Scholarships for African Americans

[Nirya]

This is like, your 8th race related thread. What the hell do you have against black people?

Well he is a white supremacist (obviously).

Is that all you do, is call people whom you disagree with "white supremacists" ?

[Shie]

Well he is a white supremacist (obviously).

Is that all you do, is call people whom you disagree with "white supremacists" ?

What were you arguing for?

[Nirya]

Is that all you do, is call people whom you disagree with "white supremacists" ?

What were you arguing for?

Arguing that he consistently calls people this, myself included.

[Socialist Tera]

Well he is a white supremacist (obviously).

Is that all you do, is call people whom you disagree with "white supremacists" ?

Or a simply a person who like to whine about his lose of privilege.

[Nirya]

I'm an oppressed white cisgender heterosexual Christian male! Help me! Waah! Waah!

What do you have against straight, white, Christian, Males ?

[Santa Lucania]

I'm an oppressed white cisgender heterosexual Christian male! Help me! Waah! Waah!

What do you have against straight, white, Christian, Males ?

Probably nothing considering that's sarcastic.

[Ardoki]

Well he is a white supremacist (obviously).

Is that all you do, is call people whom you disagree with "white supremacists" ?

You called for the extermination of black people, so I naturally thought you were a white supremacist. However I never explicitly called you one, I merely said that you seemed like on from your views and comments.
Sorry if I made a mistake.

[Wind in the Willows]

I don't think organizations that fund scholarships specifically for blacks should exist, as it is extremely racist. I wonder what reaction I would get if I set one up specifically for whites?

[Regnum Dominae]

I don't think organizations that fund scholarships specifically for blacks should exist, as it is extremely racist. I wonder what reaction I would get if I set one up specifically for whites?

Don't pretend that it's at all equivalent, it's not.

[Wind in the Willows]

I don't think organizations that fund scholarships specifically for blacks should exist, as it is extremely racist. I wonder what reaction I would get if I set one up specifically for whites?

Don't pretend that it's at all equivalent, it's not.

What the hell are you talking about? Every race should be treated equally, I am not pretending anything.

[Bhurrain]

The feds don't really give the support needed to move poor blacks out of poverty on the one hand, and they give their more talented blacks scholarships and more places in government on the other.

[Wind in the Willows]

The feds don't really give the support needed to move poor blacks out of poverty on the one hand, and they give their more talented blacks scholarships and more places in government on the other.

Source?

[Bhurrain]

Source?

On there being an unusual large amount of blacks in government for their percentage of the population?

[Wind in the Willows]

Source?

On there being an unusual large amount of blacks in government for their percentage of the population?

Nevermind.

[Bhurrain]

Nevermind.

I wouldn't mind except that if the government wasn't usurping the black intellectuals they would be radicalized.

[Wind in the Willows]

I'm an oppressed white cisgender heterosexual Christian male! Help me! Waah! Waah!

What do you have against straight, white, Christian, Males ?

Left-wingers and Anarchists tend to have a lot of things against straight, white Christian males.

[New Chalcedon]

What do you have against straight, white, Christian, Males ?

Left-wingers and Anarchists tend to have a lot of things against straight, white Christian males.

Only when you try to impose straight white Christianity on the rest of us, and to treat us like second- or third-class citizens when we cannot or will not conform to your idea of "family values" and the like.

[Juggalo world]

Well of course the blacks get scholarships for being black, it's to pay them back for the hundreds of years of oppression and slavery that we make sure they never have to work hard for anything again.

[The Grim Reaper]

we make sure they never have to work hard for anything again.

That's...not how scholarships work.

[Juggalo world]

we make sure they never have to work hard for anything again.

That's...not how scholarships work.

I Was more or less referencing welfare with that last part.

[Mavorpen]

So... what are you? Italian? French? German? Because you DO realize there are scholarships for people of all of European ancestry, right?

[The Grim Reaper]

That's...not how scholarships work.

I Was more or less referencing welfare with that last part.

EDIT: This really doesn't make much sense near the end. I apologize for the parts that sort of look like an entirely different post, or pair of posts, but I spent like ten minutes writing it so have fun.

Welfare and private scholarships are not at all the same thing. They both are extremely effective measures at solving the same problem, and both should be made more available. If you want to make this a platform for arguing "people shouldn't have any welfare because they don't deserve it", then that's off-topic.

Public scholarships are, of course, a 'type' of welfare, but differ from the common Strawman of welfare (I'm not saying you used this, bear with me) as "stop giving the undeserving poor people free money rah rah rah", because unlike the majority of welfare, public scholarships by definition require a significant amount of work to actually pay out. You don't just get a scholarship to a university and suddenly have enough to live off of. Scholarships let you pay your way through a tertiary institution, in which you work towards academic credentials to allow you to work.

I don't see how anyone in good faith can really argue against the existence of private scholarships as an idea - that being said, I understand your issue is, presumably, with private scholarships based on ethnicity. Are we agreed on that?

I believe that you, or at least other posters in this thread, have made the argument that white-only scholarships would not be acceptable by NS' standards, and that this lack of acceptance is a bad thing. I do not necessarily dispute the first point - I would say that yes, white-only scholarships in America would generally be considered unacceptable by a generally socially liberal/economically conservative (i.e. past the Democrats' side of the spectrum on both counts rather than Republican, if my terminology isn't really in line with the American usage) NationStates community. I would argue that perhaps it's a point that holds less true in the United States, which has generally been rather intolerant of equal rights for minorities of all kinds in comparison to other Western nations. I'm of the opinion, and I may be wrong, that the Republican Party, as a mainstream political party, oppose affirmative action, and hold a majority vote in a number of states. That being said, I don't follow American politics, and that point is one I do not know enough on to push.

The second point is more important - that white-only scholarships should be accepted by the NS community, as a subsect of the general population. That point argues that the difference between white-only scholarships and non-white-only scholarships (be they Hispanic, Black, or any combination of minorities) is in the people eligible and their identified race, and not other factors, or that these other factors are negligible.

I would repeat here the argument that this is not the case. The argument that is made by many economic liberals is that over time, capable members of these minorities will rise to positions of power in order to challenge the status quo, if they are deserving. The argument can then be extrapolated that if these minorities are incapable of achieving those positions, they are undeserving. i.e. Over time, if they deserve it, the members of the African-American community that wish to enter university will also improve in their ability to compete with the members of more privileged communities.

This basic premise may be correct, it may not be.

Firstly, I will characterize university study and scholarships(assuming this applies solely to University scholarships - I don't know how High School scholarships work in the United States, but I think it would be a fair assessment that these points apply just as much).

1) University attendance allows a student to achieve a set of credentials that gives them access to a greater number of skilled jobs, which have a higher average pay, and more incentive for high performance. For example, performance-based pay, or career work with the incentive for promotion, or jobs that are more likely to involve intellectually or physically stimulating work that is generally more enjoyable.

2) University attendance is generally based on a level of achievement, and universities are tiered in ranking, meaning that a good university is more respected and a graduate from a good university is worth more, and hence they have higher required levels of achievement.

3) These levels of achievement are based on high school performance.

4) University scholarships allow students achieving a certain high level of achievement to pay for attendance into a university. Conditional scholarships are sometimes lower in achievement (?) than the general achievement level of the University's fee-paying cohort at large.

5) The difference between receiving a university degree and not is significantly more valuable than that between equivalent degrees (in field of study and intensity of study) from a highly ranked and low ranked (but reputable: i.e. not a degree mill) university.

We now look at the general performance of the American populations. I think it would be general knowledge that Caucasians are wealthier on average, no? I think it would also be a safe assumption that wealthier schools offer better teaching and hence their students perform better in high school.

Therefore, Caucasians are advantaged in performing well in high school. In a similar vein, African-Americans are similarly disadvantaged in performing well in high school.

Therefore, there is an element of 'regulation' in the education market. The existing factors of wealth and advantage that exist in the Caucasian and African-American communities make one inefficient in producing University applicants. Similar to a corporation operating in a country with a minimum wage, as opposed to one without. One is hampered from the get-go.

However, cost is not the only consideration in the purchase of goods and services. The other consideration is the quality of these goods and services.

A private scholarship makes the assumption that offering an African-American a place in a University would benefit the communities that the benefactor wishes to benefit - the profit margin of their metaphorical share-holders - more so than a Caucasian. Arguably, this is because the cost of an African-American student may not accurately reflect their potential quality as a University graduate.

In other words, minority scholarships are a profitable endeavor for America.

Your argument that Caucasian scholarships are equivalent simply does not hold true.

Caucasian students already have a comparative advantage to African-Americans regarding their quality as University students. They begin as more capable students, regardless of their ability as an individual, because of external factors. Even assuming that African-Americans may not achieve as highly as Caucasians in University, we /still/ have to deal with the fact that high-achieving African-Americans are more likely to improve to a much higher standard than Caucasian low-achievers (both compared to their year cohort), and that they are more likely to add value and wealth to parts of the country where such wealth would be a significantly more important contribution to the community, through family ties (the basis for more than one developing country's economy, see: Somalia among others) or geographic loyalty even if they choose to move where the money is.

[Greater-London]

Privately funded scholarships can be given to anyone the donor(s) want too. If I wanted to set up a scholarship for white, heterosexual men and it was using my money then I'm completely in my rights to do that.

When it comes to state funding for scholarships then its a different kettle of fish; they should be given due to purely economic circumstances.

[Greater Istanistan]

What were you arguing for?

Arguing that he consistently calls people this, myself included.

To quote:

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may well be a duck. In other words, if you behave in a manner like that of a white supremacist, you are probably a white supremacist.

[Partybus]

Anyone else notice that practically every college offers scholarships for being black? I'm white, where the hell is my scholarship? I deserve just as much as any other person. Opinions? I find it pretty racist.

Anyone else notice that there are scholarships available to left handed folks? I am right handed, where the hell is my scholarship? I deserve just as much as any other person. Opinions? I find it pretty leftist...