The REAL reason Vermont is now relevant

[Distruzio]

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

As he himself just said, he is one of those edgy people who has been led to blame democracy for all his problems. To him, hiving people less power is a good thing, so as twisted as it may sound don't try fighting him with that argument.

Same exact thing if Vazdania comes on.

Considering that I didn't make that a focal point of my questioning... it'd be a rather fruitless "argument" to engage in, I agree.

[West Afrika]

Prefer New Hampshire. Income tax in Vermont is shit.

[Llamalandia]

This is bad? Why?

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Given that the franchise is extended to all but felons, under 18's and dead people, I fail to see how the majority lacks influence in politics. I mean, if you don't like your elected leaders vote for someone else then. Heck, the internet makes it possible to organize much more easily now then ever before.

[Frenequesta]

Good for them.

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Given that the franchise is extended to all but felons, under 18's and dead people, I fail to see how the majority lacks influence in politics. I mean, if you don't like your elected leaders vote for someone else then. Heck, the internet makes it possible to organize much more easily now then ever before.

Perhaps we need to separate "what people think they want" from "what is best for them".

[The Liberated Territories]

Don't care for Vermont. Connericut>Vermont

Abolish the idea that corporations are individuals so we can be a capitalist society once again.

[Geilinor]

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Given that the franchise is extended to all but felons, under 18's and dead people, I fail to see how the majority lacks influence in politics. I mean, if you don't like your elected leaders vote for someone else then. Heck, the internet makes it possible to organize much more easily now then ever before.

The majority may have votes, but non-voters (corporations) have a lot of money to spend on their interests.

[Greed and Death]

How do you get "money out of politics"? They only way to actually do that would be to ban political donations. The most we can do is reduce the amount of money.

The phrase "get money out of politics" doesn't literally mean we're removing money. It means we're removing it's influence over election results. Which can be done in a number of manners, such as restoring previous restrictions on private donations, or by making election campaings publicly funded instead of funded by private donation, like some states and local governments do.

Interesting point, even if we publicly fund campaigns I am not sure we can stop private funding.
We most certainly could not stop PACs.

[Czechanada]

In terms of political economy, simply enacting a cap on the amount of political capital that elites have in a state isn't exactly going to ensure that there will be an equal distribution of such capital.

Such a measure is good, if only it will lead to steps for more participatory democracy.

[Aurora Novus]

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Given that the franchise is extended to all but felons, under 18's and dead people, I fail to see how the majority lacks influence in politics.

I don't know how much of the thread you've read, but I'd suggest to take a quick skim through my points. The long and short of it is, when you allow massive private campaign donation, you create a situation where politicians are, essentially, recieving legal bribes that encourage them to listen to the rich and powerful, rather than the actual populace.

[Pope Joan]

This is what comes from getting most of your broadcast information and entertainment from Quebec.

Actually I found it refreshing, when staying in a motel in St. Johnsbury.

Has anybody mentioned yet that Vermont has very NRA-friendly firearms laws?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

Taken all in all, it seems as though Vermont wants to let people run their own lives.

What a concept.

[Murkwood]

Money will always be in politics. It has always been, and shall always be.

[Divair2]

Money will always be in politics. It has always been, and shall always be.

No, not really.

[The Liberated Territories]

Money will always be in politics. It has always been, and shall always be.

No, not really.

Yes, yes really.

Do you think democracy should operate on how many hugs are given?

[Divair2]

No, not really.

Yes, yes really.

Do you think democracy should operate on how many hugs are given?

Or, y'know, on democracy. It's not very hard to limit the impact money has on politics. Plenty of countries manage it.

[Libertarian California]

Because it erodes the general populace's influence on politics. Which is the whole point of democracy.

If politicians are competeing with one another for elections, and require donations to be able to fund a campaign, you can bet they're going to listen to their donars. If the donars are us, the people, great. But when you allow massive spending, it ends up being that politicians listen to and make policies exclusively favoring the absurdly wealthy and powerful corporations, instead of listening to the people who've actually elected them.

This^. People or entities who can't vote should have no influence in campaigns.

They shouldn't have influence over our government in general.

[Empire of Narnia]

How do you get "money out of politics"? They only way to actually do that would be to ban political donations. The most we can do is reduce the amount of money.

Why not just ban political donations then? That's not impossible as I don't see any way that would violate the Constitution.

[Big Jim P]

This is what comes from getting most of your broadcast information and entertainment from Quebec.

Actually I found it refreshing, when staying in a motel in St. Johnsbury.

Has anybody mentioned yet that Vermont has very NRA-friendly firearms laws?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

Taken all in all, it seems as though Vermont wants to let people run their own lives.

What a concept.

Which makes Vermont the only NE state I have heard of worth a damn.

[Brickistan]

I must admit that I'm impressed.

When The Young Tyrks announced Wolf PAC I honestly thought that it was a lost cause. No way that they could make politicians actually vote for such an amendment. But it seems that they've been pretty effective at drumming up grassroots support.

Will be interesting to see where this is heading...


Now, what I'm afraid is that this won't be nearly enough. Yes, it will limit the one percent's influence on who can run for office, but it won't prevent them from influencing them by promising lucrative contracts when they're out of office again. It's not enough to get money out of politics, you also need to stop the revolving door in Washington.

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Yes. I'm anti-democratic. I'd rather the US return to a more oligarchic reality. But, that said, I can understand the desire for certain corporate interests to be restricted or otherwise eliminated (the slaveocracy, for example).

Wait...

What?

You want America to become even more oligarchic than it already is? Or rather, I would argue that's it's more like a plutocracy based on crony capitalism, but same difference...

Point is, America is in deep trouble because the one percent has amazed a heck of a lot of power over the least few decades. And you actually want to give them more?

Are you seriously asking why it's bad that overwhelming majority of a population in a supposidely democratic nation has no influence on the politics of that nation?

Given that the franchise is extended to all but felons, under 18's and dead people, I fail to see how the majority lacks influence in politics. I mean, if you don't like your elected leaders vote for someone else then. Heck, the internet makes it possible to organize much more easily now then ever before.

And how are you going to do that?

In the end, only two people will run for president. You really think that they're the people's choice and not the one percent's?

Here's a hint, you're getting nowhere in Washington today without a lot of money behind you...

[Nazi Flower Power]

I like this idea. Vermont is increasingly rising up my ranks of best states due to the rather loose gun laws and other policies that I have found particularly good such as this getting big money out of politics.

Yes, Vermont is awesome. It has the best state government ever.

[Nazi Flower Power]

This is what comes from getting most of your broadcast information and entertainment from Quebec.

Actually I found it refreshing, when staying in a motel in St. Johnsbury.

Has anybody mentioned yet that Vermont has very NRA-friendly firearms laws?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

Taken all in all, it seems as though Vermont wants to let people run their own lives.

What a concept.

Which makes Vermont the only NE state I have heard of worth a damn.

You'd like NH, too. They also have lots of guns and minimal government meddling in people's lives.

[West Afrika]

Which makes Vermont the only NE state I have heard of worth a damn.

You'd like NH, too. They also have lots of guns and minimal government meddling in people's lives.

Time to move...

[America Libertaria]

How do you get "money out of politics"? They only way to actually do that would be to ban political donations. The most we can do is reduce the amount of money.

Thats kind of exactly what the amendment is for... If you go to Wolf PAC's site (the place where this movement started) you would know that they call for there to be a $100 donation limit and all political campaigns be publicly funded. it also says corporations have none of the rights as human being and cannot fund super PACs in any way.

[Big Jim P]

Which makes Vermont the only NE state I have heard of worth a damn.

You'd like NH, too. They also have lots of guns and minimal government meddling in people's lives.

Probably. Too bad about the climate though.

[Nazi Flower Power]

You'd like NH, too. They also have lots of guns and minimal government meddling in people's lives.

Probably. Too bad about the climate though.

Yeah, I love New England, but the winters are longer than I want.

[America Libertaria]

Probably. Too bad about the climate though.

Yeah, I love New England, but the winters are longer than I want.

But winter is so much fun.