Should Austria- Hungary be reformed

[Seattile]

Yes, let's reunite Europe under Hapsburg hegemony. It'll be far better than the European Union anyways.

I would prefer a Hohenzollern Hegemony.

[Old Tyrannia]

This is ridiculous. As I hope you know, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was at best a second-rate power at the start of the First World War,

It was behind France, Germany, Great Britain, Russia and possibly the United States. It was still undeniably a great power and one of the world's top ten most powerful nations.

its economy was in decline,

No, it wasn't. In fact, the Austro-Hungarian economy had gone through a period of rapid and impressive modernisation and economic growth just prior to the war. Hungary in particular had seen huge economic advancement since the 1867 compromise.

its army was outdated

Source, please.

and it was a feudal monarchy in the era of the nation-state.

Bullshit. Austria-Hungary was a dual constitutional monarchy. Yes, the aristocracy remained influential, and yes, the constitution gave the King-Emperor far more power than, say, the monarch of the United Kingdom, but it was in no way "feudal."

Had it survived the First World War, it would have almost certainly broken up spectacularly, like Yugoslavia writ-large, and things would be been very bad.

That's not certain. Pro-Habsburg sentiment was still strong in Croatia, Bohemia and Slovakia in the 20th century. Bosnia was the main trouble zone, with most of the Empire's integral territories looking for increased autonomy, not independence.

The only thing that could have saved it was complete federalization, but even that is not a guarantee and the Habsburgs would never have agreed to it.

I'm sorry? Archduke Franz Ferdinand von Habsburg-Lothringen, heir to the k.u.k. monarchy, who made a federal Greater Austria his pet project, would never have agreed to federalisation? The Hungarian government was actually the principle obstacle to federalism, not the House of Habsburg.

Any revolution which overthrows the Habsburgs will break up the empire. It's a catch-22.

Except, of course, that there was little appetite within the Empire itself for the overthrow of the Habsburgs.

In truth, although in the modern period of nationalism and, paradoxically, European federalism I doubt a resurrection of Dual Monarchy would be possible, I do think it would be desirable. Constitutional monarchy is a more stable and balanced system than republicanism in my view, and apart from that, reviving the monarchy as a monarchial union of autonomous states with a shared currency, military, foreign policy and head of state would create a new power in central and eastern Europe that could champion traditional, Catholic values. I think the nations of the new k.u.k. monarchy would be a good influence on each other, too; the more liberal Austria and Bohemia (currently known as the Czech republic) would balance out the more conservative Hungary and Croatia. All the members would enjoy increased prestige and security. Their neighbours may be less than thrilled, of course.

[Risottia]

Their neighbours may be less than thrilled, of course.

As an Italian, if the guys with the two-headed thingie agreed to take back South Tyrol, Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia, I'd be extremely thrilled.

And no, I don't live there.

[Old Tyrannia]

Their neighbours may be less than thrilled, of course.

As an Italian, if the guys with the two-headed thingie agreed to take back South Tyrol, Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia, I'd be extremely thrilled.

And no, I don't live there.

Don't be silly, Veneto has to become independent as the Second Most Serene Republic, and retake Crete from Greece and Dalmatia from Croatia. All hail the Lion of St. Mark!

[Wilkshire]

I think it would be best for the people of Austria and Hungary to decide.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

No it would fall apart again, most likely by a Serbian shooting a nember of the royal family.

[The White Horde]

Needs more Upper Silesia.

[Old Tyrannia]

No it would fall apart again, most likely by a Serbian shooting a nember of the royal family.

Those damn Serbians shooting Habsburgs. You'd have thought they'd learned their lesson after the first time.

[Austro-Hungarian States]

Gott erhalte Osterreich-Ungarn!

[Divair2]

If Austria and Hungary both agree to it, why not?

But why ask the question in the first place. What purpose do they have to unifying once again?

They don't. Which is why it's not even a theoretical proposal.

[Infected Mushroom]

Austria- Hungary was a one time the second largest empire in Europe at
239,977 sq miles,and the third most populous (after Russia and the German Empire). The Empire built up the fourth largest machine building industry of the world, after the United States, Germany and Britain.So, should the empire be brought back from the dead?

Well denizens of Nationstates, you decide.

I think that would be awesome.

I like Austria-Hungary.

[The Flood]

I don't care if the two states are reunified, but the Habsburg should be restored to the throne as constitutional Emperors of Austria.

[Indira]

I think history would say that it's a bad idea.

[The Flood]

In fact, reunite Germany and Austria, and bring back the Habsburgs as Holy Roman Emperors.

[Divair2]

I don't care if the two states are reunified, but the Habsburg should be restored to the throne as constitutional Emperors of Austria.

No.

[The Archregimancy]

Since there are no serious parties calling for a Habsburg imperial restoration, and hardly anyone's going to vote for the idea, then it's a moot point.

But I've heard worse ideas in NSG. So long as we're talking about some form democratic plurinational federative constitutional monarchy with built-in guarantees for the rights of all of the federation's ethnic groups (including Jews and Romany), and cultural and linguistic equality for those groups, then I can't see why it necessarily would have been much too much worse than what replaced the Empire. The collapse of the Habsburg state only became inevitable in the final months of the First World War; prior to that, a federation along the above lines would have been accepted by most parties - including the Empire's Slavs.

Again, there's absolutely no sign from any of the involved parties that we should be expecting the restoration of Charles II to his rightful plurinational throne. But on the scale of NSG historical-political crazy ideas, it's not the most insane.

[The Flood]

I don't care if the two states are reunified, but the Habsburg should be restored to the throne as constitutional Emperors of Austria.

No.

Why not? Republics suck and are hardly even real countries. Constitutional monarchy is better.

[Divair2]

No.

Why not? Republics suck and are hardly even real countries. Constitutional monarchy is better.

Wrong.

[Dalcaria]

Frankly, it's up to the people of Austria and Hungary. As for the people of the old territories, I wouldn't even bother asking, the days of the old Austria-Hungary are long gone. As for monarchy, I don't see a problem with it, so long as it has the best wishes of the people in mind and so long as a constitution exists that permanently ensures the rights and freedoms of the citizens and restricts what kind of laws the monarch can make. For instance, I don't think it would be good if the monarch (or anyone) were able to start oppressing minority groups, like homosexuals for instance.

[Risottia]

Republics suck and are hardly even real countries.

Considering how republics control the almost entirety of the world's nuclear arsenal and the vast majority of the world's GDP, lolz.

[Nervium]

Yes, let's reunite Europe under Hapsburg hegemony. It'll be far better than the European Union anyways.

I would prefer a Hohenzollern Hegemony.

Eww, Hohenzollerns.

[The greater holy roman empire]

This is ridiculous. As I hope you know, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was at best a second-rate power at the start of the First World War,

It was behind France, Germany, Great Britain, Russia and possibly the United States. It was still undeniably a great power and one of the world's top ten most powerful nations.

its economy was in decline,

No, it wasn't. In fact, the Austro-Hungarian economy had gone through a period of rapid and impressive modernisation and economic growth just prior to the war. Hungary in particular had seen huge economic advancement since the 1867 compromise.

its army was outdated

Source, please.

and it was a feudal monarchy in the era of the nation-state.

Bullshit. Austria-Hungary was a dual constitutional monarchy. Yes, the aristocracy remained influential, and yes, the constitution gave the King-Emperor far more power than, say, the monarch of the United Kingdom, but it was in no way "feudal."

Had it survived the First World War, it would have almost certainly broken up spectacularly, like Yugoslavia writ-large, and things would be been very bad.

That's not certain. Pro-Habsburg sentiment was still strong in Croatia, Bohemia and Slovakia in the 20th century. Bosnia was the main trouble zone, with most of the Empire's integral territories looking for increased autonomy, not independence.

The only thing that could have saved it was complete federalization, but even that is not a guarantee and the Habsburgs would never have agreed to it.

I'm sorry? Archduke Franz Ferdinand von Habsburg-Lothringen, heir to the k.u.k. monarchy, who made a federal Greater Austria his pet project, would never have agreed to federalisation? The Hungarian government was actually the principle obstacle to federalism, not the House of Habsburg.

Any revolution which overthrows the Habsburgs will break up the empire. It's a catch-22.

Except, of course, that there was little appetite within the Empire itself for the overthrow of the Habsburgs.

In truth, although in the modern period of nationalism and, paradoxically, European federalism I doubt a resurrection of Dual Monarchy would be possible, I do think it would be desirable. Constitutional monarchy is a more stable and balanced system than republicanism in my view, and apart from that, reviving the monarchy as a monarchial union of autonomous states with a shared currency, military, foreign policy and head of state would create a new power in central and eastern Europe that could champion traditional, Catholic values. I think the nations of the new k.u.k. monarchy would be a good influence on each other, too; the more liberal Austria and Bohemia (currently known as the Czech republic) would balance out the more conservative Hungary and Croatia. All the members would enjoy increased prestige and security. Their neighbours may be less than thrilled, of course.

It is obviously more stable as you say, but who cares what their neighbors think

[The Blaatschapen]

Since there are no serious parties calling for a Habsburg imperial restoration, and hardly anyone's going to vote for the idea, then it's a moot point.

But I've heard worse ideas in NSG. So long as we're talking about some form democratic plurinational federative constitutional monarchy with built-in guarantees for the rights of all of the federation's ethnic groups (including Jews and Romany), and cultural and linguistic equality for those groups, then I can't see why it necessarily would have been much too much worse than what replaced the Empire. The collapse of the Habsburg state only became inevitable in the final months of the First World War; prior to that, a federation along the above lines would have been accepted by most parties - including the Empire's Slavs.

Again, there's absolutely no sign from any of the involved parties that we should be expecting the restoration of Charles II to his rightful plurinational throne. But on the scale of NSG historical-political crazy ideas, it's not the most insane.

The Northern Ireland to the Netherlands idea is more insane.

[Nervium]

Since there are no serious parties calling for a Habsburg imperial restoration, and hardly anyone's going to vote for the idea, then it's a moot point.

But I've heard worse ideas in NSG. So long as we're talking about some form democratic plurinational federative constitutional monarchy with built-in guarantees for the rights of all of the federation's ethnic groups (including Jews and Romany), and cultural and linguistic equality for those groups, then I can't see why it necessarily would have been much too much worse than what replaced the Empire. The collapse of the Habsburg state only became inevitable in the final months of the First World War; prior to that, a federation along the above lines would have been accepted by most parties - including the Empire's Slavs.

Again, there's absolutely no sign from any of the involved parties that we should be expecting the restoration of Charles II to his rightful plurinational throne. But on the scale of NSG historical-political crazy ideas, it's not the most insane.

The Northern Ireland to the Netherlands idea is more insane.

No, the Restoration of the Byzantine Empire is more insane.

[Old Tyrannia]

Republics suck and are hardly even real countries.

Considering how republics control the almost entirety of the world's nuclear arsenal and the vast majority of the world's GDP, lolz.

In defence of monarchy, monarchies have controlled the vast majority of the world's population and GDP for virtually the entirety of human history up to the 20th century.

Since there are no serious parties calling for a Habsburg imperial restoration, and hardly anyone's going to vote for the idea, then it's a moot point.

Austria has the Black-Yellow Alliance, calling for a sort of Habsburg Commonwealth of Nations with Karl von Habsburg-Lothringen as shared monarch. They're only a small party, but they exist and they're "serious." So that's not quite true.