Wage Slavery? The poor are poor because....

[Universal Socialism]

Do I really need to spell this shit out for you like it's been done a million times already?

Well, yes, considering that I don't really see how being rich and successful is an inherently bad thing.

I think it depends on how they become rich. Many rich-people use cheap dirty tricks to get so high-up in the market (such as storing their money in off-shore bank accounts to avoid paying taxes, and hiring cheap foreign labor that they can under-pay).

[Estormo]

Yes, yes, rich people are evil. Blah blah blah. We get it.

I don't know what Sanguinea thinks, but the point communists make has never been that the bourgeoisie are just "evil for the lulz", and presenting it as such is snide.The bourgeoisie are not really free in their doing of "evil" acts, because it's required of them if they're to survive in the market.

Not really.

[Pilotto]

Some succeed. Others don't. It's not the fault of capitalism.

hahahahahahahhahahahhahahah that's cute. you're cute. in a bad way. you're the bad kind of cute because you're wrong. bad dog.

Care to provide an argument? Or a source?

[Estormo]

hahahahahahahhahahahhahahah that's cute. you're cute. in a bad way. you're the bad kind of cute because you're wrong. bad dog.

Care to provide an argument? Or a source?

Do not ask a Communist to provide an argument, it's something they are entirely incapable of.

[Bythibus]

hahahahahahahhahahahhahahah that's cute. you're cute. in a bad way. you're the bad kind of cute because you're wrong. bad dog.

Care to provide an argument? Or a source?

I don't have to. Capitalism cannot be absolved of all faults. It provides the perfect system to acquire another person's wealth so long as your useable income is enough to out buy them. Companies do it all the time, and hostile takeovers ruin people every year. Granted, the number is smaller than the anti-capitalist crowd would have you or I believe, it is still a problem. It's just that corrupt banking does more damage than that.

[Bezombia]

Care to provide an argument? Or a source?

Do not ask a Communist to provide an argument, it's something they are entirely incapable of.

I could say the same thing about capitalists.

[Threlizdun]

This.
Communism is just pointless hassling.
Poor are poor, becuase we need some motivation for the people to keep the whole society running.

Exactly !
Communism goes against human nature, in general.

Really? It certainly is bizarre that it managed to be the dominant form of societal organization for almost 50,000 years.

[Bythibus]

Care to provide an argument? Or a source?

Do not ask a Communist to provide an argument, it's something they are entirely incapable of.

maybe you should wait for someone to speak before you put your foot in your mouth.

[Bezombia]

Exactly !
Communism goes against human nature, in general.

Really? It certainly is bizarre that it managed to be the dominant form of societal organization for almost 50,000 years.

Clearly history is false and the only thing that matters is my bottom line.
Or something.

[Pilotto]

Well, yes, considering that I don't really see how being rich and successful is an inherently bad thing.

I think it depends on how they become rich. Many rich-people use cheap dirty tricks to get so high-up in the market (such as storing their money in off-shore bank accounts to avoid paying taxes, and hiring cheap foreign labor that they can under-pay).

These are problems that can be fixed or mitigated. If the rich are committing tax evasion, you can pass laws to more aggressively pursue them. If they are outsourcing, you can pass tariffs to reduce that. That doesn't mean that the entire system should be scrapped.

[Bythibus]

This.
Communism is just pointless hassling.
Poor are poor, becuase we need some motivation for the people to keep the whole society running.

Exactly !
Communism goes against human nature, in general.

It's actually in human nature to have a small band of less than 150 people. It's how our minds are actually set up. On average, we can have about 150 meaningful connections. Any more people in a group or community, and it's gradually less and less cohesive as the group grows. But that is simply because we are still tribe animals, not having yet evolved those parts of our psyche out of the question.

I think what I'm trying to say here is that nothing we do now is really human nature at all. It's all the product of our society.

Edit: Except drugs. Drugs are in our nature. And sex. And... Eating.

[Greater-London]

Yes, Capitalism creates "wealth and prosperity", but for a very small portion of society. It perpetuates a cycles of exploitation and amorality that intensifies with each passing year. Capitalism cannot be "fixed", because its nature is predatory, it feeds on the wealth of the masses and funnels it to the ethically bankrupt financial class.

Except that really isn't true because wealth is not a zero-sum game. The levels of prosperity of almost everyone in Capitalist nations has risen quite dramatically over the last half a century.

[Pilotto]

Really? It certainly is bizarre that it managed to be the dominant form of societal organization for almost 50,000 years.

Clearly history is false and the only thing that matters is my bottom line.
Or something.

What significant historical societies had no state, no currency, and no private ownership?

[Pilotto]

Yes, Capitalism creates "wealth and prosperity", but for a very small portion of society. It perpetuates a cycles of exploitation and amorality that intensifies with each passing year. Capitalism cannot be "fixed", because its nature is predatory, it feeds on the wealth of the masses and funnels it to the ethically bankrupt financial class.

Except that really isn't true because wealth is not a zero-sum game. The levels of prosperity of almost everyone in Capitalist nations has risen quite dramatically over the last half a century.

[Bythibus]

Except that really isn't true because wealth is not a zero-sum game. The levels of prosperity of almost everyone in Capitalist nations has risen quite dramatically over the last half a century.

Not being a zero-sum game doesn't mean the game can't be rigged.

[Estormo]

Exactly !
Communism goes against human nature, in general.

Really? It certainly is bizarre that it managed to be the dominant form of societal organization for almost 50,000 years.

It's funny because Communism didn't exist then.

[Pilotto]

Not being a zero-sum game doesn't mean the game can't be rigged.

Like communism can't be rigged?

[Universal Socialism]

Yes, Capitalism creates "wealth and prosperity", but for a very small portion of society. It perpetuates a cycles of exploitation and amorality that intensifies with each passing year. Capitalism cannot be "fixed", because its nature is predatory, it feeds on the wealth of the masses and funnels it to the ethically bankrupt financial class.

Except that really isn't true because wealth is not a zero-sum game. The levels of prosperity of almost everyone in Capitalist nations has risen quite dramatically over the last half a century.

That may be true in some places, but not all places (for ex. many places in africa). Also the dramatic rise is probably due to the development in infastructure, and technology.

[Estormo]

nah

capitalism creates wealth and prosperity. that's why north America and Europe are more prosperous than the former USSR and communist china. no one wants to go back to the days of a stupidly controlled economy.

but capitalism has severe problems associated with it that must be mitigated so that the majority of people can enjoy the prosperity. otherwise, as you said above, the rich get much richer while the poor get much poorer.

Yes, Capitalism creates "wealth and prosperity", but for a very small portion of society. It perpetuates a cycles of exploitation and amorality that intensifies with each passing year. Capitalism cannot be "fixed", because its nature is predatory, it feeds on the wealth of the masses and funnels it to the ethically bankrupt financial class.

Incorrect, Capitalism actually allows prosperity.
Example : Europe

[Bythibus]

Not being a zero-sum game doesn't mean the game can't be rigged.

Like communism can't be rigged?

Stop assuming I'm a communist, you're only making a fool of yourself.

[Pilotto]

Except that really isn't true because wealth is not a zero-sum game. The levels of prosperity of almost everyone in Capitalist nations has risen quite dramatically over the last half a century.

That may be true in some places, but not all places (for ex. many places in africa). Also the dramatic rise is probably due to the development in infastructure, and technology.

That's due to corruption and violence, not Capitalism.

[Pilotto]

Like communism can't be rigged?

Stop assuming I'm a communist, you're only making a fool of yourself.

You certainly do a good job of regurgitating the commie talking points for a non-communist.

[Bythibus]

That may be true in some places, but not all places (for ex. many places in africa). Also the dramatic rise is probably due to the development in infastructure, and technology.

That's due to corruption and violence, not Capitalism.

Capitalism, or some forms of it, provide avenues in which corruption and violence can be profitable.

[Estormo]

Like communism can't be rigged?

Stop assuming I'm a communist, you're only making a fool of yourself.

You're rapidly defending it, what do you expect us to think ?

[Pilotto]

That's due to corruption and violence, not Capitalism.

Capitalism, or some forms of it, provide avenues in which corruption and violence can be profitable.

And communism doesn't?