Was East Germany worse than Nazi Germany?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I would have thought he meant East Germany during the last remainder of Stalin's years.

Even then most of the deaths under Stalin (or even all of them) occured in the Soviet Union, while East Germany was under it's sphere of influence, it was not part of it.
Also, most of the deaths occured during the 30's and 40's (The Purge + Holodomor + WWII), even though El Stalino stayed an asshole far beyond that.

Yea. Hence why I really don't think East Germany had it bad under the DGR than when Germany was unified under Hitler.

[Lithuanian Empire]

So what, we are going to count deaths now?
Stalin's mass deportations and Great Purge killed over 1,5 million people.
6 million people got affected by his bloody policy.
His idiotic tactics in WW2 led to almost 20 million deaths.
Famines caused by him also add to it.

And he didn't just target single ethnicities - he crushed anyone in his path.

About the Deportation:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Gulag_Prisoner_Stats_1934-1953.PNG

So no 1.5 million did not die in the great purges.

6 million of who? And yes what if they did get affected why are you not screaming bloody murder about the Americans treatment of the native Americans?

Because you know he was responsible for creating war strategies and plans...not really he let his generals do their job and only issued orders when something really important happened.

I am assuming you mean the Ukrainian holodomor which not surprisingly do to your age was caused by bad weather,bourgeoisie farmers and a typhus epidemic that moved in from the Caucasus.

So yeah prove me wrong if you can.

Siberia is not everything.
"During 1921–53, the number of sentences was (political convictions): sentences, 4,060,306; death penalties, 799,473; camps and prisons, 2,634397; excile, 413,512; other, 215,942. In addition, during 1937–52 there were 14,269,753 non-political sentences, among them 34,228 death penalties, 2,066,637 sentences for 0–1 year, 4,362,973 for 2–5 years, 1,611,293 for 6–10 years, and 286,795 for more than 10 years. Other sentences were non-custodial"
heatcroft, Stephen G. (1999). "Victims of Stalinism and the Soviet Secret Police: The Comparability and Reliability of the Archival Data. Not the Last Word". Europe-Asia Studies 51 (2): 315–345.

For the war part, in the first days he killed off millions of Soviet soldiers just because of his sheer stupidity and deniance of war.
And there's also Kiev, where millions died or surrendered, being surrounded by German forces, with Stalin demanding to keep the line.
After all, he was the supreme commander and decided every action of the Red Army.

For Holodomor, it was started by overnationalization of farms. Stalin decided it all.
Also, "bourgeuise farmers" says it all. You are a "communist"

[CTALNH]

About the Deportation:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Gulag_Prisoner_Stats_1934-1953.PNG

So no 1.5 million did not die in the great purges.

6 million of who? And yes what if they did get affected why are you not screaming bloody murder about the Americans treatment of the native Americans?

Because you know he was responsible for creating war strategies and plans...not really he let his generals do their job and only issued orders when something really important happened.

I am assuming you mean the Ukrainian holodomor which not surprisingly do to your age was caused by bad weather,bourgeoisie farmers and a typhus epidemic that moved in from the Caucasus.

So yeah prove me wrong if you can.

Siberia is not everything.
"During 1921–53, the number of sentences was (political convictions): sentences, 4,060,306; death penalties, 799,473; camps and prisons, 2,634397; excile, 413,512; other, 215,942. In addition, during 1937–52 there were 14,269,753 non-political sentences, among them 34,228 death penalties, 2,066,637 sentences for 0–1 year, 4,362,973 for 2–5 years, 1,611,293 for 6–10 years, and 286,795 for more than 10 years. Other sentences were non-custodial"
heatcroft, Stephen G. (1999). "Victims of Stalinism and the Soviet Secret Police: The Comparability and Reliability of the Archival Data. Not the Last Word". Europe-Asia Studies 51 (2): 315–345.

For the war part, in the first days he killed off millions of Soviet soldiers just because of his sheer stupidity and deniance of war.
And there's also Kiev, where millions died or surrendered, being surrounded by German forces, with Stalin demanding to keep the line.
After all, he was the supreme commander and decided every action of the Red Army.

For Holodomor, it was started by overnationalization of farms. Stalin decided it all.
Also, "bourgeuise farmers" says it all. You are a "communist"

UMN would you kindly rebuff this guy with actual facts I need to go take a shower.

[Lithuanian Empire]

Siberia is not everything.
"During 1921–53, the number of sentences was (political convictions): sentences, 4,060,306; death penalties, 799,473; camps and prisons, 2,634397; excile, 413,512; other, 215,942. In addition, during 1937–52 there were 14,269,753 non-political sentences, among them 34,228 death penalties, 2,066,637 sentences for 0–1 year, 4,362,973 for 2–5 years, 1,611,293 for 6–10 years, and 286,795 for more than 10 years. Other sentences were non-custodial"
heatcroft, Stephen G. (1999). "Victims of Stalinism and the Soviet Secret Police: The Comparability and Reliability of the Archival Data. Not the Last Word". Europe-Asia Studies 51 (2): 315–345.

For the war part, in the first days he killed off millions of Soviet soldiers just because of his sheer stupidity and deniance of war.
And there's also Kiev, where millions died or surrendered, being surrounded by German forces, with Stalin demanding to keep the line.
After all, he was the supreme commander and decided every action of the Red Army.

For Holodomor, it was started by overnationalization of farms. Stalin decided it all.
Also, "bourgeuise farmers" says it all. You are a "communist"

UMN would you kindly rebuff this guy with actual facts I need to go take a shower.

You know, I'm the one here who isn't brainwashed by Soviet propaganda.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

UMN would you kindly rebuff this guy with actual facts I need to go take a shower.

You know, I'm the one here who isn't brainwashed by Soviet propaganda.

I'm not an ex-KGB agent either so your argument falls flat.

[United Marxist Nations]

Siberia is not everything.
"During 1921–53, the number of sentences was (political convictions): sentences, 4,060,306; death penalties, 799,473; camps and prisons, 2,634397; excile, 413,512; other, 215,942. In addition, during 1937–52 there were 14,269,753 non-political sentences, among them 34,228 death penalties, 2,066,637 sentences for 0–1 year, 4,362,973 for 2–5 years, 1,611,293 for 6–10 years, and 286,795 for more than 10 years. Other sentences were non-custodial"
heatcroft, Stephen G. (1999). "Victims of Stalinism and the Soviet Secret Police: The Comparability and Reliability of the Archival Data. Not the Last Word". Europe-Asia Studies 51 (2): 315–345.

For the war part, in the first days he killed off millions of Soviet soldiers just because of his sheer stupidity and deniance of war.
And there's also Kiev, where millions died or surrendered, being surrounded by German forces, with Stalin demanding to keep the line.
After all, he was the supreme commander and decided every action of the Red Army.

For Holodomor, it was started by overnationalization of farms. Stalin decided it all.
Also, "bourgeuise farmers" says it all. You are a "communist"

UMN would you kindly rebuff this guy with actual facts I need to go take a shower.

I'm on my phone, damnit. Link him to my essays on it.

[Lithuanian Empire]

You know, I'm the one here who isn't brainwashed by Soviet propaganda.

I'm not an ex-KGB agent either so your argument falls flat.

You don't have to be one.
But seriously, when did so many people in the West become left? What happened?
Does it mean socialism won the Cold War?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm not an ex-KGB agent either so your argument falls flat.

You don't have to be one.
But seriously, when did so many people in the West become left? What happened?
Does it mean socialism won the Cold War?

Left as in...?

[Juggalo world]

Anything under communism is by default worse.

[Bolnoa]

Nazi germany was good... For the germans, that is. Let's not forget all the genocides, plundering of gold and so on.

Unless your German it's a paradise, if you're not well...Let's just say...You're time has come to pass away.

[Lithuanian Empire]

You don't have to be one.
But seriously, when did so many people in the West become left? What happened?
Does it mean socialism won the Cold War?

Left as in...?

Left enough to support Stalin and call yourself a Marxist, at the same time denying any facts against your opinion.
I understand American far left is actually center left, but god...

[Need a Name]

You don't have to be one.
But seriously, when did so many people in the West become left? What happened?
Does it mean socialism won the Cold War?

Left as in...?

On the left of the Left-Right political spectrum.

http://www.shtfplan.com/wp-content/uplo ... tional.jpg

[Nervium]

Left as in...?

Left enough to support Stalin and call yourself a Marxist, at the same time denying any facts against your opinion.
I understand American far left is actually center left, but god...

You can be a marxist and hate Stalin you know. The two aren't necessarily related.

[Bolnoa]

Left as in...?

On the left of the Left-Right political spectrum.

http://www.shtfplan.com/wp-content/uplo ... tional.jpg

Oh...

[Nervium]

Anything under communism is by default worse.

And under Nazism everything is better!
Except being Jewish, or Roma, or black. Or disabled, or a communist, or an intellectual.

[Lithuanian Empire]

Left enough to support Stalin and call yourself a Marxist, at the same time denying any facts against your opinion.
I understand American far left is actually center left, but god...

You can be a marxist and hate Stalin you know. The two aren't related.

True.
Sort of.

[Lithuanian Empire]

Anything under communism is by default worse.

Except being Jewish, or Roma, or black.

Under communism, everyone is oppressed equally.

[Need a Name]

Except being Jewish, or Roma, or black.

Under communism, everyone is oppressed equally.

At least they are being oppressed by themselves.

Unless you are talking about the stereotype of Communism, that being more like Stalin-ism.

[Constantinopolis]

The standard of living in Nazi Germany was much higher than that of the USSR during that time.

The standard of living in Nazi Germany was also much higher than in [insert poor country here], for the same reason why the standard of living in Weimar Germany or the German Empire was higher than in [insert poor country here] - namely, because Germany started industrializing much sooner than the majority of the world.

Let's use India for example. The standard of living in Nazi Germany was, without a doubt, much higher than in India after independence. So I guess Hitler was better than Gandhi?

[Lithuanian Empire]

The standard of living in Nazi Germany was much higher than that of the USSR during that time.

The standard of living in Nazi Germany was also much higher than in [insert poor country here], for the same reason why the standard of living in Weimar Germany or the German Empire was higher than in [insert poor country here] - namely, because Germany started industrializing much sooner than the majority of the world.

Let's use India for example. The standard of living in Nazi Germany was, without a doubt, much higher than in India after independence. So I guess Hitler was better than Gandhi?

This thread, I think, is not about which nation treated it's citizens better or which country did less anti-humanic crime, but in which country it was better to live in.

[Constantinopolis]

This thread, I think, is not about which nation treated it's citizens better or which country did less anti-humanic crime, but in which country it was better to live in.

Well then I think the answer is obvious: it was far better to live in East Germany, even if you were a tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryan male.

Why? Because East Germany did not send you to die in a world war, and did not follow a foreign policy that caused enemy powers to drop bombs on your city on a weekly basis.

People seem to forget that WAR was the defining characteristic of Nazi Germany. The Nazis were in power for only 12 years. They spent the first 6 years re-arming and preparing to fight, and the other 6 years actually fighting WW2. For the average German, Nazism meant a very high chance of getting killed in war.

And that's not even counting all the genocide stuff, of course.

There was a very good reason why East German propaganda emphasized peace as their no.1 achievement. The German people had been decimated by two world wars only 20 years apart. Avoiding another war was at the top of everyone's priority list.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Anything under communism is by default worse.

My step-grandmother--no friend to communists or communism--lived in Berlin during WWII and during the Soviet occupation of Berlin. She said that the Nazis were worse (mind, this is despite the fact that she was regularly assaulted by Soviet soldiers when they invaded the city) because they brought more ruin on the nation.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Disclaimer: No ethnic minorities were exterminated during the period of rule for the German Democratic Republic.
Disclaimer: Keine ethnische Minderheiten wurden in der Zeit der Regel für die Deutsche Demokratische Republik ausgerottet.

That being said, the East Germans were absolute batshit when it came to oppressing people, probably worse than the Gestapo when it came to the Stasi, but we never saw the East Germans go completely deep end.

[Russian Socialist Soviet States]

:palm: You really think that a puppet regime was worse than one that murdered millions of it's own people in a ridiculous drive to exterminate the unworthy?

Nazi Germany has a high standard of living.

[Geilinor]

East Germany didn't commit genocide and wasn't expansionist, so Nazi Germany was much worse.