I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[Sibirsky]

Libertarians cheerleading for a freeloading secessionist. Shocker.

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

[Geilinor]

Rory Reid doesn't have a position to be impeached from.

Harry.

Sibirsky has mentioned both Reids, I really don't know what he's talking about now.

[Sibirsky]

No it's not.
The BLM manages public-access lands because the public can't be bothered to.
They are not empowered to restrict access to those grounds for no reason.
The reason they have given in this case is bullshit (pun intended).

If the owners (public) feel that the land has been mismanaged, they can withdraw power to manage granted to current BLM staff by removing the general managers of the public estates (government) as per bylaw (elections on 2016).
None of which detract from the ranchers responsibility to pay the legal price set by body indirectly empowered by the owners.

BLM employees are not elected. None of them.

[Geilinor]

Why should we disprove a claim that might as well not exist? Do you have any sources implicating the Chinese?

Why should I answer your nonsensical analogies?

Why should I disprove your nonsensical conspiracies?

[Geilinor]

Libertarians cheerleading for a freeloading secessionist. Shocker.

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

He cares more about his secessionism than his livelihood. I gave you a source about how deluded he is.

[Gauthier]

Libertarians cheerleading for a freeloading secessionist. Shocker.

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

Bundy is doing everything you rail at poor people for supposedly doing- namely freeloading and mooching, and you're instead hailing him as a folk hero against the Ebil Nanny State.

[Swanderfeld]

If the owners (public) feel that the land has been mismanaged, they can withdraw power to manage granted to current BLM staff by removing the general managers of the public estates (government) as per bylaw (elections on 2016).
None of which detract from the ranchers responsibility to pay the legal price set by body indirectly empowered by the owners.

BLM employees are not elected. None of them.

I never claimed they were. They are however appointed by people who are elected atleast once in the chain.

[Distruzio]

The government is right, only because the US is not a democratic State in structure but, rather, a Federal Republic. Were this guy to try his shenanigans in, say, ancient Athens.... I'd have to agree with him.

If no one owns the governmental authority, then no one owns "government land."

Of course.... reality tends to kick you in the ass harder than you expected.

This makes no sense. The system of governance is irrelevant.

The government is only right because they make the rules. The government is morally wrong.

I didn't mention the "system" of government. I mentioned the structure of it. Meaning that since the US federal government doesn't pretend to be democratic in structure (i.e. comprised "of the common people" rather than their representatives) then no common person can claim that government land is unowned. It is owned. By the chosen sovereign ruling over the common people.

Buddy is incorrect to assume that because anyone can be elected to public office no singular entity owns government land.

[Sibirsky]

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

He cares more about his secessionism than his livelihood. I gave you a source about how deluded he is.

What he cares about, is relevant to what I care about, how, exactly?

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

Bundy is doing everything you rail at poor people for supposedly doing- namely freeloading and mooching, and you're instead hailing him as a folk hero against the Ebil Nanny State.

I rail against poor people? What?

[Hurdegaryp]

So he's refused to pay the grazing fee, more or less blatantly breaking the law, and people are coming to protest in his support for breaking the law?

Maybe he thinks he's Judge Dredd.

No, it's more like Judge Dredd is coming for him and his volunteer gang of outlaws.

[Tekania]

As far as I am concerned this has gone far enough. The court should have Mr. Bundy confined till he follows the court's orders. Civil contempt confinement would apply in this case.

[Trollgaard]

Maybe he thinks he's Judge Dredd.

No, it's more like Judge Dredd is coming for him and his volunteer gang of outlaws.

Then there will be blood. There are heavily armed volunteers guarding the Bundy ranch.

If the government goes in they deserve a bloody nose, and whoever ordered such a raid should shot for treason.

[Jocabia]

Libertarians cheerleading for a freeloading secessionist. Shocker.

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

He was stealing.

So if I decided that the amount he charges for his cattle is excessive, would you support me stealing from him?

Because he was getting to graze his cattle for free when every other rancher was paying for it, he was getting a market advantage over everyone else. As such, he was the one destroying livelihoods through unfair competition. If the government continued to allow him to do so, they would be supplementing his costs and allowing him to to undercut others. Do you really support the government participating in unfair market practices?

[Trollgaard]

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

He was stealing.

So if I decided that the amount he charges for his cattle is excessive, would you support me stealing from him?

Because he was getting to graze his cattle for free when every other rancher was paying for it, he was getting a market advantage over everyone else. As such, he was the one destroying livelihoods through unfair competition. If the government continued to allow him to do so, they would be supplementing his costs and allowing him to to undercut others. Do you really support the government participating in unfair market practices?

No, the other ranchers were driven out of business because one year the BLM arbitrarily decided to cut 90% or so of the number of cattle allowed to graze on the land.

Could you survive if 90% of your income was suddenly and without reason cut? I couldn't...

[Sibirsky]

No, it's more like Judge Dredd is coming for him and his volunteer gang of outlaws.

Then there will be blood. There are heavily armed volunteers guarding the Bundy ranch.

If the government goes in they deserve a bloody nose, and whoever ordered such a raid should shot for treason.

I am not sure how something like this can be avoided, at this point.

We are defending him, because his livelihood is being destroyed.

He was stealing.

So if I decided that the amount he charges for his cattle is excessive, would you support me stealing from him?

Because he was getting to graze his cattle for free when every other rancher was paying for it, he was getting a market advantage over everyone else. As such, he was the one destroying livelihoods through unfair competition. If the government continued to allow him to do so, they would be supplementing his costs and allowing him to to undercut others. Do you really support the government participating in unfair market practices?

I would support you choosing to not buy his cattle.

Except, the analogy is not quite that simple. There is no competitor to the BLM to go to, in this case.

[Jocabia]

He was stealing.

So if I decided that the amount he charges for his cattle is excessive, would you support me stealing from him?

Because he was getting to graze his cattle for free when every other rancher was paying for it, he was getting a market advantage over everyone else. As such, he was the one destroying livelihoods through unfair competition. If the government continued to allow him to do so, they would be supplementing his costs and allowing him to to undercut others. Do you really support the government participating in unfair market practices?

No, the other ranchers were driven out of business because one year the BLM arbitrarily decided to cut 90% or so of the number of cattle allowed to graze on the land.

Could you survive if 90% of your income was suddenly and without reason cut? I couldn't...

Bundy is the sole cattle rancher in the United States? He has no competition whatsoever?

[Gig em Aggies]

Why should we disprove a claim that might as well not exist? Do you have any sources implicating the Chinese?

Why should I answer your nonsensical analogies?

Why should we answer yours?

[Trollgaard]

No, the other ranchers were driven out of business because one year the BLM arbitrarily decided to cut 90% or so of the number of cattle allowed to graze on the land.

Could you survive if 90% of your income was suddenly and without reason cut? I couldn't...

Bundy is the sole cattle rancher in the United States? He has no competition whatsoever?

In his county, I believe. There used to be 53 other ranchers, I think, in his county, now its just him because the BLM fucked over everybody, and Bundy rightfully essentially went 'fuck that jazz'.

[Sibirsky]

Why should I answer your nonsensical analogies?

Why should we answer yours?

I did not ask any nonsensical questions. So, there is nothing to answer.

[Hurdegaryp]

No, it's more like Judge Dredd is coming for him and his volunteer gang of outlaws.

Then there will be blood. There are heavily armed volunteers guarding the Bundy ranch.

If the government goes in they deserve a bloody nose, and whoever ordered such a raid should shot for treason.

I don't see why it's treason. You must live in a fantasy world. Insurgents need to be dealt with, this is all according to the law.

[Jocabia]

Then there will be blood. There are heavily armed volunteers guarding the Bundy ranch.

If the government goes in they deserve a bloody nose, and whoever ordered such a raid should shot for treason.

I am not sure how something like this can be avoided, at this point.

He was stealing.

So if I decided that the amount he charges for his cattle is excessive, would you support me stealing from him?

Because he was getting to graze his cattle for free when every other rancher was paying for it, he was getting a market advantage over everyone else. As such, he was the one destroying livelihoods through unfair competition. If the government continued to allow him to do so, they would be supplementing his costs and allowing him to to undercut others. Do you really support the government participating in unfair market practices?

I would support you choosing to not buy his cattle.

Except, the analogy is not quite that simple. There is no competitor to the BLM to go to, in this case.

Again, he is not the only cattle rancher in the United States.

If you graze cattle on your own land, it has a cost. If you graze cattle on other people's land it has a cost. Bundy is the only one (of those we know) that gets to graze his cattle for free. As such, that gives him a market advantage over every legit rancher in the country. He's had 20 years to drum up the support to change the law if he feels it's unfair. However, to take advantage of the government not forcing him to follow the law sooner and use it to create market advantage is wrong. And the government is wrong to be complicit. More so, the government would be violating the law, and the BLM would be violating the specific responsibility they were given, by not enforcing the fees.

If what you're saying is that he's justified in armed rebellion because the government is corrupt (and it's certainly what he's claiming), then I think it should be treated as such. I'm gonna guess that the government is the odds on favorite in that one. The only reason the government doesn't treat it as such is because they aren't as corrupt as many claim. They actually have been fairly gentle with this man. This man is counting on the government being gentle and protecting him, because if he lived somewhere that had an actual tyranny, then he'd be a crater by now.

[Jocabia]

Bundy is the sole cattle rancher in the United States? He has no competition whatsoever?

In his county, I believe. There used to be 53 other ranchers, I think, in his county, now its just him because the BLM fucked over everybody, and Bundy rightfully essentially went 'fuck that jazz'.

Unfortunately, he doesn't only sell meat in that county. And that county isn't an free republic independent of the United States. He is bound by US law and frankly, he's lucky that the government didn't enforce it more vehemently and much sooner. They've tried every way possible to allow him time to come to his senses. He refused. I think it's time to force him.

[Geilinor]

Bundy is the sole cattle rancher in the United States? He has no competition whatsoever?

In his county, I believe. There used to be 53 other ranchers, I think, in his county, now its just him because the BLM fucked over everybody, and Bundy rightfully essentially went 'fuck that jazz'.

Clark County isn't the only county in Nevada.

[Gig em Aggies]

I know the perfect judge for this dick head.


All hail the queen of mean ......Judge Judy.

[Geilinor]

Why should we answer yours?

I did not ask any nonsensical questions. So, there is nothing to answer.

Snopes says that the Reids and Chinese companies have nothing to do with this. http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp