I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[Geilinor]

The Bundys could have made an effort to get their cows off of the land.

Farms shouldn't be owned by private bodies anyway.

That's a topic for later.

[Dyakovo]

Why is this Bundy guy not in prison?

A very good question.

[Boomhaueristan]

Because its a waste, for consumers and the ranch.

The steers weren't sold or distributed, meaning a waste of investment.

We're talking about:
Medicine
Feed
Time
And solid cash if the steer was bought as a calf

Cows are not cheap to raise, they need to be sold or cut up and distributed to return a profit or feed the family.
And as someone who has experience in the business, it's not good at all. Unless the steers were sick but even then the Bundys should have had them returned.

It's a shitty business.

The Bundys could have made an effort to get their cows off of the land.

Maybe when they still had a chance before the Feds took over, yes.

Now, they're kind of up against helicopters and a highly funded force.

Ranch hands vs Helicopters
My bet is on the helicopters.

[Nazi Flower Power]

They should, but that can't happen without the South starting a civil war.

Even California and New York have a movement.

It's too small to be meaningful in those states.

Point is, if you try to do that, there will be a lot of deaths and Riots over the entire country.

I live in Massachusetts. We are not going to riot over this because it is stupid and it has nothing to do with our state.

[Dyakovo]

The Bundys could have made an effort to get their cows off of the land.

Maybe when they still had a chance before the Feds took over, yes.

Now, they're kind of up against helicopters and a highly funded force.

Ranch hands vs Helicopters
My bet is on the helicopters.

They had 20 fucking years. It's hardly the government's fault Bundy, his family and his buddies are all fucking morons.

[Shie]

Why is this Bundy guy not in prison?

Bullies with guns are backing him.

Honorable men with bigger guns can front him.

[Boomhaueristan]

Maybe when they still had a chance before the Feds took over, yes.

Now, they're kind of up against helicopters and a highly funded force.

Ranch hands vs Helicopters
My bet is on the helicopters.

They had 20 fucking years. It's hardly the government's fault Bundy, his family and his buddies are all fucking morons.

Not disagreeing there.

All the farms I've been associated with grow their own feed, or graze on their own land.

I think paying the grazing feeds is a lot better then having to handle acres and acres of corn, all that extra work and effort to get your own feed.

[AiliailiA]

Here's some more context.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... nch-stand/

The simmering truce between the Bundys and the Bureau of Land Management comes after high-profile raids last year by armed federal agents on small-time gold miners in tiny Chicken, Alaska, and guitar makers at the Gibson Guitar facilities in Tennessee.

That doesn’t include more subtle threats, such as recent efforts by the Obama administration to raise grazing fees or pressure permit holders to transfer their water rights as a condition of renewal, said Ryan Yates, director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau.

All the article does is quote various right-wingers. I don't particularly object to that.

I will however point out that although the Washington Times uses the New York Times's font in its letterhead, it isn't the NYT.
Nor is it the Washington Post which is the US's oldest continuously published newspaper, being more than a century longer established than the WT.

That tricks people sometimes, so I point it out.

[Tekania]

Yes.

sauce mistuh? (I just want this for myself for later use)

I've posted it multiple times over this whole Bundy incident, but here are the rulings:

1998 ruling
April 2013 ruling
July 2013 ruling

Inside these give fairly extensive details of the particular notices and actions made by the BLM and Mr Bundy as well the the arguments made and rulings on those arguments by the courts.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

[
1. In fact, I do not agree with Bundy. He comes across as a dick, but I think the federal government is coming across as an ass, and dicks have to fuck asses so that asses don't shit all over the place.
If you know what I mean.

The Bundys may have won the first round, but you can be sure that the government is gonna make them bend over.

2. What do you think this major operation and the stand-off that followed cost them? If this was about their fees, they would have given up the moment it became too much.

As long as the Bundys continue to be stubborn Jack assess about it, they'll lose alot more than their ranch. When that happens, don't say they didn't warn them.

No - speaking as a jurist, I know that governments, international organisations and large businesses do invest time and effort into legal cases that they're going to end up making a major loss on, just to establish precedents on which to act in the future. These battles over ownership happen all the time, and they're just avenues for sides to promote their authority or attack the authority of others. If they had won now, they would have sent a signal that the bureaus of the federal government are not to be trifled with, discouraging anyone thinking of opposing them in the future - and they know this well.

Try all you might on how you view the government. The fact still remains that the contested land belongs to the federal government, it has long before the Bundys first settled and still remains its property today. If they wanna charge a ridiculous rate, or set up solar plants, so be it, it's their property, not the Bundy's. Sad day for them.

[Greed and Death]

Bundy has issued warrants for the arrest and execution of the BLM agents responsible.
Posted on storm front.

[Regnum Dominae]

Bundy has issued warrants for the arrest and execution of the BLM agents responsible.
Posted on storm front.

what

[Dyakovo]

Bundy has issued warrants for the arrest and execution of the BLM agents responsible.
Posted on storm front.

what

It's Greedles. You can probably ignore what he posted as simply a pitiful attempt at trolling.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Though, mind you I'm not big on state rights, I think the Federal Government can just keep the land.

"State rights" are bunk anyway (the Bill of Rights only grants them limited powers), and almost always when invoked have been done so to take rights from the people within.

That varies. States' rights were invoked by both sides of the debate about DOMA.

[Greed and Death]

what

It's Greedles. You can probably ignore what he posted as simply a pitiful attempt at trolling.

Remember what happened with Russia and the Ukraine.

[Shie]

It's Greedles. You can probably ignore what he posted as simply a pitiful attempt at trolling.

Remember what happened with Russia and the Ukraine.

What?

[Greed and Death]

Remember what happened with Russia and the Ukraine.

What?

Everyone said I was trolling when I said Russia is going to invade the Ukraine after the protest ousted the president.

Then as usual reality confirmed my prediction.

[Nazi Flower Power]

It was completely inappropriate.

That's not the point, though. This wasn't about turtles or cattle. This was about the reach of the federal government - how far can they go, how much can they regulate and how much do people have to take from them? Even though he's been avoiding the debate so far, you can bet that Obama knows what's going on and has been thinking about it. Should the federal government have been able to just trample over this ranch, then it would have been a very minor victory for the wildlife but a very major symbolic victory for any politician thinking of giving the federal government more funding, more power and more legal rights.

It would not be a major victory if people had just let the federal government do its thing. In fact it wouldn't even have been news.

[Nazi Flower Power]

If his version of the law was how it worked, then the land probably would belong to some Native Americans.

Who would actually have it?

If I'm not mistaken, there aren't very many to keep it...

I'm sure someone could figure out what tribe it belonged to if they did a bit of research. Most tribes still have a few remaining descendants.

[Roski]

Who would actually have it?

If I'm not mistaken, there aren't very many to keep it...

I'm sure someone could figure out what tribe it belonged to if they did a bit of research. Most tribes still have a few remaining descendants.

Maybe.

Possibly.

Most likely not.

Thanks Custer.

[Dyakovo]

I'm sure someone could figure out what tribe it belonged to if they did a bit of research. Most tribes still have a few remaining descendants.

Maybe.

Possibly.

Most likely not.

Thanks Custer.

More than just "possible"...

[New Grestin]

Now, here's why that's wrong:

For one, Cows have been bred for centuries to be slaughtered and eaten, it's literally all we use them for now. Second, Humans are superior to cattle in a variety of ways, you ever sat down and had a little chat with a cow about it's feelings? No, because what it thinks is irrelevant, because it's a bloody cow. The fact stands that humans have evolved more than cows, to the point that we can do whatever we want with them and it won't really matter, because they're cows, and they can't do anything about it.

And on the economic side? It's two cows and a single group of ranchers, contrary to what the OP seems to believe. This isn't exactly a cow holocaust we're talking about. It was two bulls, shot and buried in the desert by the government, nothing more, and nothing less.

Who said this? Can you please provide the actual statement I said that it was a "cow holocaust"

I never said that anyone mentioned a cow holocaust, I simply mused that people were construing it as such.

It was two bulls in the desert, shot and buried for god knows what reason. My point was that we had no moral obligation to the cattle, and could do as we pleased with them because we're a superior species. The other point being that this really wasn't that big of an issue.

[Nazi Flower Power]

The context is he was talking about Bundy and his criminal buddies preventing the BLM from doing their fucking job.

Now, now, no need to get angry. He said, though, "we can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it."
He - a man who lives and works thousands of miles from that ranch and is a very important national politician - has politicized this issue to highlight that his view, and the view of the federal government, is that the people should obey the law regardless of what the law is and how it came to exist. Believe me, a major national politician doesn't just comment randomly on local issues.

He lives and works in DC, but he is from Nevada. It's not random to comment on something that is going on in his own state.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Hopefully the literal Nazi bothered to read the thread to learn how sources work.

Nazi? Who's a Nazi?

I am!

[Jumalariik]

Now, here's why that's wrong:

For one, Cows have been bred for centuries to be slaughtered and eaten, it's literally all we use them for now. Second, Humans are superior to cattle in a variety of ways, you ever sat down and had a little chat with a cow about it's feelings? No, because what it thinks is irrelevant, because it's a bloody cow. The fact stands that humans have evolved more than cows, to the point that we can do whatever we want with them and it won't really matter, because they're cows, and they can't do anything about it.

And on the economic side? It's two cows and a single group of ranchers, contrary to what the OP seems to believe. This isn't exactly a cow holocaust we're talking about. It was two bulls, shot and buried in the desert by the government, nothing more, and nothing less.

Who said this? Can you please provide the actual statement I said that it was a "cow holocaust"

Gestin, You gave no logical explanation of why cows have no rights. By your logic, it would be ok to cut the leg of a cow, then not treat it, then cut another, etc, until it's dead.
Either way, the government essentially took the guy's "property," making it harder to feed himself and his family.