Which God?

[Eternal Life with God]

Sola Fide.

[Kobrania]

Sola Fide.

Wut?

[Eternal Life with God]

Faith.

[The Alma Mater]

Sola Fide.

Wut?

Faith is all that matters. All your deeds are irrelevant.
A rather repugnant view of certain Christians.

[Eternal Life with God]

Faith in the Ancient of Days( Transliteration: Attiq Yomin)

[Kobrania]

Whatever.

[Eternal Life with God]

True Faith= Works+Salvation
False Faith= No works+Damnation

[Kobrania]

True Faith= Works+Salvation
False Faith= No works+Damnation

...


*rings the mental hospital.*

[The Kropotkinite Union]

Eternal Life, I'm kind of disappointed that you gave up on me as soon as you found out that I'm lapsed.

[Eternal Life with God]

Eternal Life, I'm kind of disappointed that you gave up on me as soon as you found out that I'm lapsed.

No, but I coudn't see you posting. And I'm going into the New Testament now, so no hebrew.

[The Alma Mater]

Faith in the Ancient of Days( Transliteration: Attiq Yomin)

No, "sola fide" means "just faith" and is used to indicate that Works do not matter.

[Eternal Life with God]

Works are evidence of Faith, but it's work that saves. Just like it's not fingerprints that kill.

[Tkdkidsx2]

Rhodmhire.

[The Alma Mater]

Works are evidence of Faith, but it's work that saves. Just like it's not fingerprints that kill.

And the phrase "sola fide" means the exact opposite.
EdiT: unless you wanted to say "faith is that saves".

[Kobrania]

Works are evidence of Faith, but it's work that saves. Just like it's not fingerprints that kill.

There haven't been any miracles for 2000 years.

The every day so called 'miracles' are just works of man.

Your god died, gods may be mortal, but gods not impervious to death.

[Eternal Life with God]

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16
PS. I meant not works

[Eternal Life with God]

When James said that we're justified by works, he wanted to say that Faith=Works. Like people are killed by wind=tornado.

[Velka Morava]

When James said that we're justified by works, he wanted to say that Faith=Works. Like people are killed by wind=tornado.

Then why didn't he say that?
I'm a little tired of these discussion about what someone meant to say while he said something different.
It defies the idea of god inspired writing, doesn't it? Unless you would accept the idea of a fallible or mischievous god, that is.

[F1-Insanity]

True Faith= Works+Salvation
False Faith= No works+Damnation

paging dr Sobel, your patient has arrived

[Angleter]

Proving, you are completely religiously ignorant, first off, The Islamic Faith believes in the one true God as revealed by the prophet Abraham, as does Christianity and Judaism, they stem from the same source, the word "Allah" is the Islamic Word for Yahweh, Islam believes in it's scriptures that Christianity and Judaism are both fellow religions of the book. So much so that they are the only other people who can make food "halal" and the only other religions that Islam allows to live freely under Sharia Law.

Wrong, islam 'graciously' allows christianity and judaism inferior status ptovided christians and jews pay the islamic religious tax (those that do not are to be killed, according to islam). Which you conveniently ignored when typing your answer.

Fred Smith is still Fred Smith whether his son's a butcher or a baker.

Pastor Deacon Fred Smith is one of the few preachers I'm willing to listen to.

Maybe if you bothered to learn more about religions you would be more willing to respect them.

Maybe if you bothered to learn more about socalled 'religions' like christianity and islam you would know they are the two most intolerant, supremacist and murderous ideologies of all time. Religion is not something good, it is something extremely bad. Particularly the Abrahamic ones, because those three, and mainly the bigger two see themselves as 'more special' than other 'religions' and seem to demand respect without giving it back.

I'm assuming the Islamic tax thing and the Pastor Deacon Fred Smith thing are your comments.

Please use an example of religious intolerance on a wide scale- not from some lunatic fringe group- from after the Middle Ages, a time when leaders temporal and spiritual alike were corrupt, useless and prejudiced. Religion is not a bad thing in itself- look at the Salvation Army, Cafod, Christian Aid, Islamic Relief, the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, the Sikh tradition of giving all homeless people a meal at the Gurdwara, etc.- but it is used as a tool by unsavoury characters to achieve their own greedy personal aims, or is interpreted badly by radical groups. And I as a Catholic respect every religion (or lack of one) and expect all other people to show my religion respect.

Read the Bible, read the Qur'an, read their analyses and read the Catechism. Then argue your point again.

[F1-Insanity]

I'm assuming the Islamic tax thing and the Pastor Deacon Fred Smith thing are your comments.

They are.

Please use an example of religious intolerance on a wide scale- not from some lunatic fringe group- from after the Middle Ages, a time when leaders temporal and spiritual alike were corrupt, useless and prejudiced. Religion is not a bad thing in itself

The simple fact that the two largest ideologies (christianity and islam) constantly refer to what they consider to be the holy book (bible/quran, check where applies) but what I consider to be a book of fantasy that promotes and glorifies the faithful and denigrates those that do not.

Would you argue this is NOT intolerant? Its from the primary book of christianity, and if you adhere to christianity, you believe that the following is true:

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be
in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Do what we say or you will be killed (again)... doesn't sound tolerant to me.

Religion is not a bad thing in itself- look at the Salvation Army, Cafod, Christian Aid, Islamic Relief, the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, the Sikh tradition of giving all homeless people a meal at the Gurdwara, etc.- but it is used as a tool by unsavoury characters to achieve their own greedy personal aims, or is interpreted badly by radical groups. And I as a Catholic respect every religion (or lack of one) and expect all other people to show my religion respect.

So? There's plenty of charity outside 'religion'. To godwinize the debate, the nazis had soup kitchens too. Does that make them good? I think not. Charity doesn't say anything about the good- or badness of the ideology of the charitable person.

Read the Bible, read the Qur'an, read their analyses and read the Catechism. Then argue your point again.

Where do you think I got my hatred of religion from? From the 'holy' (ie fantasy) books themselves. Nothing but a huge glorification of killing in the name... endless slaughters etc... and a paradise which will be exclusively reserved for the faithful themselves. Sounds like a racket to me.

I am not the least bit swayed by the 'oh but its not meant literally' argument. 'Slay the unbeliever where ye find them' means kill everyone who doesn't want to live like 'us', which is in fact what the socalled 'radicals' are trying to do (though it has to be said, in modern day christianity, less so than used to be).

[Angleter]

'Slay the unbeliever wherever you find them'. Oh-ho-ho, you never read the commentaries or the analyses, did you? That passage comes from a part of the Qur'an set at the time of the Medina society, when Medina and the Muslims were being attacked by Makkah and the pagans. By 'unbeliever' it means 627 AD Makkans, not the tenants of the World Trade Centre.

And it is tolerant. Muhammad himself said (and this may also be in the Qur'an) to respect other religions and to seek knowledge from non-Muslim societies. Jesus taught about the Good Samaritan, explaining that good people are of all races and religions and not just exclusive to one. The passage in red shows to you that God sees as far more important one's actions rather than one's religious beliefs, and describes a beyond-life crime and punishment system (later codified in greater detail by Catholic teaching).

As for charity, I believe it does make an organisation good to do charity- especially when that organisation exists largely as a philanthropic organisation. The Nazis may have done some charity (withholding it from non-Germans, of course) but that has to be countered against the Holocaust, etc., so it doesn't make them good since their good work pales into insignificance compared to their bad work.

Oh, and while the Qur'an is meant to be taken literally (in context, though), the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. It is not the definitive text for Christianity, but merely a collection of stories about and documentation of the life of Jesus (Gospels), a collection of stories and tales about Jewish history (Old Testament), and a collection of documents and records about what happened after Jesus' life, with a prophecy at the end (NT from Acts onwards).

[F1-Insanity]

'Slay the unbeliever wherever you find them'. Oh-ho-ho, you never read the commentaries or the analyses, did you? That passage comes from a part of the Qur'an set at the time of the Medina society, when Medina and the Muslims were being attacked by Makkah and the pagans. By 'unbeliever' it means 627 AD Makkans, not the tenants of the World Trade Centre.

No it doesn't. It means 'all unbelievers, all the time', it is a timeless command. Nice try at applying religio-apologist revisionist interpretation to it, but FAIL.

Here's another one:

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom

And you also fail to mention that Muhammad was mostly the agressor in pretty much every conflict he was involved in.

And it is tolerant. Muhammad himself said (and this may also be in the Qur'an) to respect other religions and to seek knowledge from non-Muslim societies.

Respect as in subjugate christians and jews to inferior status (provided religious tax is paid) and killing everyone else. The definition of peace in islam is 'absence of opposition to islam', not the meaning modern westeners give to the word 'peace'. And Muhammad was well known for speaking with split tongue, saying one thing to one group, and the moment he left them commanding his followers to go out and kill the very people he just spoke to. Considering the vast amount of raping, slave trading, robbing trade caravans and personally leading campaigns of agression he did, I am amazed he even found time to talk to people sometimes rather than killing them on the spot.

He also established the 'thou shalt not criticise me' doctrine:

Poetess Asma bint Marwan was critical of Muhammad. He could not tolerate criticism, particularly from writers. Poetry was the most widespread and respected form of artistic expression among the pagan (pre-Islamic) Arabs. Asma was to be Muhammad’s FIRST victim.

Her words carried and made Muhammad very angry. For Asma bint Marwan, her poem was her death sentence. A follower of Muhammad, hired by Muhammad to kill her, stabbed her so hard while she slept that, with his dagger, he nailed her to the couch.

Asma bint Marwan was not Muhammad’s only literary victim.

Another poet, the centenarian Abu Afak, was similarly killed in his sleep.

Modern day 'radicals' got their ideas of 'thou shalt not criticise Muhammad' straight from the example Muhammad set himself...

[Angleter]

'Slay the unbeliever wherever you find them'. Oh-ho-ho, you never read the commentaries or the analyses, did you? That passage comes from a part of the Qur'an set at the time of the Medina society, when Medina and the Muslims were being attacked by Makkah and the pagans. By 'unbeliever' it means 627 AD Makkans, not the tenants of the World Trade Centre.

No it doesn't. It means 'all unbelievers, all the time', it is a timeless command. Nice try at applying religio-apologist revisionist interpretation to it, but FAIL.

Here's another one:

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom

And you also fail to mention that Muhammad was mostly the agressor in pretty much every conflict he was involved in.

And it is tolerant. Muhammad himself said (and this may also be in the Qur'an) to respect other religions and to seek knowledge from non-Muslim societies.

Respect as in subjugate christians and jews to inferior status (provided religious tax is paid) and killing everyone else. The definition of peace in islam is 'absence of opposition to islam', not the meaning modern westeners give to the word 'peace'. And Muhammad was well known for speaking with split tongue, saying one thing to one group, and the moment he left them commanding his followers to go out and kill the very people he just spoke to. Considering the vast amount of raping, slave trading, robbing trade caravans and personally leading campaigns of agression he did, I am amazed he even found time to talk to people sometimes rather than killing them on the spot.

He also established the 'thou shalt not criticise me' doctrine:

Poetess Asma bint Marwan was critical of Muhammad. He could not tolerate criticism, particularly from writers. Poetry was the most widespread and respected form of artistic expression among the pagan (pre-Islamic) Arabs. Asma was to be Muhammad’s FIRST victim.

Her words carried and made Muhammad very angry. For Asma bint Marwan, her poem was her death sentence. A follower of Muhammad, hired by Muhammad to kill her, stabbed her so hard while she slept that, with his dagger, he nailed her to the couch.

Asma bint Marwan was not Muhammad’s only literary victim.

Another poet, the centenarian Abu Afak, was similarly killed in his sleep.

Modern day 'radicals' got their ideas of 'thou shalt not criticise Muhammad' straight from the example Muhammad set himself...

Revisionist? I used to think that 'revisionists' were the ones outside of mainstream thought, but no, the loony lot must be the correct ones since they fit in with your world view. And: http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp

And actually peace in Arabic translates as 'salam', like the Hebrew 'shalom' and means pretty much the same as 'peace' the English word. Also the Muslim Mughal Empire never committed genocide against Hindus in the Empire, just like the Muslims of Arabia and Egypt didn't against their Jewish diaspora. Only lunatic fringe groups believe that Muhammad or the Qur'an ever said to kill all non-Abrahamics in every case forever, and as a footnote 'jizya', or Islamic tax on Christians or Jews, was never mentioned in the Qur'an and only existed in practice in Islamic nations in the Middle Ages- and what did I tell you about that time again?

Oh and that poet, Asma bint Marwan, apparently called for the murder of Muhammad rather than merely speak out about him. As Wikipedia says:

Asmā bint Marwān (Arabic: عصماء بنت مروان‎, namely "'Asmā the daughter of Marwān") was a female poet who lived in Hijaz in medieval Arabia. According to a narrative from Ibn Ishaq's "Sirah Rasul Allah", Asma wrote poems attacking the Islamic prophet Muhammad supporting murdering him. Upon hearing the poems, Muhammad allegedly ordered her execution. The authenticity of the incident has been widely doubted.

[Soviet Commu-Facism]

Works are evidence of Faith, but it's work that saves. Just like it's not fingerprints that kill.

There haven't been any miracles for 2000 years.

The every day so called 'miracles' are just works of man.

Your god died, gods may be mortal, but gods not impervious to death.

Teehee! Silly doggy! I know living miracles, I go to a church so I hear miracles every Sunday, I read about them in the paper, MY LIFE is a living miracle and I intend to let the world know that! God has saved my life more than once and I am proud to say that without him I would be dead or be one of the left-wing atheists right in this forum. So whether you believe in God or not doesn't matter, the truth is that miracles DO happen and if people followed the ways of the Bible more would happen.

Also, generally speaking, God's can't die, that's just common logic. USE IT!