Gun Control - A Political Thread

[Gun Manufacturers]

Vz.58s aren't AK-pattern.

The funny thing is, the Vz.58 would have been banned in CT even before Sandy Hook, based on the "looks like a duck" test, and the fact that it's chambered in 7.62x39mm (because of those 2 criteria, they'd consider it an AK47 type). The CT General Assembly is pretty stupid.

[Spreewerke]

Vz.58s aren't AK-pattern.

The funny thing is, the Vz.58 would have been banned in CT even before Sandy Hook, based on the "looks like a duck" test, and the fact that it's chambered in 7.62x39mm (because of those 2 criteria, they'd consider it an AK47 type). The CT General Assembly is pretty stupid.

Nah, they probably would have banned it because the Vz.58 has more in common with the P.38 than the AK, and everyone knows only Nazis own P.38s.

[Idaho Conservatives]

Vz.58s aren't AK-pattern.

Yeah, they aren't AK's per se - I've heard them best described as the love child of an AK and an SKS. I would call them a cousin of the AK family though.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The funny thing is, the Vz.58 would have been banned in CT even before Sandy Hook, based on the "looks like a duck" test, and the fact that it's chambered in 7.62x39mm (because of those 2 criteria, they'd consider it an AK47 type). The CT General Assembly is pretty stupid.

Nah, they probably would have banned it because the Vz.58 has more in common with the P.38 than the AK, and everyone knows only Nazis own P.38s.

Even worse than that. 'Twas those dastardly commie-nazis in Czechoslovakia which made the thing. Looks like a commie piece of work but functions like a Nazi piece of work. Truly the worst combination there could be.

[Spreewerke]

Nah, they probably would have banned it because the Vz.58 has more in common with the P.38 than the AK, and everyone knows only Nazis own P.38s.

Even worse than that. 'Twas those dastardly commie-nazis in Czechoslovakia which made the thing. Looks like a commie piece of work but functions like a Nazi piece of work. Truly the worst combination there could be.

Yeah, and those dirty Czechen communazis bombed the marathon!

[Burleson]

Criminals don't tend to follow laws. Why would a law against owning an assault rifle stop them from doing that if the laws against murder don't stop them?

[Gaiserin]

Searching through the cabinet. We have:
3 Shotguns, two of which are double-barreled.
Revolver + 9mm.
Machete.

Oh and the baseball bat downstairs, also a rifle in the basement.

[Sociobiology]

Criminals don't tend to follow laws. Why would a law against owning an assault rifle stop them from doing that if the laws against murder don't stop them?

the law doesn't stop them, the background check and the law stop the seller from selling it, because they become liable.

[Tule]

Criminals don't tend to follow laws. Why would a law against owning an assault rifle stop them from doing that if the laws against murder don't stop them?

62% of homicides in urban America are committed by people with no previous felony conviction. One third have no previous arrest record.

The common belief that gun crime is committed overwhelmingly by career criminals that have the necessary connections to obtain assault rifles is a myth. Most gun murders are crimes of passion, the result of an argument that just happened to take place in close proximity to an easily accessible gun.
The same can be said for gun suicides, many of them are in fact not acts of careful deliberation but impulsive, fleeting sense of panic.

I don't think guns should be banned, I even think that assault rifle ownership can be justified. But I think far too many people do not respect the indiscriminate lethality that guns provide.

[Big Jim P]

Criminals don't tend to follow laws. Why would a law against owning an assault rifle stop them from doing that if the laws against murder don't stop them?

62% of homicides in urban America are committed by people with no previous felony conviction. One third have no previous arrest record.

The common belief that gun crime is committed overwhelmingly by career criminals that have the necessary connections to obtain assault rifles is a myth. Most gun murders are crimes of passion, the result of an argument that just happened to take place in close proximity to an easily accessible gun.
The same can be said for gun suicides, many of them are in fact not acts of careful deliberation but impulsive, fleeting sense of panic.

I don't think guns should be banned, I even think that assault rifle ownership can be justified. But I think far too many people do not respect the indiscriminate lethality that guns provide.

Both of which are handily out-weighed by the benefits of gun ownership, and heavily outnumbered by the number of guns that are never used in crime and the gun-owners that never commit a gun-crime.

[Tule]

62% of homicides in urban America are committed by people with no previous felony conviction. One third have no previous arrest record.

The common belief that gun crime is committed overwhelmingly by career criminals that have the necessary connections to obtain assault rifles is a myth. Most gun murders are crimes of passion, the result of an argument that just happened to take place in close proximity to an easily accessible gun.
The same can be said for gun suicides, many of them are in fact not acts of careful deliberation but impulsive, fleeting sense of panic.

I don't think guns should be banned, I even think that assault rifle ownership can be justified. But I think far too many people do not respect the indiscriminate lethality that guns provide.

Both of which are handily out-weighed by the benefits of gun ownership, and heavily outnumbered by the number of guns that are never used in crime and the gun-owners that never commit a gun-crime.

The latter, definitely.

The former... arguably.

There are many good reasons to allow civilian gun ownership, but public safety isn't one of them.

Remember, Austria disarmed licensed, law-abiding gun owners, not career criminals, yet the rate of gun suicides and homicides dropped.

[Spirit of Hope]

Both of which are handily out-weighed by the benefits of gun ownership, and heavily outnumbered by the number of guns that are never used in crime and the gun-owners that never commit a gun-crime.

The latter, definitely.

The former... arguably.

There are many good reasons to allow civilian gun ownership, but public safety isn't one of them.

Remember, Austria disarmed licensed, law-abiding gun owners, not career criminals, yet the rate of gun suicides and homicides dropped.

Yes, but did the overall homicide and suicide rate decrease?

[Big Jim P]

Both of which are handily out-weighed by the benefits of gun ownership, and heavily outnumbered by the number of guns that are never used in crime and the gun-owners that never commit a gun-crime.

The latter, definitely.

The former... arguably.

There are many good reasons to allow civilian gun ownership, but public safety isn't one of them.

Remember, Austria disarmed licensed, law-abiding gun owners, not career criminals, yet the rate of gun suicides and homicides dropped.

I was speaking about American gun-control. Foreign stats do not apply.

Note: I always speak about American gun laws. The gun laws in other countries are none of my business.

[Chernoslavia]

In many states, there's a hunter's safety course in order to legally hunt. For example, in Connecticut the Department of Energy & Environmental Protection runs the course.

They used to teach that course in High School as an elective back in the day even. Wish they still did.

Nowadays if you even bring a Guns & Ammo magazine and start reading it at lunch. You could get suspended like I have during my high school years.

[Chernoslavia]

I think a good model for gun control would be something resembling Canadian laws as a start: they have a similar culture to us that is very multicultural (so there's no qualms about 'cultural differences' when comparing policies), and have very good outcomes in terms of violent crime, gun crime, and homicides. There's a decent mix of gun ownership and gun control, and I think that using Canadian law as a starting point would be a good decision.

Details gotta put details.

1. If we have Canadian style gun control. My AK rifles would be banned from further sale, manufacture, import, and ownership.

2. My girlfriend's little "pocket pistol" collection would be banned like the AK47/74s and she would need to get a Prohibited Firearms license which I hear is almost impossible to get in Canada. Did I also mention that she wouldn't be allowed to sell or transfer them to anyone. Once she passes away, we would have to turn them in to the police where they will destroy it. The only exception is that she can only transfer a short pistol to another Prohibited Firearms licensee.

3. Full autos would no longer be transferable and would eventually suffer the same as pocket pistols and derringers. And have I were to still have my Full-auto AK, I would've have to get a Restricted Firearms license (also nearly impossible to get in Canada). The only exception is that a full auto can only be transferred or passed down to another Restricted Firearms licensee.

4. No one will be able to apply for neither a restricted or Prohibited Firearms license because in the 90s A law was passed in Canada that closed off future applications. That means no full autos and no "short barreled" pistols for future would-be applicants.

5. Skeletal stocks and folding stocks will be banned.

6. I most likely wouldn't be able to SBR my PS90 no matter what license I have.

So no. We don't want Canada's gun laws.

[Chernoslavia]

Searching through the cabinet. We have:
3 Shotguns, two of which are double-barreled.
Revolver + 9mm.
Machete.

Oh and the baseball bat downstairs, also a rifle in the basement.

As in a .38 or .380 revolver?

[Boston and Surrounding Provinces]

Criminals don't tend to follow laws. Why would a law against owning an assault rifle stop them from doing that if the laws against murder don't stop them?

the law doesn't stop them, the background check and the law stop the seller from selling it, because they become liable.

Black Market, buddy.

[Spirit of Hope]

the law doesn't stop them, the background check and the law stop the seller from selling it, because they become liable.

Black Market, buddy.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

[Boston and Surrounding Provinces]

Black Market, buddy.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

You don't get the point of the black market, do you? Machine guns are illegal, yet the BM continues to sell that shit.

[Grinning Dragon]

Black Market, buddy.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsible for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

Please tell me you are being facetious?

[Chernoslavia]

Black Market, buddy.

Yes the black market exists but currently individuals are not responsiable for checking the backgrounds of those they are selling to. This makes control of the black market a little more difficult. With enforced background checks for all purchase this problem is closed.

That depends what would this "enforced" background check consist of.

[Serrian]

Just gonna leave a small fact here for you to consider:

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Think about that.

Now consider that the NRA stalwartly refuses the very concept of background checks.

Every day, I find a new reason to hate those despicable little sheits.

Can we please have an NRA office shooting soon?

[Grinning Dragon]

Just gonna leave a small fact here for you to consider:

1.Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Think about that.

Now consider that the NRA stalwartly refuses the very concept of background checks.

Every day, I find a new reason to hate those despicable little sheits.

Can we please have an NRA office shooting soon?

1. Wrong, try again

[Boston and Surrounding Provinces]

Just gonna leave a small fact here for you to consider:

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Think about that.

Now consider that the NRA stalwartly refuses the very concept of background checks.

Every day, I find a new reason to hate those despicable little sheits.

Can we please have an NRA office shooting soon?

Ahem. AR-15 is NOT automatic. It is a semi auto assault rifle, just like the M1 Garand or the 9MM Pistol. One pull, equals one shot.

[Serrian]

Just gonna leave a small fact here for you to consider:

Apparently the most common weapon used in American school shootings is the AR-15. That's an automatic, military-grade assault rifle. Freely available to people younger than 25.

Think about that.

Now consider that the NRA stalwartly refuses the very concept of background checks.

Every day, I find a new reason to hate those despicable little sheits.

Can we please have an NRA office shooting soon?

Ahem. AR-15 is NOT automatic. It is a semi auto assault rifle, just like the M1 Garand or the 9MM Pistol. One pull, equals one shot.

Okay, sorry, not much of a gun expert here. Semi-autos are still basically full-autos if you can squeeze the trigger fast enough, plus it gives you more space for recoil stabilization.

Point is, military grade assault rifle. Barely-adult college kids and high-schoolers.