Does True Feminism Exist Anymore?

[Jeckland]

I doubt that, as most of them are women.

Feminism isn't like: Woman only on the top, men need to be separated.

Feminism goes about equal rights and anti-sexism, not about discriminate the other gender.

Yes, this is what I an many others believe.

The point I am trying to make is that quotas and such are not truly feminist, as they do not represent equality.

[Llamalandia]

Quit getting so angry over your crazy strawmen strawwomen.

I don't know how it is in Britain, but quotas in the USA that are based on race or gender are illegal.

In Britain, the police force uses them. Ludicrous.

Also in america if I recall the army has different physical fitness standards for men and women which doesn't really make much sense if your trying to recruit the best soldiers, but is a brilliant policy if you want more women in the army to make it look more politically correct.

[Camicon]

*mysognist/victimizedmajorityrant*

Replace the word "feminism" with "equal rights", if it makes you so uncomfortable. They mean the same damn thing.

[Jeckland]

In Britain, the police force uses them. Ludicrous.

Also in america if I recall the army has different physical fitness standards for men and women which doesn't really make much sense if your trying to recruit the best soldiers, but is a brilliant policy if you want more women in the army to make it look more politically correct.

This is the kinda thing I'm talking about. Recruit the best soldiers, regardless of their gender.

[Spartan Philidelphia]

Quit getting so angry over your crazy strawmen strawwomen.

I don't know how it is in Britain, but quotas in the USA that are based on race or gender are illegal.

Umm, no no they aren't... ever here of affirmative action. As I recall a few years back the supreme court made it harder to implement quotas but I don't think it outlawed them entirely.

Affirmative Action is not quotas.

[God Kefka]

I know what you are probably thinking. Of course feminism exists! It's stronger than ever! However some 'feminists' want more than equal rights for females, and for them to be given an advantage in jobseeking and other areas. The most obvious example of this is quotas, where a company says we need x number of female workers. They may also have racial quotas. What do you think about quotas? I think they are ridiculous, in my opinion Margret Thatcher had it right on this one, that a job should be given to the best person for it, whatever gender, race, sexuality, background etc. they come from. An example of where quotas are used is in the British Police Force, where in each area they have a number of cops representing each gender and race. I believe this is wrong, because they may not make the best policemen. What I think is even worse though is how the BBC, and indeed other companies, use more women and racial minorities. The whole idea of having quotas for women, and indeed ethnic minorities, in my opinion is wrong. I would define true feminism as what Margret Thatcher said. How would you define true feminism and what are your views on quotas?

so long as women aren't ready to accept their place in the world, feminism will continue in some form or another I think...

[Camicon]

Also in america if I recall the army has different physical fitness standards for men and women which doesn't really make much sense if your trying to recruit the best soldiers, but is a brilliant policy if you want more women in the army to make it look more politically correct.

This is the kinda thing I'm talking about. Recruit the best soldiers, regardless of their gender.

Such is only the case for jobs that do not require the individual working them to be on the front-lines. In other words, in order to actually go and shoot at people, fly planes, drive tanks and the like, the physical requirements are the same.

Umm, no no they aren't... ever here of affirmative action. As I recall a few years back the supreme court made it harder to implement quotas but I don't think it outlawed them entirely.

Affirmative Action is not quotas.

To expand, affirmative action is a policy meant to offset the systemic bias against women/minorities/etc.

I know what you are probably thinking. Of course feminism exists! It's stronger than ever! However some 'feminists' want more than equal rights for females, and for them to be given an advantage in jobseeking and other areas. The most obvious example of this is quotas, where a company says we need x number of female workers. They may also have racial quotas. What do you think about quotas? I think they are ridiculous, in my opinion Margret Thatcher had it right on this one, that a job should be given to the best person for it, whatever gender, race, sexuality, background etc. they come from. An example of where quotas are used is in the British Police Force, where in each area they have a number of cops representing each gender and race. I believe this is wrong, because they may not make the best policemen. What I think is even worse though is how the BBC, and indeed other companies, use more women and racial minorities. The whole idea of having quotas for women, and indeed ethnic minorities, in my opinion is wrong. I would define true feminism as what Margret Thatcher said. How would you define true feminism and what are your views on quotas?

so long as women aren't ready to accept their place in the world, feminism will continue in some form or another I think...

How refreshingly misogynist.

[Page]

I know what you are probably thinking. Of course feminism exists! It's stronger than ever! However some 'feminists' want more than equal rights for females, and for them to be given an advantage in jobseeking and other areas. The most obvious example of this is quotas, where a company says we need x number of female workers. They may also have racial quotas. What do you think about quotas? I think they are ridiculous, in my opinion Margret Thatcher had it right on this one, that a job should be given to the best person for it, whatever gender, race, sexuality, background etc. they come from. An example of where quotas are used is in the British Police Force, where in each area they have a number of cops representing each gender and race. I believe this is wrong, because they may not make the best policemen. What I think is even worse though is how the BBC, and indeed other companies, use more women and racial minorities. The whole idea of having quotas for women, and indeed ethnic minorities, in my opinion is wrong. I would define true feminism as what Margret Thatcher said. How would you define true feminism and what are your views on quotas?

so long as women aren't ready to accept their place in the world, feminism will continue in some form or another I think...

lol

[Olthar]

Considering the world is still very much sexist, feminism is definitely necessary, and I will proudly call myself one until I die.

[Jeckland]

Considering the world is still very much sexist, feminism is definitely necessary, and I will proudly call myself one until I die.

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

[Aequalitia]

Feminism isn't like: Woman only on the top, men need to be separated.

Feminism goes about equal rights and anti-sexism, not about discriminate the other gender.

Yes, this is what I an many others believe.

The point I am trying to make is that quotas and such are not truly feminist, as they do not represent equality.

Indeed. Going fight sexism with sexism is stupid and don't would do something really helpful.

But feminism should still existing, and should always stay on this world until the last sexist person in the world opened his eyes for feminism.

Considering the world is still very much sexist, feminism is definitely necessary, and I will proudly call myself one until I die.

You should be proud on that, Olthar, we need more people like you

[Camicon]

Considering the world is still very much sexist, feminism is definitely necessary, and I will proudly call myself one until I die.

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

The people that openly and aggressively advocate for a reversal of roles are not feminists (i.e. supporters of equal rights), and they do not advocate for feminism (i.e. equal rights).

[Jeckland]

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

The people that openly and aggressively advocate for a reversal of roles are not feminists (i.e. supporters of equal rights), and they do not advocate for feminism (i.e. equal rights).

they call themselves feminists, though I agree with you.

[Olthar]

Considering the world is still very much sexist, feminism is definitely necessary, and I will proudly call myself one until I die.

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

I'm not sure how equal rights can go "too far..."

[Jeckland]

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

I'm not sure how equal rights can go "too far..."

When some people are more equal than others.

[Llamalandia]

This is the kinda thing I'm talking about. Recruit the best soldiers, regardless of their gender.

Such is only the case for jobs that do not require the individual working them to be on the front-lines. In other words, in order to actually go and shoot at people, fly planes, drive tanks and the like, the physical requirements are the same.

Affirmative Action is not quotas.

To expand, affirmative action is a policy meant to offset the systemic bias against women/minorities/etc.

so long as women aren't ready to accept their place in the world, feminism will continue in some form or another I think...

How refreshingly misogynist.

Umm pilots get shot down now and again, (though actually women generally make better fighter pilots then though), everyone goes through basic training and even the most far remove soldier is expect to be able to fight if it comes to that. There have been plenty of instances in Iraq and Afghanistan where non-frontline units have had to fight off enemy attacks. So again, generally, the best soldier is often going to be the fittest soldier.

As for systemic bias seriously? It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender how can there be systemic bias? Besides, quotas go against individgual liberty and equality, people should be treated as individguals and not as a group. BEsides if company a or b or c fails to hire the best applicant merely because she is a woman, then no doubt company D will snatch her up and be the better and more prosperous for it. Hence capitalism is inherently designed to mitigate such bias.

Also, the point is in things like firefighting for example, I know I sure as heck want the best qualified person to rescue me and if that happens to be a woman great if not that's ok too. the problem is quotas in the name of correcting bias lead to employing people who aren't the best qualified merely to make society "feel better" about itself.

All this said, there are still some real feminists it's just that there mostly in mideast countries and many have to hide or are imprisoned or worse... they of course are fighting for things like, you know letting girls actually go to school or being able to drive a car or even just walk down the street without a male escourt. So yes true feminists do still exist there just aren't a whole heck of a lot left in western countries.

[Aequalitia]

I am not saying feminism is a bad thing or unessecary, however I would say that some take it too far.

I'm not sure how equal rights can go "too far..."

I think Jeck means those 'feminists' who in fact want to 'cure' sexism with sexism.

I don't think Jeck means the real goal feminism.

[Orham]

Also in america if I recall the army has different physical fitness standards for men and women which doesn't really make much sense if your trying to recruit the best soldiers, but is a brilliant policy if you want more women in the army to make it look more politically correct.

This is the kinda thing I'm talking about. Recruit the best soldiers, regardless of their gender.

Did either of you know that part of the physical readiness standards for the US armed services is an evaluation of the subject's body fat percentage? A cookie to the first of you who figures out why I mentioned that as a means through which to show that what you both just said is insanely stupid.

[Olthar]

I'm not sure how equal rights can go "too far..."

When some people are more equal than others.

That's an oxymoron.

[Llamalandia]

Umm, no no they aren't... ever here of affirmative action. As I recall a few years back the supreme court made it harder to implement quotas but I don't think it outlawed them entirely.

Affirmative Action is not quotas.

This is true but it similarly allows for the advancement of the lesser qualified over the more qualified which is both inherently unfair and a blatantly bad policy.

[Camicon]

The people that openly and aggressively advocate for a reversal of roles are not feminists (i.e. supporters of equal rights), and they do not advocate for feminism (i.e. equal rights).

they call themselves feminists, though I agree with you.

I could grill steaks every Friday, and call myself a vegetarian. I could go to war, and call myself a pacifist. I could call for the matriarchy, and call myself a feminist. The funny thing is, there are certain things that vegetarians and pacifists and feminists must avoid, if they want to be able to legitimately identify themselves as such. Vegetarians cannot eat meat. Pacifists cannot engage in violence. Feminists cannot call for a matriarchy. If they do one of those things, then what they self-identify as doesn't matter, because they are clearly factually wrong.

[The BaRen]

How about this: No one has rights! Everybody is therefore equal under oppression!

On the serious side, I believe this is bullshit because people should be hired based on ability and accountability. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Llamalandia]

they call themselves feminists, though I agree with you.

I could grill steaks every Friday, and call myself a vegetarian. I could go to war, and call myself a pacifist. I could call for the matriarchy, and call myself a feminist. The funny thing is, there are certain things that vegetarians and pacifists and feminists must avoid, if they want to be able to legitimately identify themselves as such. Vegetarians cannot eat meat. Pacifists cannot engage in violence. Feminists cannot call for a matriarchy. If they do one of those things, then what they self-identify as doesn't matter, because they are clearly factually wrong.

I think part of the problem is that the few remaining true feminists don't call out the fakers. At least it doesn't happen very often as far as I can tell. The silence from moderates does seem to lend a certain credibility to the extremist out there. It's a tacit approval if nothing else.

[Olthar]

It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender how can there be systemic bias?

Murder is illegal, so how can there be murder? :V

[Llamalandia]

It's illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender how can there be systemic bias?

Murder is illegal, so how can there be murder? :V

The difference the bias must be obvious and therefor the party discriminated against can sue, and trust me I bet half the time companies settle even if their innocent just to avoid the cost of potential litigation.