Is the American constitution valid?

[Jumalariik]

Is the American constitution valid?
I say no, wether or not the ideas in it are or not is not relevant. The aim of the document is likely to show how American society should be run, however looking at history, there have been too many exceptions to this rule for it to be true. The slaves did not get their rights from the bill of rights, neither did the natives, neither did the anarchists, neither did the communists. This means that it has little to no power to regulate society or government, making it a useless piece of hemp paper.

[Llamalandia]

Is the American constitution valid?
I say no, wether or not the ideas in it are or not is not relevant. The aim of the document is likely to show how American society should be run, however looking at history, there have been too many exceptions to this rule for it to be true. The slaves did not get their rights from the bill of rights, neither did the natives, neither did the anarchists, neither did the communists. This means that it has little to no power to regulate society or government, making it a useless piece of hemp paper.

Umm rights don't come from the constitution, they come from natural law. The Constitution is merely a recognition of said rights. If anything what you would be arguing is that the US govt was/is unconstitutional/unjust/illegitimate for denying to recognize and refrain from infringing upon the free speech rights (as but one example) of anarchists communists etc. But no the constitution itself is most definitely valid, at least in a legal sense (though some would debate its creation as being sketchy as originally it started as a plan to amend the articles of Confederation and not outright replace them). Also the nice thing about it is it can be changed via amendment

[Holochrome]

I don't know whether to or to
The damn thing was made to protect from government abuse. Many people say its invalid, but they're only considering the second ammendment.

And even then, you probably don't care about what's best for America.

[Jumalariik]

I don't know whether to or to
The damn thing was made to protect from government abuse. Many people say its invalid, but they're only considering the second ammendment.

When has the constitution prevented genocide in the country, human rights violations or slavery? These are three things that the US has done under the constitution, if it still does these things, it has no viable power.

[Murkwood]

The Magna Carta had been broken many times, doesn't mean it's invalid.

[Holochrome]

I don't know whether to or to
The damn thing was made to protect from government abuse. Many people say its invalid, but they're only considering the second ammendment.

When has the constitution prevented genocide in the country, human rights violations or slavery? These are three things that the US has done under the constitution, if it still does these things, it has no viable power.

Have you even ever read the constitution? Plus, what are ammendments for?

[Jumalariik]

The Magna Carta had been broken many times, doesn't mean it's invalid.

That would make it invalid because that would mean that it is not absolute law for the government, which is what makes laws.

[Jumalariik]

When has the constitution prevented genocide in the country, human rights violations or slavery? These are three things that the US has done under the constitution, if it still does these things, it has no viable power.

Have you even ever read the constitution?

Not all, in fact very little of it, but it still does guarantee basic freedoms like speech and the right to assemble, these rights have been taken away, as has freedom of religion multiple times. Amendments only work to continue the earlier principle. (you can't make an amendment that would make the whole constitution no longer law) No amendments would reverse the Palmer raids or McCarthyism.

[Boompa]

Ok, let's face it. The US Constitution is the greatest political document ever created. Considering that it is the oldest constitution still in effect and also that it basically invented modern democracy...

[Murkwood]

The Magna Carta had been broken many times, doesn't mean it's invalid.

That would make it invalid because that would mean that it is not absolute law for the government, which is what makes laws.

But in the examples you cited, it actually was in the constitution that, for example, blacks were 3/5 persons. They did follow it, until time came to change it.

[Tatooene]

I don't know whether to or to
The damn thing was made to protect from government abuse. Many people say its invalid, but they're only considering the second ammendment.

When has the constitution prevented genocide in the country, human rights violations or slavery? These are three things that the US has done under the constitution, if it still does these things, it has no viable power.

So you're proposing that we remove a document that attempts and sometimes fails to prevent these things in favor of... one big free for all in which nothing prevents these things? I fail to see the logic here.

[Holochrome]

Have you even ever read the constitution?

Not all, in fact very little of it, but it still does guarantee basic freedoms like speech and the right to assemble, these rights have been taken away, as has freedom of religion multiple times.

Right there. You don't know what you're talking about. And it doesn't guarantee free speech. Libel/slander/clear and present danger. And when has the state ever gotten involved in religion?

[Jumalariik]

That would make it invalid because that would mean that it is not absolute law for the government, which is what makes laws.

But in the examples you cited, it actually was in the constitution that, for example, blacks were 3/5 persons. They did follow it, until time came to change it.

The fact alone that it would make blacks 3/5ths of a person invalidates it.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Ok, let's face it. The US Constitution is the greatest political document ever created. Considering that it is the oldest constitution still in effect and also that it basically invented modern democracy...

No to the first.

[Holochrome]

But in the examples you cited, it actually was in the constitution that, for example, blacks were 3/5 persons. They did follow it, until time came to change it.

The fact alone that it would make blacks 3/5ths of a person invalidates it.

But people still adhered by it.

[Jumalariik]

Not all, in fact very little of it, but it still does guarantee basic freedoms like speech and the right to assemble, these rights have been taken away, as has freedom of religion multiple times.

Right there. You don't know what you're talking about. And it doesn't guarantee free speech. Libel/slander/clear and present danger. And when has the state ever gotten involved in religion?

Many contentious objectors refused to fight because of religion like the Mennonites, they were imprisoned for this, which would go against freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Funston

[Tatooene]

But in the examples you cited, it actually was in the constitution that, for example, blacks were 3/5 persons. They did follow it, until time came to change it.

The fact alone that it would make blacks 3/5ths of a person invalidates it.

It also doesn't make any provision for my right to eat lasagna, which is an equally good reason for its invalidity.

[Jumalariik]

The fact alone that it would make blacks 3/5ths of a person invalidates it.

It also doesn't make any provision for my right to eat lasagna, which is an equally good reason for its invalidity.

If it restricted a human right, it would invalidate it's claiming to support human rights.

[Zenoch]

Right there. You don't know what you're talking about. And it doesn't guarantee free speech. Libel/slander/clear and present danger. And when has the state ever gotten involved in religion?

Many contentious objectors refused to fight because of religion like the Mennonites, they were imprisoned for this, which would go against freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Funston

But there is a social contract between the people and the government. The government protects the people in return for the people doing things for the government, like paying taxes or even being drafted. If they want to be pacifist, they cannot expect protection from a government at war.

[Holochrome]

Right there. You don't know what you're talking about. And it doesn't guarantee free speech. Libel/slander/clear and present danger. And when has the state ever gotten involved in religion?

Many contentious objectors refused to fight because of religion like the Mennonites, they were imprisoned for this, which would go against freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Funston

Because its your DUTY as a citizen to serve when called upon. Not doing so is just like me not paying my taxes.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Is the American constitution valid?

Yep. That was easy.

[Tatooene]

It also doesn't make any provision for my right to eat lasagna, which is an equally good reason for its invalidity.

If it restricted a human right, it would invalidate it's claiming to support human rights.

It isn't a perfect document, I'l admit that, but that's the beauty of it. It's a work in progress. It can be edited should the need arise (Thus why Slavery is now illegal)

[Jumalariik]

Many contentious objectors refused to fight because of religion like the Mennonites, they were imprisoned for this, which would go against freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Funston

But there is a social contract between the people and the government. The government protects the people in return for the people doing things for the government, like paying taxes or even being drafted. If they want to be pacifist, they cannot expect protection from a government at war.

WW1 did not protect Americans. No fighting occurred on US soil. The Mennonites likely would have done better without the US government.

[Holochrome]

But there is a social contract between the people and the government. The government protects the people in return for the people doing things for the government, like paying taxes or even being drafted. If they want to be pacifist, they cannot expect protection from a government at war.

WW1 did not protect Americans. No fighting occurred on US soil. The Mennonites likely would have done better without the US government.

But it is still their duty. I don't get government benefits but I pay anyways.

[Zenoch]

But there is a social contract between the people and the government. The government protects the people in return for the people doing things for the government, like paying taxes or even being drafted. If they want to be pacifist, they cannot expect protection from a government at war.

WW1 did not protect Americans. No fighting occurred on US soil. The Mennonites likely would have done better without the US government.

If you think the only reason to go to war is to protect yourself, you need to check your morals.