Wage Slavery? The poor are poor because....

[Kalarin]

Some make it others dont,its all a matter of effort if you work and are smart with what you have youll succeed if you dont work and or waste your money youll be poor until you die and have no one to blame but yourself.

inherited wealth, connections, and (sadly) skin color are all factors that play a part, in descending order of importance. One could struggle by without them, but the odds would not be in his or her favor.

Skin colour does depend on where you live though.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

inherited wealth, connections, and (sadly) skin color are all factors that play a part, in descending order of importance. One could struggle by without them, but the odds would not be in his or her favor.

Skin colour does depend on where you live though.

In America, it plays a part no matter where you live.

[Delmonte]

I'll just take a wild guess and say everything you want me to say:

There are poor people? Give them money.

The public education system is bad? Throw money at it.

Education is expensive?

MONEY!

There are rich people? Tax them.

Welcome to the Democratic Party: Easy solutions since 1828.®

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I'll just take a wild guess and say everything you want me to say:

There are poor people? Give them money.

The public education system is bad? Throw money at it.

Education is expensive?

MONEY!

There are rich people? Tax them.

Welcome to the Democratic Party: Easy solutions since 1828.®

Thank you for inaccurately oversimplifying the party to the point of caricature.

Please note that government spending has grown less under the current president than under his Republican predecessor.

[Britannic Realms]

The poor are poor because... they have little money?

[Delmonte]

I'll just take a wild guess and say everything you want me to say:

There are poor people? Give them money.

The public education system is bad? Throw money at it.

Education is expensive?

MONEY!

There are rich people? Tax them.

Welcome to the Democratic Party: Easy solutions since 1828.®

Thank you for inaccurately oversimplifying the party to the point of caricature.

Please note that government spending has grown less under the current president than under his Republican predecessor.

Yeah, because the Democrats supported every attempt of Bush's to raise spending (i.e. War) and shot down all his attempts to cut it. And Obama could hardly raise spending MUCH more because Bush already started all the wars he could so there were just no opportunities left, much to Obama's chagrin. I never even said I was a Republican, I'm not, or that I supported Bush, I didn't. His fiscal policies resembled Barack Obama's to a great degree, in fact.

But these views are the Democratic party platform. They're the party of simple solutions. It's absolutely true. This thread is evidence of that.

"Wages are low? Impose a minimum wage." Brilliant. You want to know why the poor are poor? Because people keep playing right into the hands of the corporations they profess to hate. Wal-Mart lobbies routinely in favor of a higher minimum wage and nobody even wonders why?! If that doesn't make people rethink minimum wage, nothing I can say ever will. It's fruitless to even try.

[Herskerstad]

Oooh right, I forgot I had one user on my foe list. For a moment I thought the second poster had a clever 1-liner to provoke a shitstorm argument.

My bad.

Bullshit. When you ignore someone you can still see that they posted.

Nope, I only got looking at it now a single, tiny column saying that it stands hidden, and since this is the first foe I have had, did not even know of the functions existence.

[Vikipolis]

Capitalism is the way to go if you consider yourself a reasonable and fair individual. If you're wise enough, you succeed.

The Venus Project is a joke. Sure, sustainabiliy is good, but the whole technocracy thing doesn't workout for me. What's next... a Babel Tower?

[Threlizdun]

Capitalism is the way to go if you consider yourself a reasonable and fair individual. If you're wise enough, you succeed.

So all the poor had the same opportunities as the rich and only failed because they're idiots?

[Liberaxia]

"Wages are slavery" is the Marxist equivalent of "income taxation is slavery".

[Shie]

"Wages are slavery" is the Marxist equivalent of "income taxation is slavery".

Marxists and american libertarians are both incorrect.




Slaves are not provided a wage, nor are they taxed.

[Bleckonia]

Capitalism is the way to go if you consider yourself a reasonable and fair individual. If you're wise enough, you succeed.

So all the poor had the same opportunities as the rich and only failed because they're idiots?

Of course not everyone has the same opportunities, and not every poor person is poor because he is an idiot. But it's impossible to give everyone the exact same opportunities. The best we can do is have a capitalist/mixed system with a welfare system to ensure that anyone who is poor and is trying to lift himself out of poverty can have access to basic needs. A communist system won't work because there is no incentive to work hard if everyone has the same income.

[Duvniask]

"Wages are slavery" is the Marxist equivalent of "income taxation is slavery".

I'm curious, what makes you think they're comparable to the point of equivalence?

[Magna Libero]

"Wages are slavery" is the Marxist equivalent of "income taxation is slavery".

I'm curious, what makes you think they're comparable to the point of equivalence?

Are you trying to imply that there's a difference other than ideological between the two?

[Bezombia]

I'm curious, what makes you think they're comparable to the point of equivalence?

Are you trying to imply that there's a difference other than ideological between the two?

Can you honestly not see the difference between saying "Taking money is theft!" and saying "Not paying workers livable wages might as well be slavery!"?

[Magna Libero]

Are you trying to imply that there's a difference other than ideological between the two?

Can you honestly not see the difference between saying "Taking money is theft!" and saying "Not paying workers livable wages might as well be slavery!"?

No. The sum of wages is the exact amount of money or other resources that is written in the contract, though, unless the employer violated that contract. Some would say that taxation by state is armed theft, but really there only seems be an ideological difference between the two views that like to use the word "slavery".

[Bezombia]

Can you honestly not see the difference between saying "Taking money is theft!" and saying "Not paying workers livable wages might as well be slavery!"?

No. The sum of wages is the exact amount of money or other resources that is written in the contract, though, unless the employer violated that contract. Some would say that taxation by state is armed theft, but really there only seems be an ideological difference between the two views that like to use the word "slavery".

Not remotely.

[Duvniask]

Are you trying to imply that there's a difference other than ideological between the two?

Can you honestly not see the difference between saying "Taking money is theft!"

Not just "theft", but "slavery".

and saying "Not paying workers livable wages might as well be slavery!"?

However, that's just one part of wage slavery. The fact that it abdicates self-determination by reducing people to mere tools is equally abhorrent. We need not abolish slavery because the slaves are paid too little, as slavery itself is contrary to human decency.

[Liberaxia]

"Wages are slavery" is the Marxist equivalent of "income taxation is slavery".

I'm curious, what makes you think they're comparable to the point of equivalence?

They are equally ridiculous.

[Greed and Death]

Can you honestly not see the difference between saying "Taking money is theft!"

Not just "theft", but "slavery".

and saying "Not paying workers livable wages might as well be slavery!"?

However, that's just one part of wage slavery. The fact that it abdicates self-determination by reducing people to mere tools is equally abhorrent. We need not abolish slavery because the slaves are paid too little, because slavery itself is contrary to human decency.

Worth pointing out one of the arguments in the south just prior to the civil war was that the north paid their workers so little they were worse off than slaves.

[Duvniask]

I'm curious, what makes you think they're comparable to the point of equivalence?

They are equally ridiculous.

I'm going to need a little more than that.

[Liberaxia]

They are equally ridiculous.

I'm going to need a little more than that.

I'll ask you a question: what makes you think wages are somehow a new thing that didn't exist prior to the late 1700s/early 1800s? Did small shops somehow not exist in the Middle Ages? Are there not firms that are older than two centuries? Newsflash: the employer-employee relationship is a rather old one. And what actual changes do socialists propose (I assume you are one)? I look to historical examples of socialism and all I see is more of the same. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[Augarundus]

People are poor for many reasons.

I've yet to see a compelling case as to how "capitalism" (in the sense of free trade and respect for property) causes people to be poor.

[Threlizdun]

So all the poor had the same opportunities as the rich and only failed because they're idiots?

Of course not everyone has the same opportunities, and not every poor person is poor because he is an idiot. But it's impossible to give everyone the exact same opportunities. The best we can do is have a capitalist/mixed system with a welfare system to ensure that anyone who is poor and is trying to lift himself out of poverty can have access to basic needs. A communist system won't work because there is no incentive to work hard if everyone has the same income.

Sure there's incentive to work. Doing nothing with your life is a horrendously depressing affair. People would work because they want to and because it would be enjoyable. Voluntarily assisting others makes people feel happy and accomplished. Labor simply for survival simply feels like a chore and lacks the charitable elements of assisting others out of the kindness if your heart.

[Pope Joan]

Because the "job creators" are busy spending their excess pelf in the whorehouses of Ibiza.

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