Do you consider the Confederate flag to be racist

[Viritica]

Treacherous, racist, and a just plain ugly flag.

less ugly than the American flag though. I'm as patriotic as the next guy but our flag is boring as heck.

Meh. Not really. Our flag is nice.

[Pensalum]

less ugly than the American flag though. I'm as patriotic as the next guy but our flag is boring as heck.

Meh. Not really. Our flag is nice.

I don't know I just wish it had some more pizazz. It's kind of difficult to draw 50 stars and 13 stripes, and I'm really fond of simplicity in flags.

[Tekania]

But since that's not the version under discussion--and, indeed, said discussion is actually occurring in another thread--I'm not sure why you brought it up.

There are many variations of the song, even back then in the 1860's..... there was no de jure version, and as such there's no specific version in said discussion.

And I didn't "Bring it up", Islamic republiq of Julundar did.

[The Fascist American Empire]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough. And it just means, "I am Southern and proud."

Besides, the Yanks cheated. They used the Irish fresh off the boats to spearhead several major battles in exchange for land and citizenship. But all is fair in love and war.

[Paros Ka]

(Image)

The confederate flag isn't racist. It's just a symbol of southern pride and has nothing to do with racism. The commonly used confederate flag was not even the actual flag used by the CSA. Many people that display this flag are completely unaware of it's history and a lot of them think it represents either Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazzard. Even if it was racist, its display is protected free speech under the First Amendment.

Any 'Confederate Flag' represents just that, the old Confederate States of America, in the same way that the flag of the United States of America represents the United States of America. The 'Civil War' is a misnomer, and it certainly had little to nothing with slavery or race relations. History is written by the victors, though, and hence why it's known as the 'Civil War' instead of the 'Confederate Revolutionary War' or something else to that effect. Am I saying that it's a bad thing the south lost the so-called 'Civil War'? No, and I'm not saying it's a good thing either. It's just how history panned out.

[Orla]

Considering it is the flag of a would-be nation that would have it's entire economy from slavery, yeah it's racist.

[Avenio]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough.

Mmm. And I'm sure that your best friend is black too, and you have a girlfriend who lives in Canada.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

But since that's not the version under discussion--and, indeed, said discussion is actually occurring in another thread--I'm not sure why you brought it up.

There are many variations of the song, even back then in the 1860's..... there was no de jure version, and as such there's no specific version in said discussion.

There was a specific version that was sung with little variation. However, with the exception of the Union version (Which could be more properly labeled a parody), every version either glorified slavery (Sung from the point of view of a former slave longing for the plantation of his youth), or was sung in support of states attempting to break away from the Union so that they might be able to preserve slavery. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a song with powerful racist connotations.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough. And it just means, "I am Southern and proud."

Besides, the Yanks cheated. They used the Irish fresh off the boats to spearhead several major battles in exchange for land and citizenship. But all is fair in love and war.

No, you don't.

And that's irrelevant.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough. And it just means, "I am Southern and proud."

Besides, the Yanks cheated. They used the Irish fresh off the boats to spearhead several major battles in exchange for land and citizenship. But all is fair in love and war.

Getting people to fight for you is cheating? Do you know how America gained it's independence?

[Tekania]

There are many variations of the song, even back then in the 1860's..... there was no de jure version, and as such there's no specific version in said discussion.

There was a specific version that was sung with little variation. However, with the exception of the Union version (Which could be more properly labeled a parody), every version either glorified slavery (Sung from the point of view of a former slave longing for the plantation of his youth), or was sung in support of states attempting to break away from the Union so that they might be able to preserve slavery. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a song with powerful racist connotations.

You should seek medical consultation about your memory issues.

[Paros Ka]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough. And it just means, "I am Southern and proud."

Besides, the Yanks cheated. They used the Irish fresh off the boats to spearhead several major battles in exchange for land and citizenship. But all is fair in love and war.

No, you don't.

And that's irrelevant.

Down in South, people take pride of where they come from. One of the things that makes the South unique is its' once self-declared independence. People from all ethnic groups in the south take pride in that, not just multi-generational whites. So yes, there are some blacks who do take pride in the south's past.

[Orla]

No, you don't.

And that's irrelevant.

Down in South, people take pride of where they come from. One of the things that makes the South unique is its' once self-declared independence. People from all ethnic groups in the south take pride in that, not just multi-generational whites. So yes, there are some blacks who do take pride in the south's past.

"some blacks", that is irrelevant. If I were to ask most African Americans what they thought of the flag, the response would be overwhelmingly negative.

[Paros Ka]

Down in South, people take pride of where they come from. One of the things that makes the South unique is its' once self-declared independence. People from all ethnic groups in the south take pride in that, not just multi-generational whites. So yes, there are some blacks who do take pride in the south's past.

"some blacks", that is irrelevant. If I were to ask most African Americans what they thought of the flag, the response would be overwhelmingly negative.

If I were to ask most stone-aged humans if the Earth was round, they'd most likely scratch their heads and wonder what the hell I was saying. Even if they did understand me, they'd probably tell me no. Doesn't make it any more or less factual, does it? Fact is, there are some blacks (whether they're relevant to you or not is in and of itself irrelevant) who do take pride in southern history. Period.

[Lemanrussland]

Not inherently, no. It's more a symbol of separatism than racism (though it definitely carries some ugly racist baggage with it).

Northerners were often just as racist as their southern counterparts. The Civil War was not about racism.

[Orla]

"some blacks", that is irrelevant. If I were to ask most African Americans what they thought of the flag, the response would be overwhelmingly negative.

If I were to ask most stone-aged humans if the Earth was round, they'd most likely scratch their heads and wonder what the hell I was saying. Even if they did understand me, they'd probably tell me no. Doesn't make it any more or less factual, does it? Fact is, there are some blacks (whether they're relevant to you or not is in and of itself irrelevant) who do take pride in southern history. Period.

So for a german man to "take pride in German history" he has to fly a Swastika?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

There was a specific version that was sung with little variation. However, with the exception of the Union version (Which could be more properly labeled a parody), every version either glorified slavery (Sung from the point of view of a former slave longing for the plantation of his youth), or was sung in support of states attempting to break away from the Union so that they might be able to preserve slavery. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a song with powerful racist connotations.

You should seek medical consultation about your memory issues.

Considering the fact that I've been perfectly civil during this discussion, I would appreciate equivalent treatment from you. If you don't have an actual reply, simply say so, or quit the field.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

No, you don't.

And that's irrelevant.

Down in South, people take pride of where they come from. One of the things that makes the South unique is its' once self-declared independence. People from all ethnic groups in the south take pride in that, not just multi-generational whites. So yes, there are some blacks who do take pride in the south's past.

They take pride in the region's attempt to break away to continue enslaving, beating, and raping their ancestors? Fascinating, but I don't see how the opinions of people whose hatred of their own skin tone approaches a level nearing psychosis would be at all relevant to this conversation. My point was that "Some black people use it" is meaningless, unproven, and irrelevant.

[The Fascist American Empire]

No, I've met blacks who love that flag, oddly enough.

Mmm. And I'm sure that your best friend is black too, and you have a girlfriend who lives in Canada.

Ew, I would never date a Canadian. And my best friend is Hispanic.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Not inherently, no. It's more a symbol of separatism than racism (though it definitely carries some ugly racist baggage with it).

Northerners were often just as racist as their southern counterparts. The Civil War was not about racism.

Sure it was. It takes racism to believe that one skin tone is superior to another, and it takes a special kind of racism to believe that this gives one a right to own people of the "lesser" tone as property. To actually fight a war and meet one's neighbors, friends, and even relatives on the battlefield in order to maintain one's rights to continue to own people of that skin tone? Well, that's some super-special racism, right there.

Yes, there were racists up north. There were even some pretty strong racists among the abolitionists. But here's the thing: They didn't use their racist beliefs as an excuse to hold their fellow human beings in bondage. Any attempt at equivalence between the sides falls apart there.

[The Fascist American Empire]

Not inherently, no. It's more a symbol of separatism than racism (though it definitely carries some ugly racist baggage with it).

Northerners were often just as racist as their southern counterparts. The Civil War was not about racism.

Sure it was. It takes racism to believe that one skin tone is superior to another, and it takes a special kind of racism to believe that this gives one a right to own people of the "lesser" tone as property. To actually fight a war and meet one's neighbors, friends, and even relatives on the battlefield in order to maintain one's rights to continue to own people of that skin tone? Well, that's some super-special racism, right there.

Yes, there were racists up north. There were even some pretty strong racists among the abolitionists. But here's the thing: They didn't use their racist beliefs as an excuse to hold their fellow human beings in bondage. Any attempt at equivalence between the sides falls apart there.

The only reason most Northerners who were abolitionists despised slavery was because it fueled the Southern economy, giving them power. Very few actually thought that it was the right thing to do.

[Greed and Death]

Sure it was. It takes racism to believe that one skin tone is superior to another, and it takes a special kind of racism to believe that this gives one a right to own people of the "lesser" tone as property. To actually fight a war and meet one's neighbors, friends, and even relatives on the battlefield in order to maintain one's rights to continue to own people of that skin tone? Well, that's some super-special racism, right there.

Yes, there were racists up north. There were even some pretty strong racists among the abolitionists. But here's the thing: They didn't use their racist beliefs as an excuse to hold their fellow human beings in bondage. Any attempt at equivalence between the sides falls apart there.

The only reason most Northerners who were abolitionists despised slavery was because it fueled the Southern economy, giving them power. Very few actually thought that it was the right thing to do.

Most northern likely did not care for slavery. That did not make them all abolitionist, most were along the vein of Lincoln content to let slavery die a slow death caused by its own economic failings.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The physical flag, the cloth, no. But the ideas that were espoused using it as a symbol? Yes.Those were and are racist.

[Tekania]

You should seek medical consultation about your memory issues.

Considering the fact that I've been perfectly civil during this discussion, I would appreciate equivalent treatment from you. If you don't have an actual reply, simply say so, or quit the field.

When I get accused of "Bringing something up" in a direct response to what someone else specifically said in their own post to which mine was a response to, and then get referenced about not considering something racist in a conversation chain where my originating post specifically was an address including a valid reasons for it being classed racist; my civility is in recommending someone to get this issue they have with remembering things looked at by competent professionals.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Sure it was. It takes racism to believe that one skin tone is superior to another, and it takes a special kind of racism to believe that this gives one a right to own people of the "lesser" tone as property. To actually fight a war and meet one's neighbors, friends, and even relatives on the battlefield in order to maintain one's rights to continue to own people of that skin tone? Well, that's some super-special racism, right there.

Yes, there were racists up north. There were even some pretty strong racists among the abolitionists. But here's the thing: They didn't use their racist beliefs as an excuse to hold their fellow human beings in bondage. Any attempt at equivalence between the sides falls apart there.

The only reason most Northerners who were abolitionists despised slavery was because it fueled the Southern economy, giving them power. Very few actually thought that it was the right thing to do.

Source for this statement?