
by Azinar » Mon May 05, 2014 5:39 pm
greed and death wrote:Neutraligon wrote:
But you cannot do these things in public. The letter is private, so is the meeting. The campaign event is not geared towards answering detailed or specific questions. So now you are forcing people to arrive late at the meeting? Brilliant. Public meetings like this are one of the few ways a person can get their issues heard by many people. It is one of the few ways to air grievances in public, without having to campaign.
Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
by Fascist Russian Empire » Mon May 05, 2014 5:45 pm
by Othelos » Mon May 05, 2014 5:50 pm
Fascist Russian Empire wrote:Good. Just because a few atheists don't like hearing prayers doesn't give them the right to stop other people from praying. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to; the United States has freedom of religion and freedom of expression, and people have the right to pray in public if they want to, and no matter how offended atheists and anti-theists might be by it, they don't have the right to stop it.
by Ostroeuropa » Mon May 05, 2014 5:50 pm
Azinar wrote:greed and death wrote:Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
Ostroeuropa made a good point a few posts ago about sitting through the prayer. By declining to involve yourself in the prayer you are setting yourself apart from the rest of the group. This can create tension and make it more difficult to get people to listen to your ideas.
And why do the people who don't want to pray have to arrive late or sit out and exclude themselves? Why not the people who want to pray arrive early or pray outside in the hall? The prayer is an addition to the meeting, not a key part of it.
by Bezombia » Mon May 05, 2014 5:51 pm
Fascist Russian Empire wrote:Good. Just because a few atheists don't like hearing prayers doesn't give them the right to stop other people from praying. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to; the United States has freedom of religion and freedom of expression, and people have the right to pray in public if they want to, and no matter how offended atheists and anti-theists might be by it, they don't have the right to stop it.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Fordorsia wrote:mfw Beano is my dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWiMoO8zNE
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
by Fascist Russian Empire » Mon May 05, 2014 5:55 pm
Othelos wrote:People do have a right to stop government sponsored prayer. The precedent was established with Engel vs. Vitale, which barred administrative-sponsored prayer in schools.
Bezombia wrote:If we can't force our views down your throat, why can you force your views down ours?
by Cetacea » Mon May 05, 2014 5:56 pm
Azinar wrote:greed and death wrote:Arrive late, sit out in the hallway, or just learn to be an adult and accept elected people may have beliefs that differ from yours and sit quietly through that old guy's prayer.
Ostroeuropa made a good point a few posts ago about sitting through the prayer. By declining to involve yourself in the prayer you are setting yourself apart from the rest of the group. This can create tension and make it more difficult to get people to listen to your ideas.
And why do the people who don't want to pray have to arrive late or sit out and exclude themselves? Why not the people who want to pray arrive early or pray outside in the hall? The prayer is an addition to the meeting, not a key part of it.
by Bezombia » Mon May 05, 2014 5:57 pm
Fascist Russian Empire wrote:Nobody is forcing jack shit down your throat by holding non-sectarian, non-mandated prayer. Unless you get forced to do something, you just have to deal with the fact that freedom of speech and freedom of religion means people can pray whenever they want, government property or not.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Fordorsia wrote:mfw Beano is my dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWiMoO8zNE
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
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