Why I think the term "Far Right" should be redefined

[Faith Hope Charity]

Simple left-right is obsolete, and has been since it was made. It oversimplifies the actual positions, and quickly becomes inaccurate. It only kind of works when you get towards the center, and the further you get from there, you begin to see inaccuracies, which leave "far left and far right" highly nebulous.. and you end up with certain ideologies grouped on the same side that have no similarities whatsoever (i.e. fascism and anarcho-capitalism).

[Liberaxia]

Oh yeah? Where would Islamic dundamentalism fit on America's left-right political spectrum?

I have a problems with the whole deal of X is more Y than Z, where X and Z are fitted on a simplistic line. Just doesn't feel accurate. I have my own non-spectral classifications. If you judge by signature, for example, you wouldn't know where to place me.

If by "dundamentalism" you mean fundamentalism, then it would be on the more authoritarian side. Simple answers to simple questions.

Fixed.

[Liberaxia]

Simple left-right is obsolete, and has been since it was made. It oversimplifies the actual positions, and quickly becomes inaccurate. It only kind of works when you get towards the center, and the further you get from there, you begin to see inaccuracies, which leave "far left and far right" highly nebulous.. and you end up with certain ideologies grouped on the same side that have no similarities whatsoever (i.e. fascism and anarcho-capitalism).

Or Christian dominionism and Jihadism.

[Bojikami]

The right-left scale doesn't really work. Nor has it ever.

[Duvniask]

The right-left scale doesn't really work. Nor has it ever.

Why does it not work as it is intended?

[MERIZoC]

The right-left scale doesn't really work. Nor has it ever.

It does work for some things, but for the bigger picture, no, you are right. However, there are other scales that can measure not just economic position, but also social position. I for one, am in favor of a third axis or dimension on the political scale. One that incorporates environmental issues into the whole thing, as those are becoming more and more important in politics.

[Nervium]

Simple left-right is obsolete, and has been since it was made. It oversimplifies the actual positions, and quickly becomes inaccurate. It only kind of works when you get towards the center, and the further you get from there, you begin to see inaccuracies, which leave "far left and far right" highly nebulous.. and you end up with certain ideologies grouped on the same side that have no similarities whatsoever (i.e. fascism and anarcho-capitalism).

They have similarities though.
They both support a capitalist model (yeah sorry to break it to you, but it's true) and a hierarchy.

[Tekania]

The right-left scale doesn't really work. Nor has it ever.

Why does it not work as it is intended?

The problem is there is little in the way of "intent" With it. The concept initially came out of post-revolutionary France where pro-monarchist types sat on the right side of the chamber and freedmen enlightenment types say on the left. Its biggest fault at present, which makes it the least usable, is that points change on it because there is no clearly defined vector used because while the intent is to show a line from constraint to liberty..... different levels of liberty in different dimension constrain element of others; as such people vector the line differently depending on their own private interpretations of which liberties they like more and which ones they like less; there is no real consistency of application, nor can there really be without itself imposing an ideological view on what should be an independent scale. These problems become less of an issue with using multi-dimentional plots to measure levels along different axises.

[Liberaxia]

Simple left-right is obsolete, and has been since it was made. It oversimplifies the actual positions, and quickly becomes inaccurate. It only kind of works when you get towards the center, and the further you get from there, you begin to see inaccuracies, which leave "far left and far right" highly nebulous.. and you end up with certain ideologies grouped on the same side that have no similarities whatsoever (i.e. fascism and anarcho-capitalism).

They have similarities though.
They both support a capitalist model (yeah sorry to break it to you, but it's true) and a hierarchy.

By this reasoning we could call the Soviet Union's social system right-wing given that its state resembled a corporation.

[Threlizdun]

They have similarities though.
They both support a capitalist model (yeah sorry to break it to you, but it's true) and a hierarchy.

By this reasoning we could call the Soviet Union's social system right-wing given that its state resembled a corporation.

The Soviet Union was right wing

[SD_Film Artists]

By this reasoning we could call the Soviet Union's social system right-wing given that its state resembled a corporation.

The Soviet Union was right wing

How so? Just because it doesn't sit well with most modern Communists?

[Nervium]

They have similarities though.
They both support a capitalist model (yeah sorry to break it to you, but it's true) and a hierarchy.

By this reasoning we could call the Soviet Union's social system right-wing given that its state resembled a corporation.

The Soviet Union had a command economy wich indeed resembeled some capitalist elements.
I wouldn't go as far as calling it right wing, but it had a hierarchy, albeit pretended everyone was equal.

[Liberaxia]

By this reasoning we could call the Soviet Union's social system right-wing given that its state resembled a corporation.

The Soviet Union was right wing

A lot of people would disagree with that. Either way, I have my own perspectives on these matters and my own ways of classifying them. The Soviet Union was an extremely centralized, expansionist, centrally coordinated empire ruled by a legion of bureaucrats, generals, and party officials. It was an honest to goodness totalitarian police state whose level of control is surpassed only by the North Koreans.

[Gaelic Celtia]

The right-left scale doesn't really work. Nor has it ever.

Why does it not work as it is intended?

It is just a little too...simple. It works well enough, I suppose.

[Liberaxia]

The Soviet Union was right wing

How so? Just because it doesn't sit well with most modern Communists?

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

[Nervium]

How so? Just because it doesn't sit well with most modern Communists?

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

Obviously not, Stalin and Kruschev might as well came from different planets.

[Duvniask]

Why does it not work as it is intended?

The problem is there is little in the way of "intent" With it. The concept initially came out of post-revolutionary France where pro-monarchist types sat on the right side of the chamber and freedmen enlightenment types say on the left. Its biggest fault at present, which makes it the least usable, is that points change on it because there is no clearly defined vector used because while the intent is to show a line from constraint to liberty..... different levels of liberty in different dimension constrain element of others; as such people vector the line differently depending on their own private interpretations of which liberties they like more and which ones they like less; there is no real consistency of application, nor can there really be without itself imposing an ideological view on what should be an independent scale. These problems become less of an issue with using multi-dimentional plots to measure levels along different axises.

I think it's best we treat it as a matter of support/rejection of social equality and not liberty per se. Would that not be more consistent with the overall beliefs and practices of people that are either left or right-wing?

[Liberaxia]

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."

Obviously not, Stalin and Kruschev might as well came from different planets.

Old boss: the filthy capitalist pig dogs who presided over workers in their factories.
New boss: the filthy party bureaucrats who presided over workers in their factory state.

[Nervium]

Obviously not, Stalin and Kruschev might as well came from different planets.

Old boss: the filthy capitalist pig dogs who presided over workers in their factories.
New boss: the filthy party bureaucrats who presided over workers in their factory state.

Didn't say one of them was better, they were certainly different.

[Tekania]

The problem is there is little in the way of "intent" With it. The concept initially came out of post-revolutionary France where pro-monarchist types sat on the right side of the chamber and freedmen enlightenment types say on the left. Its biggest fault at present, which makes it the least usable, is that points change on it because there is no clearly defined vector used because while the intent is to show a line from constraint to liberty..... different levels of liberty in different dimension constrain element of others; as such people vector the line differently depending on their own private interpretations of which liberties they like more and which ones they like less; there is no real consistency of application, nor can there really be without itself imposing an ideological view on what should be an independent scale. These problems become less of an issue with using multi-dimentional plots to measure levels along different axises.

I think it's best we treat it as a matter of support/rejection of social equality and not liberty per se. Would that not be more consistent with the overall beliefs and practices of ideologies that are described as either left or right-wing?

For that you would need to try to hard-define "social equality", that itself is a product of multiple vectors. And that is of course what the problem with the scale is. You're going to construct "social equality" around a vector most benefitial to your own particular views onconstrait and liberty along lines and come up with a scale, but it won't apply to someone else attempting to do it because their "Social equality" vector will end up being different.

That i the problem with it. Policy concepts and ideologies are multi-axis things, the fewer axises you use to measure the more biased the result will be based upon the ideology of the one measuring.

[Liberaxia]

Old boss: the filthy capitalist pig dogs who presided over workers in their factories.
New boss: the filthy party bureaucrats who presided over workers in their factory state.

Didn't say one of them was better, they were certainly different.

My point is that there's a cruel irony in the fact that communist revolutions only succeed in replicating the exact same circumstances that they aimed to eliminate and then some.

[Nervium]

Didn't say one of them was better, they were certainly different.

My point is that there's a cruel irony in the fact that communist revolutions only succeed in replicating the exact same circumstances that they aimed to eliminate and then some.

Meh, I think the Old Left would do the Left an enormous favour by just dying off, for those and some other reasons.