I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[Pandeeria]

The context is he was talking about Bundy and his criminal buddies preventing the BLM from doing their fucking job.

Now, now, no need to get angry. He said, though, "we can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it."
He - a man who lives and works thousands of miles from that ranch and is a very important national politician - has politicized this issue to highlight that his view, and the view of the federal government, is that the people should obey the law regardless of what the law is and how it came to exist. Believe me, a major national politician doesn't just comment randomly on local issues.

Except it has gotten very major and well known.

He's simply saying that people that are legally in the wrong shouldn't be following Bundy's example. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Quintium]

What the supposed facts are here - legally, the federal government is entirely in the right even though its argument is based on its own legislation - is not even the core of the issue. The core of the issue is the ridiculously politicized and overdrawn reaction from the federal government. Their intention was not just to take the cattle and get the rancher off the land. Their intention was to make an example of him, as they have done with all the ranchers who used to also use that land. They've been legally battering these ranchers until they gave up for decades, after demanding fees for them for another couple of decades.

Ah... You're a conspiracy theorist. kthanxbai.

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

[The Re-Frisivisiaing]

Damn gubmint.

[Bolrieg]

Them Bundys always killing things and putting them in makeshift graves.

[Vazdania]

Damn gubmint.

FRIS IS BACK!


In other affairs...

Damn Gubmint.

[Roski]

Ah... You're a conspiracy theorist. kthanxbai.

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

[Dyakovo]

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

And the other criminals that turned up to "support" Bundy on this latest seizure attempt.

[Boomhaueristan]

What a waste of delicious beef.

Two whole steers? Damn it Barack.

[Vazdania]

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

That'd be pulling a Waco.

[Roski]

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

And the other criminals that turned up to "support" Bundy on this latest seizure attempt.

They wouldn't have come around. If they family members were arrested, they couldn't have called for help.
People notice a siege. People don't notice a helicopter coming in to say hi.

[Roski]

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

That'd be pulling a Waco.

Not necessarily.
Had they attempted to do it after the Family called for help, then they would be.

[Imperializt Russia]

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

That'd be pulling a Waco.

I suggest you read up on the Waco siege.

[Quintium]

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

The point is that they, along with the Bundy family, have deliberately made this into a national political issue instead of a local legal issue. They've let the situation escalate so they could use it as a vehicle to push their personal and political views. At some point, the fact that it's a political issue becomes more important than the facts of the matter. You could compare it to Apple and Samsung having all kinds of legal conflicts. They don't really care about the shape of the edges of a smartphone screen - they just want to establish the dominance of their view on the matter, so that they can legitimize their future actions with it. Similarly, other ranchers could now start to resist interference from this bureau, and if this bureau had been able to clear them out after this televised drama, that bureau would have been able to prevent some future problems by simply scaring ranchers off.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

They do have a point though, enough is enough. However, a quick SWAT team OP to arrest the family would be much better.

They'll press charges against him in federal court, and they'll try to basically bleed his ability to defend himself, and beat him up on technical grounds. They'll put him in a situation where he'll end up with a determination of liability that would be so great that he will have to sell his ranch to them to extinguish his debt.

That is what is more likely to happen, I doubt they'd use armed intervention as a first resort, unlike the gun-toting trigger happy unregulated militias and teabaggers.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Ummm... So why am I supposed to be outraged exactly? What is the point of trying to make it out like they are exposing the government's dirty secrets when it is something the government has already admitted? Or am I supposed to be upset about cows not getting a proper Christian burial?

Maybe I am making painfully obvious that I have lived my entire adult life in cities that are too densely settled to graze cattle, but I really don't get why I am supposed to be upset. Are basic human rights being violated? No. Does it affect me in any way? No. Would it have been difficult for Bundy to prevent this? No.

This is the reason people are upset, and the "neglect" of the Cattle, as Bundy puts it, has led to many deaths in them.

And? I don't see how it makes sense to eat hamburger (which I do) and then get upset about cattle being killed.

Many had to be put down, as per Bundy, and if this were true, the BLM has seriously lost this.

This will not help to calm the "storm" of "patriots" that are attempting to attack the government.
In fact, this may fuel some sort of revolt. I do not know why or what type of revolt will occur, but there are some news sources that are afraid that many tax violations are going to occur.

Which means the possibility of militarization.

It's unlikely to cause a large revolt.

If it did escalate to the point of states seceding, that would actually be a good thing. But more likely the feds just knock some sense into people and then everyone goes home.

[Wind in the Willows]

Hopefully the lefties look at the other sources without moaning about InfoWars and Fox News.

Hopefully the literal Nazi bothered to read the thread to learn how sources work.

Nazi? Who's a Nazi?

[Quintium]

Here's some more context.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... nch-stand/

The simmering truce between the Bundys and the Bureau of Land Management comes after high-profile raids last year by armed federal agents on small-time gold miners in tiny Chicken, Alaska, and guitar makers at the Gibson Guitar facilities in Tennessee.

That doesn’t include more subtle threats, such as recent efforts by the Obama administration to raise grazing fees or pressure permit holders to transfer their water rights as a condition of renewal, said Ryan Yates, director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau.

[AiliailiA]

What a waste of delicious beef.

Two whole steers? Damn it Barack.

About 33 million cattle are slaughtered each year in the US.

That's commercial slaughter (not counting hunting or ranchers euthanasing animals or killing for their own consumption) and doesn't include calves.

Killing all of Bundy's cattle would amount to 0.003 % of the annual slaughter.

But maybe there's a better way. BLM could declare the cattle to be abandoned property, allowing anyone who wants one to take it away dead or alive. Then the cattle aren't needlessly killed, it doesn't cost BLM anything, and folks like yourself can stock the freezer.

Rustle them jimmies.

[Boomhaueristan]

This is the reason people are upset, and the "neglect" of the Cattle, as Bundy puts it, has led to many deaths in them.

And? I don't see how it makes sense to eat hamburger (which I do) and then get upset about cattle being killed.

Because its a waste, for consumers and the ranch.

The steers weren't sold or distributed, meaning a waste of investment.

We're talking about:
Medicine
Feed
Time
And solid cash if the steer was bought as a calf

Cows are not cheap to raise, they need to be sold or cut up and distributed to return a profit or feed the family.
And as someone who has experience in the business, it's not good at all. Unless the steers were sick but even then the Bundys should have had them returned.

It's a shitty business.

[Grave_n_idle]

Warning. The images in the sources provided below may be disturbing
SOURCES: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/blm-2-bulls-euthanized-during-cliven-bundy-cattle-roundup

Posted to the official Bundy Ranch Facebook page, the gruesome image shows several dead cattle being removed from a makeshift grave discovered just this weekend.
“Digging up 1 of the HUGE holes where they threw the cows that they had ran to death or shot,” the picture’s description reads. “I feel that this NEEDS to be put out for the public to see.”
The picture backs up reports by several people including Nevada assemblywoman Michele Fiore, who commented on the BLM’s cattle graves last Tuesday.
“Near their compound, right off the highway, they were digging holes,” Fiore said. “They tried to bury some cows on the compound, but I guess they didn’t dig the hole deep enough, so they throw a cow in and they put dirt over him and you have cows’ legs sticking up out of the dirt.”
Fiore also displayed several photos on her Twitter account Sunday, labeling the incident the “BLM Massacre.”


As expected, American "Patriotic" Militia are uprising (again), and appear to be threatening a revolution of sorts.

The family claims that the "massacre" is unlawful, and federal agents have admitted to shooting the cattle.

Of course, the feds said one thing, and did another!

I personally think this is just a bunch of bull. The Federal Government really doesn't need to tax for grazing, and the family claims the land is still theirs. Moreover, the rapid militarization of Nevada, supported by the Governor, and attacked by the Senator, was more than uncalled for.
This again seems that these "Patriots" are more hell bent on destabilizing the country, instead of doing things through politics.
In my opinion, both sides are wrong.

What say you, nationstates?

Dude deliberately trespasses, over a consistent period of decades. Every legal action finds that he is trespassing on federal land. He cries about it. Sean Hannity cries about it. Herman Cain cries about it. Rush Limbaugh cries about it.

Some cows - apparently two - may have been killed. Their bodies are buried, rather than ground up and shipped to McDonalds.

This is so not a news story.

[Geilinor]

Ah... You're a conspiracy theorist. kthanxbai.

You can attempt to discredit my position by saying I'm a conspiracy theorist, but you have to keep two things in mind.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much. No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

Most battles over ownership do not last 20 years. Bundy has been fighting these fees in the federal courts since 1993 and I'm sure that has wasted quite a bit of money. The government wants to establish a precedent because it doesn't want to have to deal with these troublesome disputes with other ranchers. I don't think the government is being an ass in this case.

[Geilinor]

And? I don't see how it makes sense to eat hamburger (which I do) and then get upset about cattle being killed.

Because its a waste, for consumers and the ranch.

The steers weren't sold or distributed, meaning a waste of investment.

We're talking about:
Medicine
Feed
Time
And solid cash if the steer was bought as a calf

Cows are not cheap to raise, they need to be sold or cut up and distributed to return a profit or feed the family.
And as someone who has experience in the business, it's not good at all. Unless the steers were sick but even then the Bundys should have had them returned.

It's a shitty business.

The Bundys could have made an effort to get their cows off of the land.

[Shie]

Why is this Bundy guy not in prison?

[Shie]

Because its a waste, for consumers and the ranch.

The steers weren't sold or distributed, meaning a waste of investment.

We're talking about:
Medicine
Feed
Time
And solid cash if the steer was bought as a calf

Cows are not cheap to raise, they need to be sold or cut up and distributed to return a profit or feed the family.
And as someone who has experience in the business, it's not good at all. Unless the steers were sick but even then the Bundys should have had them returned.

It's a shitty business.

The Bundys could have made an effort to get their cows off of the land.

Farms shouldn't be owned by private bodies anyway.

[Death Metal]

Why is this Bundy guy not in prison?

Bullies with guns are backing him.