Is Capitalism still the answer?

[North Yakistan]

Carl Marx was a parasitic member of the bourgeoise if there ever was one. In his life he applied for exactly one job (a railroad clerk) and lived firstly off of his own family, then his wifes, then Ingles. He had a house servant whom he never paid a penny, impregnated, and then refused to support in any way.

The man is held up as a quasi-demigod among communists and he was never once a member of the proletariat

There is no proof that Marx was the father of Freddy Demuth, it is only speculation.

Just because Marx was not a member of the proletariat does not discredit his views, many other members of the bourgeois were/are communists.

It does not discredit them, but would you read a diet book writen by a fat man?

And while its besides the point of communism there's no other likely father for the child.

Edit: on is death bed Engles remarked how obvious it was that Freddy was Marxs son

[Gorgashia]

"A society cannot control a nation, there needs to be a leader who can take the consequences and lead the nation"

Autocracy is not the best solution. Democracy is. In a democratic business, each employee has a higher stake in the success of the business.

The problem with these utopic ideas is this:
Humans are selfish, greedy pieces of shit. They want as much as they can for themselves.
In a private economy, that's okay, but in a democratic economy, every employee would seek as much gain to themselves, neglecting others. Corruption, stealing and shady work would be almost instantaneous.
Greed is what keeps communism from winning. We are greedy no matter which system we are in.

Thankfully, Conscentia isn't a Communist. Nor is he advocating a Democratic Economy, he is advocating democratic workplaces. Enterprises will still compete, money and greed will still exist and it's not even that utopic.

Like, have you looked up Cooperatives? They exist. They function.

Your statement is more a rant against Communism than it is against cooperatives.

[Grykten]

No, the same thing happens under any system at that point in development. The explotation always exists because a few people are being corrupt. Capitalism is being stalled here because no one is encouraging the growth of a wealthier middle class. This is bad capitalism which is not the most common and definitely not the default.

It is what capitalism inevitably turns into.

Yeah, inevitably an elite few decide that selling tvs and ipods and making a profit sucks. So they make everyone poor and exploit them while getting rid of all their wealth because their is no one to sell anything to. Makes sense.

A note: I will add it is disgusting how 3rd world countries are being exploited but over time the whole world will move on past this point. We are already well on our way to a well developed earth.

[Ardoki]

There is no proof that Marx was the father of Freddy Demuth, it is only speculation.

Just because Marx was not a member of the proletariat does not discredit his views, many other members of the bourgeois were/are communists.

It does not discredit them, but would you read a diet book writen by a fat man?

And while its besides the point of communism there's no other likely father for the child.

If the fat person's book was good I would definitely read it (even though it would be pointless since I am not fat, but for my point I will pretend I'm fat).

[Ardoki]

It is what capitalism inevitably turns into.

Yeah, inevitably an elite few decide that selling tvs and ipods and making a profit sucks. So they make everyone poor and exploit them while getting rid of all their wealth because their is no one to sell anything to. Makes sense.

A note: I will add it is disgusting how 3rd world countries are being exploited but over time the whole world will move on past this point. We are already well on our way to a well developed earth.

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

[Lithuanian Empire]

What, you think in communist societies it doesn't exist?
It does.
You still need to give off all your work results and gain a wage, just that you give them to the state, not a private person.

Communism is stateless as well as moneyless. You obviously have no idea what communism is, next time you talk about actually know what it is.

What does currency do wrong? It's just currency.
Also, now we go to the utopic communism. How would you create such a society without force?

[North Yakistan]

No, the same thing happens under any system at that point in development. The explotation always exists because a few people are being corrupt. Capitalism is being stalled here because no one is encouraging the growth of a wealthier middle class. This is bad capitalism which is not the most common and definitely not the default.

It is what capitalism inevitably turns into.

And communism dosnt?

Direct democracy is inefficient at running things like factories and totaly unfeisable on a regional or national scale which makes the election of officials necisary. These officials are then secretive to corruption.

[Lithuanian Empire]

Yeah, inevitably an elite few decide that selling tvs and ipods and making a profit sucks. So they make everyone poor and exploit them while getting rid of all their wealth because their is no one to sell anything to. Makes sense.

A note: I will add it is disgusting how 3rd world countries are being exploited but over time the whole world will move on past this point. We are already well on our way to a well developed earth.

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

Like communism did.

[North Yakistan]

Yeah, inevitably an elite few decide that selling tvs and ipods and making a profit sucks. So they make everyone poor and exploit them while getting rid of all their wealth because their is no one to sell anything to. Makes sense.

A note: I will add it is disgusting how 3rd world countries are being exploited but over time the whole world will move on past this point. We are already well on our way to a well developed earth.

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

I would argue that is the exact opposite of truth. Communism on a large scale in untenable for extended periods of time.

[Grykten]

Yeah, inevitably an elite few decide that selling tvs and ipods and making a profit sucks. So they make everyone poor and exploit them while getting rid of all their wealth because their is no one to sell anything to. Makes sense.

A note: I will add it is disgusting how 3rd world countries are being exploited but over time the whole world will move on past this point. We are already well on our way to a well developed earth.

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

We'll be on pluto before we run out of resources. Do you know how many resources are in the asteroid and kuiper belts. We will be set for a looong time.

[Ardoki]

Communism is stateless as well as moneyless. You obviously have no idea what communism is, next time you talk about actually know what it is.

What does currency do wrong? It's just currency.
Also, now we go to the utopic communism. How would you create such a society without force?

I never said such a society will be created without force.

How would you create such a banana split without a Barn Owl?

[Ostroeuropa]

A keynsian solution is the best idea we've got so far, except maybe syndicalist corporation models...

[North Yakistan]

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

Like communism did.

I will say this, Soviet and Maoist style communism is only one form of communism. But I doubt if results would be much better with the others

[Ardoki]

It is what capitalism inevitably turns into.

And communism dosnt?

Direct democracy is inefficient at running things like factories and totaly unfeisable on a regional or national scale which makes the election of officials necisary. These officials are then secretive to corruption.

We would use Soviet democracy with instantly recallable delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
https://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/ch05.htm

[Ardoki]

Capitalism will eventually collapse in on it's self because it is unsustainable.

We'll be on pluto before we run out of resources. Do you know how many resources are in the asteroid and kuiper belts. We will be set for a looong time.

I was not only talking about natural resources.

[Grykten]

A keynsian solution is the best idea we've got so far, except maybe syndicalist corporation models...

I think keynesisan economics is the best we've got so far as well. We need less austerity and thatcherism/reaganism.

[Ardoki]

Like communism did.

I will say this, Soviet and Maoist style communism is only one form of communism. But I doubt if results would be much better with the others

They are state-capitalism.

And a Soviet is a workers council not an ideology, use Stalinist or Leninist in it's place.

[Grykten]

And communism dosnt?

Direct democracy is inefficient at running things like factories and totaly unfeisable on a regional or national scale which makes the election of officials necisary. These officials are then secretive to corruption.

We would use Soviet democracy with instantly recallable delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
https://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/ch05.htm

Soviet-democracy is an oxymoron.

[Ardoki]

We would use Soviet democracy with instantly recallable delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
https://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/ch05.htm

Soviet-democracy is an oxymoron.

Please explain how?
You do know that Soviets (workers councils) were around 12 years before the Russian Revolution.

[North Yakistan]

And communism dosnt?

Direct democracy is inefficient at running things like factories and totaly unfeisable on a regional or national scale which makes the election of officials necisary. These officials are then secretive to corruption.

We would use Soviet democracy with instantly recallable delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
https://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/ch05.htm

And what if noone knows? Or if they are paid off?

Comrade Jim runs the bakery and every night fudges the books so he can take home an extra batch of pastries to his kids. How is this delt with?

[Lithuanian Empire]

What does currency do wrong? It's just currency.
Also, now we go to the utopic communism. How would you create such a society without force?

I never said such a society will be created without force.

How would you create such a banana split without a Barn Owl?

You see, if you force a system on a group, then there have to be people who force it and people who work and pay for the forcement of the system. It eventually turns into a dictatorship by people who force the utopic society. And that's not what you want, right?
If we do it not by force, like a nation turning into an anarcho communist nation, itcould be better, but not good, because not everyone's a communist, and not everyone would want to lose all their stuff.

Utopias don't work. Communism is an utopia.

[Ardoki]

We would use Soviet democracy with instantly recallable delegates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
https://www.marxists.org/history/archive/brailsford/1927/soviets-work/ch05.htm

And what if noone knows? Or if they are paid off?

Comrade Jim runs the bakery and every night fudges the books so he can take home an extra batch of pastries to his kids. How is this delt with?

An anti-corruption committee. I have never said that corruption will be non-existent, corruption happens under capitalism as well. However corruption would not be a big problem, nor a little one.

[Grykten]

Soviet-democracy is an oxymoron.

Please explain how?
You do know that Soviets (workers councils) were around 12 years before the Russian Revolution.

For one it was structured like a pyramid from the begining. Your local councils had councils to report to and so on until you reach the top the vanguards of the revolution ( your dicatators). There was no democracy. The councils were used for control. You had everyone in the council and then controlled them and anyone else in the area.

[North Yakistan]

I will say this, Soviet and Maoist style communism is only one form of communism. But I doubt if results would be much better with the others

They are state-capitalism.

And a Soviet is a workers council not an ideology, use Stalinist or Leninist in it's place.

I understand the concept of A soviet I was referencing THE Soviet Union as to include both Lennin and Stalin.

And they were certainly not capitolists. If you can define them out of communism then I can define them out of capitolism. They were statist whores

[Ardoki]

I never said such a society will be created without force.

How would you create such a banana split without a Barn Owl?

You see, if you force a system on a group, then there have to be people who force it and people who work and pay for the forcement of the system. It eventually turns into a dictatorship by people who force the utopic society. And that's not what you want, right?
If we do it not by force, like a nation turning into an anarcho communist nation, itcould be better, but not good, because not everyone's a communist, and not everyone would want to lose all their stuff.

Utopias don't work. Communism is an utopia.

The vast majority of people would like ti since it would maximise their personal and economic freedoms and lead to a much higher living standard and life.