Gun Control - A Political Thread

[Big Jim P]

This didn't really change my opinion.

However, I said "as a starting point" meaning that it could be inspiration for a gun control law; it wouldn't be copied word for word. A law would need to be unique to the American experience of gun violence and gun control. However, Canada is a good place to compare and use for inspiration because it has a mix of urban centers (i.e. Toronto is similar to New York City) and rural areas with a 'gun culture' (places like Alberta have a gun culture).

I'd rather we focus on making sure the NICS check is as accurate as possible, enforce sentencing for gun crimes, and stop going after feel good/do nothing laws that don't affect crime.

I still say we should increase the penalties for crimes in which a gun is used. Conduct the trial, make the sentence, then triple it (or however much it takes).

[Gun Manufacturers]

The AR15 can be configured to shoot rounds ranging from .22lr to .50 BMG.

I would like one in .17 Remington and another in .204 Ruger Just because.

Personally, I'd consider buying an upper chambered in .22WMR, but I can't seem to find anyone making one.

[Spirit of Hope]

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

You don't get the point of the black market, do you? Machine guns are illegal, yet the BM continues to sell that shit.

Machine guns aren't illegal funnily enough. 40% of criminals report getting their guns from family, now you can debate whether the family knew or not a back ground check requirement here would put them in the situation of getting arrested for trading a gun without back ground check or for trading a gun to a person known to not be able to get guns.

Additionally it would make straw purchases (another favorite for getting illegal guns) much more prosecutable. You can't just say "I didn't know any more".

So yes the black market exists but it is not as large a part as you seem to think it is.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsible for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

Please tell me you are being facetious?

Your right it won't end all illegal gun sales, it is a strong tool to fight the transfer of guns to those who should not have them.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

That depends what would this "enforced" background check consist of.

Personally it would be that any transfer of ownership of the gun (even as a gift and to family members) would have to go through a licensed dealer who would preform a background check. I would require the check to be quick (if you can't have a gun your name is on a list, you check the name of the new owner agains the list) and either free or low cost.

I would be fine with simply making this list open access in some way though and sim;ply require checking it before a transfer of ownership.

[Chernoslavia]

1. Wrong, an AR-15 is not the most common weapon in a school shooting. If you still disagree then source that shit.

2. The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It's a semi automatic sporting rifle.

3. The NRA doesn't refuse background checks, they just don't support the Universal Background Check bill that Obama wanted to pass in 2012. This law mind you has nothing to do with background checks and will do nothing but make it illegal to even touch your friend's firearm.

4. So you support a prohibition on the AR-15 and very strict so-called background checks, but you hope that NRA members get killed in a mass shooting? Yup, very progressive indeed.

1. Here. It seems I was wrong about the AR-15 being the most common, but it's still very common.

2. Yes, this was already explained to me, I'm not big on guns as you can see

3. They've been universally opposed to pretty much everything that will reduce the money they make, like almost all companies.

4. Society as we know it dies when humour does.

1. They are owned by millions of law abiding gun owners and only a few dozen are used in shootings, that isn't many. And Adam Lanza didn't use his AR-15 in sandy hook he used two pistols.

2. Which is why it's sensible to educate yourself a little about them. One of the reasons why an anti gun law passes in some state is because people lack even the most basic knowledges of firearms.

3. Because the majority of those proposals are based off of fear mongering and won't solve anything about gun crime. And the NRA gets their money from their members, not gun sales or any of that exaggerative bullshit. The NRA isn't a gun company last I checked.

4. I didn't find that funny, but whatever.

[Chernoslavia]

okay here's my thoughts

1. backgrounds checks, no guns for mentally ill/felons

2. all guns except crazy shit like grenade launchers are allowed

3. everyone is happy

True, true.

But using a 5.56.. no trophy for you.

you do know that .308 is bigger than 5.56 right

2. Grenade launchers are legal to own yet have never been used in a crime. So there's no reason to ban them.

[Chernoslavia]

You don't get the point of the black market, do you? Machine guns are illegal, yet the BM continues to sell that shit.

Machine guns aren't illegal funnily enough. 40% of criminals report getting their guns from family, now you can debate whether the family knew or not a back ground check requirement here would put them in the situation of getting arrested for trading a gun without back ground check or for trading a gun to a person known to not be able to get guns.

Additionally it would make straw purchases (another favorite for getting illegal guns) much more prosecutable. You can't just say "I didn't know any more".

So yes the black market exists but it is not as large a part as you seem to think it is.

Please tell me you are being facetious?

Your right it won't end all illegal gun sales, it is a strong tool to fight the transfer of guns to those who should not have them.

That depends what would this "enforced" background check consist of.

Personally it would be that any transfer of ownership of the gun (even as a gift and to family members) would have to go through a licensed dealer who would preform a background check. I would require the check to be quick (if you can't have a gun your name is on a list, you check the name of the new owner agains the list) and either free or low cost.

I would be fine with simply making this list open access in some way though and sim;ply require checking it before a transfer of ownership.

Eh. I'd rather go with Big Jim's suggestion a few pages back.

[Spirit of Hope]

Machine guns aren't illegal funnily enough. 40% of criminals report getting their guns from family, now you can debate whether the family knew or not a back ground check requirement here would put them in the situation of getting arrested for trading a gun without back ground check or for trading a gun to a person known to not be able to get guns.

Additionally it would make straw purchases (another favorite for getting illegal guns) much more prosecutable. You can't just say "I didn't know any more".

So yes the black market exists but it is not as large a part as you seem to think it is.


Your right it won't end all illegal gun sales, it is a strong tool to fight the transfer of guns to those who should not have them.




Personally it would be that any transfer of ownership of the gun (even as a gift and to family members) would have to go through a licensed dealer who would preform a background check. I would require the check to be quick (if you can't have a gun your name is on a list, you check the name of the new owner agains the list) and either free or low cost.

I would be fine with simply making this list open access in some way though and sim;ply require checking it before a transfer of ownership.

Eh. I'd rather go with Big Jim's suggestion a few pages back.

I've seen his suggestion a number of times and largely like it. I just differ a little on what my ideal answer would be. I don't think my solution is horrible, and I think it would be very easy to work in with the existing frame work without inconveniencing anyone to much.

[Sociobiology]

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

You don't get the point of the black market, do you? Machine guns are illegal, yet the BM continues to sell that shit.

in countries with real gun control the black market exists but is small because it is high risk, and hard to come by stock. right now we have a huge gray market, sales that would probably be illegal if we actually made people check first.

[Chernoslavia]

Eh. I'd rather go with Big Jim's suggestion a few pages back.

I've seen his suggestion a number of times and largely like it. I just differ a little on what my ideal answer would be. I don't think my solution is horrible, and I think it would be very easy to work in with the existing frame work without inconveniencing anyone to much.

Not saying it's terrible, in fact it's good. I just don't wanna drive miles to my nearest gun store just to give a gun to my friend.

[Spirit of Hope]

I've seen his suggestion a number of times and largely like it. I just differ a little on what my ideal answer would be. I don't think my solution is horrible, and I think it would be very easy to work in with the existing frame work without inconveniencing anyone to much.

Not saying it's terrible, in fact it's good. I just don't wanna drive miles to my nearest gun store just to give a gun to my friend.

I know, that is the one problem with the proposal, it does really inconvenience those without a nearby gun retailer. The problem is I don't trust people enough to let them do it by themselves.

I would also sneak the guns into getting recorded on the Federal Transaction Record

[Sociobiology]

Personally it would be that any transfer of ownership of the gun (even as a gift and to family members) would have to go through a licensed dealer who would preform a background check. I would require the check to be quick (if you can't have a gun your name is on a list, you check the name of the new owner agains the list) and either free or low cost.

I would be fine with simply making this list open access in some way though and simply require checking it before a transfer of ownership.

except a open list like that is both a massive violation of privacy rights and just asking for abuse like not hiring anyone on the list, or not renting to them.

[Chernoslavia]

Not saying it's terrible, in fact it's good. I just don't wanna drive miles to my nearest gun store just to give a gun to my friend.

I know, that is the one problem with the proposal, it does really inconvenience those without a nearby gun retailer. The problem is I don't trust people enough to let them do it by themselves.

I would also sneak the guns into getting recorded on the Federal Transaction Record

Oh that already happens, though the record is destroyed within 24 hrs.

[Spirit of Hope]

Personally it would be that any transfer of ownership of the gun (even as a gift and to family members) would have to go through a licensed dealer who would preform a background check. I would require the check to be quick (if you can't have a gun your name is on a list, you check the name of the new owner agains the list) and either free or low cost.

I would be fine with simply making this list open access in some way though and simply require checking it before a transfer of ownership.

except a open list like that is both a massive violation of privacy rights and just asking for abuse like not hiring anyone on the list, or not renting to them.

Which is why I don't like the open list, if it remains a tool only accessible to licensed firearms dealers there is a much smaller risk. Additionally use of it for no firearms uses would be an offense and the system could be set up to keep track of who is being checked.

Additionally the only two big things that lose you the ability to own firearms are criminal activities and mental handicaps. Both of which are usually required to be disclosed for employment anyways.

[Spreewerke]

Just gonna leave a small fact here for you to consider:

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Think about that.

Now consider that the NRA stalwartly refuses the very concept of background checks.

Every day, I find a new reason to hate those despicable little sheits.

Can we please have an NRA office shooting soon?

Guess what else is freely available to people younger than 25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ptqNMGg948

Guess what is available to FELONS!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCt0QY66Z38

OH MY SWEET DEITY!

Oh, and since that cannon is muzzle-loaded and blackpowder, it is considered an antique and doesn't require a background check. AT. ALL.

Obviously, we're only days away from someone building an artillery unit in wood shop and blowing holes through the entire school district.

It has nothing to do with the weapon. An AR-15 is no more dangerous than the Mini-14 which is no more dangerous than the Benelli MR1.

[Sociobiology]

except a open list like that is both a massive violation of privacy rights and just asking for abuse like not hiring anyone on the list, or not renting to them.

Which is why I don't like the open list, if it remains a tool only accessible to licensed firearms dealers there is a much smaller risk. Additionally use of it for no firearms uses would be an offense and the system could be set up to keep track of who is being checked.

I like this I might include that in my plan.

Additionally the only two big things that lose you the ability to own firearms are criminal activities and mental handicaps. Both of which are usually required to be disclosed for employment anyways.

actually no employees only have to disclose those under certain circumstances. its actually an amazingly intricate portion of the law.

[Spirit of Hope]

Which is why I don't like the open list, if it remains a tool only accessible to licensed firearms dealers there is a much smaller risk. Additionally use of it for no firearms uses would be an offense and the system could be set up to keep track of who is being checked.

I like this I might include that in my plan.

Additionally the only two big things that lose you the ability to own firearms are criminal activities and mental handicaps. Both of which are usually required to be disclosed for employment anyways.

actually no employees only have to disclose those under certain circumstances. its actually an amazingly intricate portion of the law.

Every single time I have been employed I have been asked if I have ever been convicted of a felony. Then again most of my jobs have me dealing with children so that might be why I have a slight misunderstanding.

Really though what I am proposing already exists in the form of the NICBCS the FBI claims most checks are done in minutes, though they reserve the right to take up to three days.

[Sociobiology]

I like this I might include that in my plan.


actually no employees only have to disclose those under certain circumstances. its actually an amazingly intricate portion of the law.

Every single time I have been employed I have been asked if I have ever been convicted of a felony. Then again most of my jobs have me dealing with children so that might be why I have a slight misunderstanding.

Really though what I am proposing already exists in the form of the NICBCS the FBI claims most checks are done in minutes, though they reserve the right to take up to three days.

I meant include the non-gun related search.
and children would be one of those certain circumstances.

[Imperializt Russia]

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Nope.

Not sure what your problem is about the age, since most infantry recruits, who are liberally handed M16s, are well under 25.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Not saying it's terrible, in fact it's good. I just don't wanna drive miles to my nearest gun store just to give a gun to my friend.

I know, that is the one problem with the proposal, it does really inconvenience those without a nearby gun retailer. The problem is I don't trust people enough to let them do it by themselves.

I would also sneak the guns into getting recorded on the Federal Transaction Record

Why not?

[Gaiserin]

Searching through the cabinet. We have:
3 Shotguns, two of which are double-barreled.
Revolver + 9mm.
Machete.

Oh and the baseball bat downstairs, also a rifle in the basement.

As in a .38 or .380 revolver?

.38 I believe. It is very rusty and worn off though, so its usability is close to zero.

Edit; I one the shotguns is Kassnar 12 GA.

[Big Jim P]

As in a .38 or .380 revolver?

.38 I believe. It is very rusty and worn off though, so its usability is close to zero.

Edit; I one the shotguns is Kassnar 12 GA.

i would get rid of a revolver in that condition (unless it was a very rare historical item). It is extremely dangerous.

[Big Jim P]

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Nope.

Not sure what your problem is about the age, since most infantry recruits, who are liberally handed M16s, are well under 25.

Some as young as 17. Plus, a lot of shooters start shooting at much younger ages. I started shooting around 5 or 6.

[Calisu]

Ban guns. There is no reason you need to own a gun. They are not for defence or sport they are for murder.

[Big Jim P]

I like this I might include that in my plan.


actually no employees only have to disclose those under certain circumstances. its actually an amazingly intricate portion of the law.

Every single time I have been employed I have been asked if I have ever been convicted of a felony. Then again most of my jobs have me dealing with children so that might be why I have a slight misunderstanding.

Really though what I am proposing already exists in the form of the NICBCS the FBI claims most checks are done in minutes, though they reserve the right to take up to three days.

Same here. Every application I have ever filled out asked about felony convictions, with a disclaimer listing three or four states where you were not required to answer.

Plus, not all felonies should cause one to lose their gun rights. Many are non-violent and do not involve guns in any way.

[Big Jim P]

Ban guns. There is no reason you need to own a gun. They are not for defence or sport they are for murder.

Look at the links in my sig. B=Guns are often used for defense, many are specifically designed for such (few are actually designed for murder), and the vast majority of the 300 million or so in private hands in the States are never used in crime. Care to try again?