Black People Are Racist Too!

[Aurora Novus]

You have to try and look past the things you don't like about someone before you can even begin to try and understand them. If you'e so entrenched in your bigotry against a particular religious, ethnic, or racial group, you'll never be able to understand them. You have to let go of that prejudice and look past those things before you can try to understand them.

So, no, I'm right. Understanding follows from a lack of value, understanding does not create a lack of value. You don't convince a southern white racist to not lynch a black man by saying "Gee, this guy is black, and blacks are great! You should take pride in your racial difference with him!" No, you try and get him to look past his race, and see him as a man, not so different from him. The value of race is an inhibitor to understanding, it does not bring it about.

Kudos for strong-arming your victory there.

Is this supposed to mean something to me?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Kudos for strong-arming your victory there.

Is this supposed to mean something to me?

Yes, that perhaps you're not getting what I'm trying to get at.

See, I am not discussing your point that understanding follows a lack of value or not. I am saying education and understanding can, at times, be beneficial more than just trying to get "past your prejudices". Problem being that racism and the definition of race having value is only important if you are ascribing value to the notion that the idea of racism is an end in and of itself.

However, racism stems from xenophobic reactions; in other words fear of the unknown. We don't know said person so we will ascribe to them whatever stereotypes I see fit because I do not know and that will make me feel good about myself not wanting to approach said unknown person. That's the root of racism, and to dismantle the concept one has to attack the root, which is lack of knowledge of the "other", not a valuation of said "other".

[Dyakovo]

Random question: If a black person does everything right (abides by the law, etc) are they still statiscally disadvantaged?

if so, then isn't it basically a very unfortunate thing to be a black person?

Yes and yes.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

All of those are names in other languages. They're just not American.

Community organizing efforts by white people tend to be (from personal observation) well-meaning but hamfisted.

Fortunately, the Bloods and the Crips, while in existence, have nowhere near the influence that they did back in the 80s and 90s.

I understand.

And I'm not suggesting community efforts by white people. I'm suggesting a community effort by black people. That way there's less of a chance of it coming off as patronizing.

They have less influence, due largely to coordinated efforts by police and the FBI. They're still very much alive, unfortunately.

This is why I suggest a major revamping of the educational and welfare systems. Support from a decent system would create less and less of a chance of young black males joining these gangs.

They have programs like that in my neighborhood. They've been in place for several years. This has been hugely effective in lowering the crime rate.

It isn't just the police and the FBI, though that's helped. It's also been communities standing up against the gangs, and refusing to allow them to gain a foothold. It's likely that we'll always have criminal gangs of some sort or another. Their influence can be minimized, though all of the police presence in the world won't help if the community isn't on your side.

I think that a different approach from law enforcement would be good. The LAPD has eased up significantly over the past decade, and the relationship between them and the black community has improved immensely. People in this neighborhood are more likely to report crimes as a result, to cooperate with police when asked to do so, and to not see them as the enemy.

I'm not sure what you mean by welfare reform. Studies have shown that consistent and staggered welfare payments actually decrease crime in comparison to cities that cut welfare payments, which tends to lead to an increase in crime. Sorry that second link is from overseas, but I couldn't find an American study that didn't have the Cato institute's anarcho-capitalist fingers all over it.

[Dyakovo]

I agree, that's an issue. However, any and all attempts by white people to address this have historically come across as nothing short of patronizing, and tend to miss the point. The best that we can do is to is to change ourselves, to ensure that we're approaching individuals as individuals, and to hope that others do their part as well.



I wonder what would happen if they tried the same experiment with names that are unusual in this country, but not associated with black people? Would a Bjorn, a Francois, a Fritz be as likely to have his resume accepted?

Patronizing isn't the best road to go down...

...it's the only road.
*nods*

[Betoni]

So, using this newfangled definition of racism (racial bigotry + power = racism). Can any individual be racist, whatever their skin color. What if that individual is a senator? Or is it always the faceless collective that absolves us powerless individuals from racism to mere bigotry based on race. It reminds me of the bit George Carlin did on euphemisms.

[Draica]

*Sigh* All I'm going to do now is tune this stuff out, pretend it doesn't exist and HOPE that I meet non-racist people in the future. If I do, I'll deal with them. Hopefully my educational work pays off..

I'm a racist who wouldn't mind not being negatively racist towards you, so long as you're not race mixing and not trying to force me to become "diverse" or multicultural. I'm okay with Black neighbors but don't want to be one of the only White persons on the block, so to speak.

I want to marry a white woman, do you have a problem with that?

[Dyakovo]

I'm a racist who wouldn't mind not being negatively racist towards you, so long as you're not race mixing and not trying to force me to become "diverse" or multicultural. I'm okay with Black neighbors but don't want to be one of the only White persons on the block, so to speak.

I want to marry a white woman, do you have a problem with that?

As long as you don't try to marry my white woman, I'm good with it.

[Ardoki]

The vast majority of black supremacists if not all of them have been victims of racism and discrimination themselves. This has lowered their esteem to such a low level that they hate themselves, black supremacism is a way for them to feel good about themselves. It allows them to feel as if there is nothing wrong with them, which is obviously better than them committing suicide from depression.

I am not supporting or condoning black supremacism, however people become black supremacists after years of abuse, racism and discrimination. It is a way for themselves to feel good about themselves again, a way to take away the hurt caused by racism towards them. It is not good, because no racism is good, however I feel sorry for the black supremacists because they are not some racist person who hates people for no reason at all, they only became a black supremacist because they were driven to it by racism and discrimination.

[Othelos]

Blacks are a minority, so racial pride doesn't have negative connotations.

[MERIZoC]

Blacks are a minority, so racial pride doesn't have negative connotations.

Right conclusion, wrong premise. The racial pride doesn't have negative connotations because it hasn't been associated with oppression, like white pride.

[Ardoki]

Blacks are a minority, so racial pride doesn't have negative connotations.

Right conclusion, wrong premise. The racial pride doesn't have negative connotations because it hasn't been associated with oppression, like white pride.

Correct comrade. It is a defence mechanism used by victims of racism and discrimination.

[Infected Mushroom]

Just honestly curious if anyone else has thought about this, and realized how bad it is.
A black man can say "Black Power!" or "Black Pride!" and get support.
I as a white man could say "White Pride!" and be considered a racist.

BlackPeopleMeet.com isn't racist, although if I were to make a WhitePeopleMeet.com, I can almost guarantee that a LOT of African Americans would petition to get the website taken down.

BET. Black Entertainment Channel. If anyone were to try to make a White Entertainment Channel, the FCC wouldn't allow it. It would be considered Racist and Offensive.
Anyone else notice this major problem?

you have a point about the white entertainment channel thing.

Hmmm... hadn't thought about that before.

[Othelos]

Blacks are a minority, so racial pride doesn't have negative connotations.

Right conclusion, wrong premise. The racial pride doesn't have negative connotations because it hasn't been associated with oppression, like white pride.

Well that's sort of implied. Minorities have had a tough time in American history.

[Mini Miehm]

Just honestly curious if anyone else has thought about this, and realized how bad it is.
A black man can say "Black Power!" or "Black Pride!" and get support.
I as a white man could say "White Pride!" and be considered a racist.

BlackPeopleMeet.com isn't racist, although if I were to make a WhitePeopleMeet.com, I can almost guarantee that a LOT of African Americans would petition to get the website taken down.

BET. Black Entertainment Channel. If anyone were to try to make a White Entertainment Channel, the FCC wouldn't allow it. It would be considered Racist and Offensive.
Anyone else notice this major problem?

you have a point about the white entertainment channel thing.

Hmmm... hadn't thought about that before.

It's called CMT. Also farmersonly.com. They're both targeted primarily towards a white audience. Not that there's not a niche for everything these days. You may as well bitch about the fact that the gays, mormons, christians, and hispanics all have dating sites and tv channels just for them if you're gonna bitch about BET.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

...Yes, black people can be racist.

Well done. You discovered racism can come from anyone.

[Saiwania]

I want to marry a white woman, do you have a problem with that?

I'd be lying if I said I approve of that, but it isn't like I'm going to try to stop you. I won't go that far, but who knows; maybe it will end in divorce later on. It isn't my business to try to intentionally ruin a marriage though, if it is otherwise successful.

[Sun Wukong]

I want to marry a white woman, do you have a problem with that?

I'd be lying if I said I approve of that, but it isn't like I'm going to try to stop you. I won't go that far, but who knows; maybe it will end in divorce later on. It isn't my business to try to intentionally ruin a marriage though, if it is otherwise successful.

Saiwania: "See, I'm not a bad person. I don't want to make it illegal for you to get married, I'll just silently cheer as your happiness crumbles."

[Saiwania]

Saiwania: "See, I'm not a bad person. I don't want to make it illegal for you to get married, I'll just silently cheer as your happiness crumbles."

It is just a fact that around 50% of all marriages interracial or not, fail for whatever reason. Those odds are good for divorce attorneys.

[Nirya]

Like those NAACP idiots ?
They despise white people.
Well, white males, at least.

[Nirya]

I'm a racist who wouldn't mind not being negatively racist towards you, so long as you're not race mixing and not trying to force me to become "diverse" or multicultural. I'm okay with Black neighbors but don't want to be one of the only White persons on the block, so to speak.

I want to marry a white woman, do you have a problem with that?

I am fine with it, so long as it isn't a racial statement, you make it look like it is a racial statement.

[Death Metal]

Like those NAACP idiots ?
They despise white people.
Well, white males, at least.

[Ardoki]

Like those NAACP idiots ?
They despise white people.
Well, white males, at least.

They don't hate or despise white people. They are just standing up for the freedom and safety of African Americans, who are often treated as second class citizens in America and are far less privileged than white people.

[Dyakovo]

Like those NAACP idiots ?
They despise white people.
Well, white males, at least.

The NAACP doesn't despise white people.

[Sun Wukong]

Saiwania: "See, I'm not a bad person. I don't want to make it illegal for you to get married, I'll just silently cheer as your happiness crumbles."

It is just a fact that around 50% of all marriages interracial or not, fail for whatever reason. Those odds are good for divorce attorneys.

So you're arguing that what you said wasn't cruel, just irrelevant?

I can't envy what it must be like to live in your head.