I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[Greed and Death]

And he is going easy on them by only running off the BLM instead of shooting.

Neither Bundy, his family, his employees or his supporters have any legal justification to shoot. And you know it.

I agree, just it seems like it will be really difficult for the federal government to enforce the court rulings given the current situation.

[AiliailiA]

Are you assuming Viritica is American? Or do you know that?

He knows I'm American.

Okay then. I probably should have guessed, given that you blame "your country" for not teaching you something in school.

Do you know how much of America's school funding comes from the Federal government? Would you care to take a guess?

[Greed and Death]

He knows I'm American.

Okay then. I probably should have guessed, given that you blame "your country" for not teaching you something in school.

Do you know how much of America's school funding comes from the Federal government? Would you care to take a guess?

8.3% According to the government.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/1 ... html?exp=3

[AiliailiA]

Neither Bundy, his family, his employees or his supporters have any legal justification to shoot. And you know it.

I agree, just it seems like it will be really difficult for the federal government to enforce the court rulings given the current situation.

They can dispose of the cattle in any way they see fit. Personally I think they should just shoot them and leave them on the ground for anyone who wants to take them.

[Greed and Death]

I agree, just it seems like it will be really difficult for the federal government to enforce the court rulings given the current situation.

They can dispose of the cattle in any way they see fit. Personally I think they should just shoot them and leave them on the ground for anyone who wants to take them.

If they take the cattle they have to pay him ( cancel out his debt on a dollar for dollar basis) so for the sake of lower taxes lets not waste the money.

[AiliailiA]

Okay then. I probably should have guessed, given that you blame "your country" for not teaching you something in school.

Do you know how much of America's school funding comes from the Federal government? Would you care to take a guess?

8.3% According to the government.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/1 ... html?exp=3

Or 10% if private schools are left out of the equation. I'm just trying to make the point that if Viritica's school failed, that's probably the fault of his local school board not the federal government.

[AiliailiA]

They can dispose of the cattle in any way they see fit. Personally I think they should just shoot them and leave them on the ground for anyone who wants to take them.

If they take the cattle they have to pay him ( cancel out his debt on a dollar for dollar basis) so for the sake of lower taxes lets not waste the money.

Rounding them up costs more than they're worth. There's no reason to try that again.

[Tekania]

Actually, a million dollars is merciful. From the October 2013 judgement:

This case arises out of Bundy’s unauthorized and unlawful grazing of his livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Department of the Interior (“the DOI”) through the Bureau of Land Management (“the BLM”) and the National Park Service (“the NPS”). On November 3, 1998, the Court issued an Order permanently enjoining Bundy from grazing his livestock on the former Bunkerville Allotment (“the Allotment”), and ordering him to remove his livestock from the Allotment by no later than November 30, 1998, and pay damages to the United States in the amount of $200 per day per head for any remaining livestock on the allotment after November 30, 1998. Doc. #19.

Bundy claims 550 cattle, and we know for certain that 400 of his cattle were grazing on federal land because that's how many the BLM rounded up. Other estimates of how many cattle have his brand are 1000 and 1100.

Between Nov 3 1998 and the present (20 April in the US) is 5646 days.

So he owes something between 451 million and 1.2 billion dollars in fines!

The BLM is going easy on him by claiming only a million ...

Most of the official BLM source usually quote as "more than 1.3 million dollars", the "one million dollars" thing is just a generalization. I think in rough estimates I have done in combined trespass fees and cattle removal contract operations his amount owed is closer to $6 million (on the low end). Cattle are generally grazed through spring/summer seasons and prior to 1999 he had less cattle grazing on the land than present. High end may be close to $10 million.

[Roski]

8.3% According to the government.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/1 ... html?exp=3

Or 10% if private schools are left out of the equation. I'm just trying to make the point that if Viritica's school failed, that's probably the fault of his local school board not the federal government.

(leaves something out)
(adds more)

[Azaflaza]

Saw the name Bundy and "mass grave" and assumed the worst.

[Baader-Meinhof Gruppe]

I don't see what the big deal is. Bundy is obviously in the wrong. Why in the hell would you get into ranching or farming if you knew from the start you didn't have the land to take care of your cattle? Sure, you can borrow land from others but that should only be temporary and you would look to expand. Bundy didn't do that and when the government said "enough, buy your own land" he got butthurt and refused to pay taxes even though the taxpayers had loaned him land so that he could keep on ranching even though he knew he didn't have the right resources to do so. It's like a banker bitching that they went belly up when they loaned out more money than they had.

[Death Metal]

Or 10% if private schools are left out of the equation. I'm just trying to make the point that if Viritica's school failed, that's probably the fault of his local school board not the federal government.

(leaves something out)
(adds more)

Take the ten smallest numbers out of a pool of 100 numbers, the average of the numbers will typically rise.

It's basic math (and one of the many ways Cato Institute and other laissez-faire "think" thanks fudge numbers)

[Risottia]

What say you, nationstates?

The Bundy problem is nothing 20000 soldiers from the National Guard and some 50 tanks with the support of 20 helicopters couldn't fix. Permanently fix I mean.

[Imperializt Russia]

I don't care about Bundy losing his investment. He brought this on himself.

No he didn't. He was trying to feed his family, should they have to pay for his mistakes (really, it's the government's fault)

It's the government's fault... for Bundy not removing his cattle from federal lands that he wilfully chose to not pay the grazing fees to graze... twenty years ago?

This is... impressive leap of logic.

Or, you know, I understand that the food chain is a gross misrepresentation of an ecosystem's cycle of predation and nourishment and you, apparently, don't.

So snippy.

If you think that what my country teaches us is wrong then by all means take it up with them. Don't bitch to me about it.

If you haven't yet realised that what school teaches you about most topics is a gross simplification, ignoring for a moment you were probably educated in the US public school system, you've a lot of growing up to do.

What your country taught you is the simplest understanding of predation and nourishment. It is incorrect in that it does not take into account how complex the system really is. It is however much easier to understand.

So... do you think that American children don't know what a food web is?

In many states, they're being taught it alongside creationism, I don't trust the entire school system to get this sort of thing right.

[AiliailiA]

What say you, nationstates?

The Bundy problem is nothing 20000 soldiers from the National Guard and some 50 tanks with the support of 20 helicopters couldn't fix. Permanently fix I mean.

That's a bit heavy handed. I'd use invisible antigravity craft with tractor beams from the nearby Nevada Test Range. It's only a couple of hundred kilometres away.

When Bundy and his minions start gibbering about aliens, cattle mutilation and anal probing, the Federal government should go stone silent for a week, to let the right wing bloggers build up a good head of steam.

Then the President, with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs on his right and the Secretary of Defense on his left, should announce "In a regrettable breach of security on April 22 this year, extraterrestrial aliens escaped from our secure facility at Area 51 in Nevada and molested innocent civilians in Clark County Nevada, as well as some other civilians. These aliens have since been taken into custody and are being held elsewhere. There is no danger to law-abiding citizens at this time, and the victims are receiving good medical care and counselling at a location we cannot disclose at this time. Please direct your questions to General Martin Dempsey. General?"

[Death Metal]

Guys, how insane is Bundy?

Well, according to Jon Stewart:

EVEN GLENN BECK TOLD HIM TO FUCK OFF.

When a raving dominionist lunatic like Beck tells you to you're too right wing,...

[Geilinor]

They can dispose of the cattle in any way they see fit. Personally I think they should just shoot them and leave them on the ground for anyone who wants to take them.

If they take the cattle they have to pay him ( cancel out his debt on a dollar for dollar basis) so for the sake of lower taxes lets not waste the money.

That could work. Take Bundy's cows and sell them to collect some of the money he owes.

[Sociobiology]

If they take the cattle they have to pay him ( cancel out his debt on a dollar for dollar basis) so for the sake of lower taxes lets not waste the money.

That could work. Take Bundy's cows and sell them to collect some of the money he owes.

thats what they were planning on doing, they had even auctioned them off. when they went to collect the cows however, thats when the crazy hit the fan.
how did we end up with two threads about this?

[NERVUN]

That could work. Take Bundy's cows and sell them to collect some of the money he owes.

thats what they were planning on doing, they had even auctioned them off. when they went to collect the cows however, thats when the crazy hit the fan.
how did we end up with two threads about this?

Not exactly sure, I'm gonna merge them however.

Please stand by.

edit: Done!

[Blakk Metal]

Saw the name Bundy and "mass grave" and assumed the worst.

Having the last name Bundy must suck.

[Tekania]

Guys, how insane is Bundy?

Well, according to Jon Stewart:

EVEN GLENN BECK TOLD HIM TO FUCK OFF.

When a raving dominionist lunatic like Beck tells you to you're too right wing,...

A clear indication that no matter how close to the wing tip you think someone is, you're eventually going to run into someone closer to the tip.

[Blakk Metal]

All but one of the first page Google results for Bundy are now related to this case. Goddamn.

[Tekania]

All but one of the first page Google results for Bundy are now related to this case. Goddamn.

Yes, but soon the IMDB page link for the 2002 Ted Bundy film will be driven off as well!

[Blakk Metal]

All but one of the first page Google results for Bundy are now related to this case. Goddamn.

Yes, but soon the IMDB page link for the 2002 Ted Bundy film will be driven off as well!

The only non-Cliven link I can see now is Ted's Wikipedia page.

[Tekania]

Yes, but soon the IMDB page link for the 2002 Ted Bundy film will be driven off as well!

The only non-Cliven link I can see now is Ted's Wikipedia page.

Well I've checked again, Ted appears to be making a comeback, now I have teh IMDB page as well as teh wiki page for the film and Ted Bundy.

IT is the google Battle of the Bundys!!!!!!