Black People Are Racist Too!

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I completely agree. Black Pride should be banned as well, or they should allow White Pride. And no, I am not talking about Neo-Nazis, I am talking about people that are proud of their heritage.

Who cares either way? As long as everybody else is left alone, people should be free to do what the fuck ever.

[Wind in the Willows]

I completely agree. Black Pride should be banned as well, or they should allow White Pride. And no, I am not talking about Neo-Nazis, I am talking about people that are proud of their heritage.

Who cares either way? As long as everybody else is left alone, people should be free to do what the fuck ever.

I care very much about this issue. I hate the fact that Neo-Nazis have completely ruined the concept of White Pride, and whenever White Pride is mentioned everyone thinks of Nazis.

I am proud of my British heritage, but I am a Centrist.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Who cares either way? As long as everybody else is left alone, people should be free to do what the fuck ever.

I care very much about this issue. I hate the fact that Neo-Nazis have completely ruined the concept of White Pride, and whenever White Pride is mentioned everyone thinks of Nazis.

I am proud of my British heritage, but I am a Centrist.

Well, that would be understandable then, since as soon as someone says "White Pride" now, we expect a lynching or a march a few days later.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

fffffffppptttthhhhhhhhhhhh

[Wikipedia and Universe]

You sure like creating topics about race.

Topix is that way <-------------------

IMO black pride has different connotations than white pride, to put it simply.

Depends, some versions of black pride are similar to that of LGBT pride parades. That is pride in the difficulties they have overcome. Other forms, like those of the black panthers are very similar to "white power."

^These, essentially. It depends on the connotations. You never see anyone attempting to use "white pride" in a non-hateful way unless they are doing it to troll.

Your definition of racism is crap because that's not how most people actually use the word. No amount of long-winded pontificating will change the way the word is actually used.

He's using the sociological and psychological definition of racism; and in that sense he is correct. It isn't a "long-winded pontification" as you like to call it or somehow try to detract from it since you are using it from a "common man's" perspective and he's not.

To be fair, I have learned not to trust common people to define complex terms; we have proved ourselves as laymen to be incapable of grasping concepts such as a theory - which holds a very different meaning in science and academia than it does to the layman, yet you don't hear me saying "your concept of theory is crap because that's not how people use it, so your evolution 'theory' doesn't hold any grounds in my books".

I understand that the layman's usage isn't always the best (as you showed, "just a theory" is a fairly solid example). The problem is that, even when applying multiple tests and heuristics for the definition of racism and avoiding the so-called "argumentum ad dictionarium" (a neologism from a RationalWiki essay which essentially means holding up a dictionary definition as the be-all-and-end-all), it becomes clear that the "prejudice plus power" doctrine has little basis other than the fact some people decided to re-define racism one day and then push that definition by brute force. It fails multiple tests for being a good working definition: That's not how any reputable dictionary primarily defines it (the aforementioned ad dictionarium, but it's only one test), that's not how it's commonly defined (what you just addressed, but I'm looking at these tests cumulatively rather than on their own), that's not how it's been historically defined (It originated during World War II to describe the Nazis' ideology, augmenting then-contemporary terms such as "racialism" and "race hatred." It had nothing to do with colonization, and the term hadn't even been coined when colonists began using bigoted racial attitudes as a rationale to oppress their subjects.), and there's no common trend toward defining this way outside the circles of the people who came up with that definition.

The first point made in favor of it is often an argument from authority ("That's the sociological definition." or "This is how sociologists define it."). It's true that some sociologists (generally hardcore conflict theorists) define it this way, but that doesn't make it a consensus position within sociology anymore than neoclassical economics is a consensus position within economics. These people typically suggest a host of alternate terms such as "racial/race prejudice/hatred" or "racialism." When I took this into account, it didn't take long for me to realize how pointless and useless the "racism requires power" definition really is. With no historical basis for "racism" meriting a special category of "prejudice plus power" or similar, I don't see how it's different from the other prescribed paraphrases, and I'm having trouble seeing what use the redefinition does have.

A hypothetical justification (which may indeed exist, I don't know for certain) I brainstormed for switching to this redefinition might be to prevent bigoted conservatives or reactionaries from "appropriating" and wearing out the term in order to make frivolous accusations of "reverse racism" or downplay the fact that instances of prejudice are generally more injurious to those who are subject to injustice on a regular basis (though why we can't acknowledge this while simultaneously taking an equally strong stance against prejudice directed at members of privileged groups is beyond me.) The first problem I would see with this is that it wouldn't stop the bigots from using the term dishonestly. (They wouldn't care how a committed advocate defines it, and said advocate's prescriptions would likely only affect allies.) Secondly, even if said bigoted folks did decide to heed the advocates' redefinition and stick to the prescribed paraphrases, they'd just wear out the other terms, and the advocates would have succeeded only in making would-be appropriators use a few more syllables. Again, the "prevent appropriation" theory is just an educated guess based on what I know about social justice enthusiasts, and I've never seen it used.

At this point, the only difference I can see between the term "racism" and the prescribed paraphrases is that "racism" is a more well-known and charged term. (Of course, I don't think anyone would state openly "I want a monopoly on this particular term because it's the strongest/carries the most baggage.")

In all, I think the "prejudice plus power" redefinition is pointless, fallacious, and detrimental to constructive dialogue in combating racism.

There is a reason why phrases like "institutional racism" exist. That way you can explain what you mean without making asinine statements like, "Black people can't be racist."

Exactly. I see adding qualifiers such as "institutional" and "structural" as a much better option. It gets people to understand the concept without being inflammatory.

Never mind that black people can hold positions of power, even in a society where the majority of power is held by white people. So even by your own whacked definition of racism, there are racist black people.

To be perfectly fair, BPRM means power in general. People such as Barack Obama are certainly breaking down barriers, but non-white people are less advantaged on the whole. That still doesn't mean the "prejudice plus power" redefinition is a good idea. I also think individuals' opinions still play a major role in the structure. All the bigoted employers throwing resumes by people named "Laronda" or other ethnic names in the shredder without reading them are pretty invisible and difficult for any de jure methods such as anti-discrimination policies to counter. On the other hand, there are elements which are able to survive regardless of people's opinions, such as laws subtly intended to keep marginalized folks at a disadvantage while retaining plausible deniability. For example, many good, non-racist people have continued to uphold asinine drug policies initiated by Richard Nixon on the presumption they had some noble intention. As it turns out, however, Nixon has apparently admitted in a memoir that the policies he initiated were secretly intended to inflict as much damage as possible on minorities in the long term. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent and need to crash ASAP. I've been lacking adequate rest this week as it is.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I completely agree. Black Pride should be banned as well, or they should allow White Pride. And no, I am not talking about Neo-Nazis, I am talking about people that are proud of their heritage.

White pride is allowed. Just because people might complain doesn't mean it's not allowed. People complain about black pride. Just look at you and the OP of this thread complaining about black pride...

[Nazi Flower Power]

Never mind that black people can hold positions of power, even in a society where the majority of power is held by white people. So even by your own whacked definition of racism, there are racist black people.

To be perfectly fair, BPRM means power in general. People such as Barack Obama are certainly breaking down barriers, but non-white people are less advantaged on the whole.

That doesn't mean a black person in a position of power can't abuse their power to enact discriminatory policies within their sphere of influence. Just because black people are more likely to get screwed over by racist HR managers does not mean the situation at a specific company could not be the reverse. Even if you claim it is only racism when you have the power to do something about it, there are black people who have the power to do something about it. (I know you weren't claiming that in the first place; I'm just saying.)

[Agritum]

To be perfectly fair, BPRM means power in general. People such as Barack Obama are certainly breaking down barriers, but non-white people are less advantaged on the whole.

That doesn't mean a black person in a position of power can't abuse their power to enact discriminatory policies within their sphere of influence. Just because black people are more likely to get screwed over by racist HR managers does not mean the situation at a specific company could not be the reverse. Even if you claim it is only racism when you have the power to do something about it, there are black people who have the power to do something about it. (I know you weren't claiming that in the first place; I'm just saying.)

IIRC, Eminem had some troubles getting into the rap scene because he was, well, too white or something. It goes both ways.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

That doesn't mean a black person in a position of power can't abuse their power to enact discriminatory policies within their sphere of influence. Just because black people are more likely to get screwed over by racist HR managers does not mean the situation at a specific company could not be the reverse. Even if you claim it is only racism when you have the power to do something about it, there are black people who have the power to do something about it. (I know you weren't claiming that in the first place; I'm just saying.)

IIRC, Eminem had some troubles getting into the rap scene because he was, well, too white or something. It goes both ways.

#whitemansproblems jk

[Ixzara]

I completely agree. Black Pride should be banned as well, or they should allow White Pride. And no, I am not talking about Neo-Nazis, I am talking about people that are proud of their heritage.

White pride is allowed. Just because people might complain doesn't mean it's not allowed. People complain about black pride. Just look at you and the OP of this thread complaining about black pride...

I was actually told once that there is no such thing as white pride. Usually because things like Italian Pride or Canadian Pride usually made up the lack or inability for it.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

White pride is allowed. Just because people might complain doesn't mean it's not allowed. People complain about black pride. Just look at you and the OP of this thread complaining about black pride...

I was actually told once that there is no such thing as white pride. Usually because things like Italian Pride or Canadian Pride usually made up the lack or inability for it.

Nothing inherently wrong, just that white pride has been associated with white dominance since for fucking ever.

[Ixzara]

I was actually told once that there is no such thing as white pride. Usually because things like Italian Pride or Canadian Pride usually made up the lack or inability for it.

Nothing inherently wrong, just that white pride has been associated with white dominance since for fucking ever.

Conceptually, there is nothing wrong with it. In practice, however, that's a different story.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Just honestly curious if anyone else has thought about this, and realized how bad it is.
A black man can say "Black Power!" or "Black Pride!" and get support.
I as a white man could say "White Pride!" and be considered a racist.

BlackPeopleMeet.com isn't racist, although if I were to make a WhitePeopleMeet.com, I can almost guarantee that a LOT of African Americans would petition to get the website taken down.

BET. Black Entertainment Channel. If anyone were to try to make a White Entertainment Channel, the FCC wouldn't allow it. It would be considered Racist and Offensive.
Anyone else notice this major problem?

Blacks are MORE racist then White People, you just dont see it on the Media because the Niggers were ''wrongly enslaved'' a few hundred years ago. It'd be the same if the Whites were the ones still shitting in Holes in Africa when the *cough*civilized*cough* Whites found them there and used them for a better purpose.

The Enclave Government: *** Warned for Trolling ***

[Arumdaum]

Just honestly curious if anyone else has thought about this, and realized how bad it is.
A black man can say "Black Power!" or "Black Pride!" and get support.
I as a white man could say "White Pride!" and be considered a racist.

BlackPeopleMeet.com isn't racist, although if I were to make a WhitePeopleMeet.com, I can almost guarantee that a LOT of African Americans would petition to get the website taken down.

BET. Black Entertainment Channel. If anyone were to try to make a White Entertainment Channel, the FCC wouldn't allow it. It would be considered Racist and Offensive.
Anyone else notice this major problem?

Blacks are MORE racist then White People, you just dont see it on the Media because the Niggers were ''wrongly enslaved'' a few hundred years ago. It'd be the same if the Whites were the ones still shitting in Holes in Africa when the *cough*civilized*cough* Whites found them there and used them for a better purpose.

Your test scores indicate that you are a very tough-minded blazing racist; this is the political profile one might associate with a white supremacist. It appears that you are skeptical towards black people being human, and have an indifferent and uncompassionate attitude towards humanity, especially nonwhites in general.

Your attitudes towards economics appear laissez-faire capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as an Neo-Conservative.

To round out the picture you appear to be, political preference aside, a cold-hearted racist with a flawed view of self-superiority.

[Hochste Kaiserreich]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there. It comes from a combination of the extreme amount of ignorance that unfortunately plagues the ethnic group and the leeway that is given to the African American community by the Media and such. People like Michael Dyson and MLK III are the prime examples of the latter.

[The BaRen]

Ok.
Global Solution: Dye every white person black and every black person white.

[Cenetra]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there. It comes from a combination of the extreme amount of ignorance that unfortunately plagues the ethnic group and the leeway that is given to the African American community by the Media and such. People like Michael Dyson and MLK III are the prime examples of the latter.

I'm sure you have a plethora of data from reputable sources to back this assertion up, and that you will be happy to provide them.

Let's hear it.

...*cracks up* Yeah, you don't have any evidence at all, do you? I predict at best you will have an anecdote or two, or maybe an article from Stormfront.

Maybe if you have multiple studies from peer-reviewed journals either taking polls on racist attitudes or prevalence of hate crimes among various ethnic groups, with a large sample size and representation among various political, geographic, economic, and religious backgrounds, I'll take you seriously. Even then, studies involving race or gender are notorious for being biased and poorly controlled.

I eagerly await your sources.

[Charomia]

everyone and anyone can be racist, just that some people don't seem to acknowledge any other than whites and stereotype them as racist in most instances.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there. It comes from a combination of the extreme amount of ignorance that unfortunately plagues the ethnic group and the leeway that is given to the African American community by the Media and such. People like Michael Dyson and MLK III are the prime examples of the latter.

Michael Dyson is an academic given to quotes that work in context, but that others take out of context in order to paint him as a racist so that they may ignore the substance of his arguments.

MLK III lives with a horrible mental illness that has affected more than one loved one of mine.

Now, give me a source for black people being more racist than any other group out there.

[Sun Wukong]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there. It comes from a combination of the extreme amount of ignorance that unfortunately plagues the ethnic group and the leeway that is given to the African American community by the Media and such. People like Michael Dyson and MLK III are the prime examples of the latter.

Most racist, by far, out there?

You know, I'm actually willing to grant that African Americans may be incredibly racist, but the most racist, by far, of any ethnic group out there? No, I'm sorry. Personal anecdotes about Romanians aside, there are ethnic groups in the world whose literal response to any outsider they encounter is to shoot arrows at them, and kill them.

But yeah, I'm sure liberal use of the word "cracker" totally trumps that.

[Kelinfort]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there. It comes from a combination of the extreme amount of ignorance that unfortunately plagues the ethnic group and the leeway that is given to the African American community by the Media and such. People like Michael Dyson and MLK III are the prime examples of the latter.

Oh, yeah, they have controlled the top positions on the socioeconomic ladder, colonised my homeland of Ireland, sold my people as slaves, and called Europe the "Heart of whiteness."

It should be said that anyone can be racist, however.

[Divair2]

African Americans are, by far, the most racist ethnic group out there.

Source.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Several years ago, I heard of a study that showed African-Americans were more likely than white Americans to believe in innate racial differences. However, I am not sure if I can find it again or if it has been discredited by more recent research. I have to agree with Sun Wukong's point about ethnic groups whose response to outsiders is to shoot them on sight. African-American culture does have a really unhealthy fixation on race, but it's not the only culture that is like that. It's open to discussion why African-American culture is like that in the first place and what, if anything, should be done about it.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

MLK III lives with a horrible mental illness that has affected more than one loved one of mine.

Really? What does he have?

I actually never knew that.

[Geilinor]

Several years ago, I heard of a study that showed African-Americans were more likely than white Americans to believe in innate racial differences. However, I am not sure if I can find it again or if it has been discredited by more recent research. I have to agree with Sun Wukong's point about ethnic groups whose response to outsiders is to shoot them on sight. African-American culture does have a really unhealthy fixation on race, but it's not the only culture that is like that. It's open to discussion why African-American culture is like that in the first place and what, if anything, should be done about it.

African-American culture is like that because it was a point of unity in the face of discrimination.