The Dating thread

[Ceannairceach]

True, but sadly, the mantis shrimp does not have allies; only prey, future prey, and dinner.

Oh, mantis shrimp is like my ex. A one track mind creature. Hohoho!

Dating a sloth, now that's the life.

Being a sloth is also a pretty good deal.

[Divair2]

True, but sadly, the mantis shrimp does not have allies; only prey, future prey, and dinner.

we're predators in the sack

So what you're saying is that you're dominant.

[Tahar Joblis]

Bullshit. Knock off the story-telling. The narrative that saying "friendzone" situations are male entitlement situations is a cultural myth that has gained some recent popularity, but it's not a terribly accurate myth.

The "friend zone" situation happens to both men and women; and describes a range of situations from the mutually awkward to the deviously manipulative. Stop belittling the experiences of others because of your mythology and ideology.

No, it isn't always a cultural myth. Some men do believe they're entitled to having every girl they like to say yes to them and get pissed and resentful when the woman doesn't see them as dating material, and friend-zones them.

Ditto with some women. Stop saying it's a myth.

Some men. Only some men. Not all men; not even most men. It's on the whole rare (and the sense of entitlement isn't exclusively, or even characteristically, male). Look again at what I replied to:

The 'zone' model of relationships is a cultural myth that amounts to a straight male entitlement complex.

That statement? Inaccurate on several counts.

• First, the "zone model" isn't a myth; it's just a word used to describe a range of situations.
• Second, someone using that word does not mean they are a straight male or have an entitlement complex.
• Third, the situation to which the word is applied does not necessarily (and, in fact, probably is not) a situation in which there is a straight male who thinks he is entitled to sex.

More often, it's someone with low self-esteem who's in an unhappy situation. Guys who feel entitled, as a general rule, don't feel the need to be shy about their feelings. As a rule, you don't feel entitled to sex unless you've been trained to expect sex on demand, and the average man (much less the unhappy guys who complain about their situations) has had ample opportunity to accustom himself to being rejected. It's a rare man who doesn't, or whose inflated sense of self-worth is so robust as to defy his own experiences.

The "entitled male" narrative is a severely inappropriate generalization that is correct a relatively small fraction of the times which it is applied; which now routinely happens any time anybody mentions any sort of situation in which a man is in a "friend zone." Which includes situations in which the "zonee" is acting in bad faith, situations in which the "zoner" is acting in bad faith, situations where both are, and situations where neither are.

Now, that's the general case related to Meryuma's statement. What did Meryuma reply to with this grand and sweeping generalization?

I rec ently got friendzoned hard.

No matter.There are more fish in the sea and her friends are cute.

Someone whose response to being friendzoned was, by all appearances, shrugging and moving on.

I don't think that sounds particularly like a "straight male entitlement complex."

[Altito Asmoro]

Is there any different, if you dating a girl 2 years younger than you? I mean, any diferent with dating with a girl of a same age as you?

[Ceannairceach]

Is there any different, if you dating a girl 2 years younger than you? I mean, any diferent with dating with a girl of a same age as you?

It depends. Two years in high school? Totally different from two years in, say, college or beyond. I general, the older you get, the less the age gap matters.

[Socialist Tera]

One of my friends say that when I am around women I like I am too submissive and girls do not like submissive men, is that true?

[Ceannairceach]

One of my friends say that when I am around women I like I am too submissive and girls do not like submissive men, is that true?

*Shrug* Different women are different. Some people I've been with liked the shy-and-submissive thing. Others, preferred the man to have the more dominant role. And even more wanted an equal balance. But confidence is important no matter what the balance is.

[The Blaatschapen]

One of my friends say that when I am around women I like I am too submissive and girls do not like submissive men, is that true?

Some girls do not like submissive men. Some girls do like them. Their tastes vary as much as there are women in the world.

[Ethel mermania]

One of my friends say that when I am around women I like I am too submissive and girls do not like submissive men, is that true?

Some girls do not like submissive men. Some girls do like them. Their tastes vary as much as there are women in the world.

and some men, well you know....

[The Blaatschapen]

Some girls do not like submissive men. Some girls do like them. Their tastes vary as much as there are women in the world.

and some men, well you know....

Yeah, I do not date men...

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

"Womyn" makes you sound like a radical feminist. "Wimmin" is the proper hick spelling.

They must hate Romance languages for the generic he, even more so people who adopt it in English.

[Ethel mermania]

and some men, well you know....

Yeah, I do not date men...

the photographic evidnece says otherwise.

btw you look great for your age.

[The Blaatschapen]

Yeah, I do not date men...

the photographic evidnece says otherwise.

btw you look great for your age.

There are millions of sheep.

That's not me.

[Czechanada]

So the hot girl that I mentioned in my Burka thread agreed to hang out during the summer.

As Mr. Burns said: "Excellent! It's all falling into place."

[Meryuma]

This "zone" model of relationships is a cultural myth that amounts to a straight male entitlement complex.

I really fail to see how. All it does is point out that everybody has certain zones that they place people in, with regards to which interactions they are and are not willing to engage in with that person. I really fail to see how it equates to "I R STR8 MAN! I ENTITLED TO FUCK ANY WIMMIN!"

The notion that if you're friends with an attractive woman and she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, one of you has necessarily made a mistake.

This "zone" model of relationships is a cultural myth that amounts to a straight male entitlement complex.

Bullshit. Knock off the story-telling. The narrative that saying "friendzone" situations are male entitlement situations is a cultural myth that has gained some recent popularity, but it's not a terribly accurate myth.

The "friend zone" situation happens to both men and women; and describes a range of situations from the mutually awkward to the deviously manipulative. Stop belittling the experiences of others because of your mythology and ideology.

I'm not talking about the situation of feeling misled by platonically interested friends. I'm talking about the cultural baggage specifically around the phrase "friend zone" and its implications. I've had many crushes on straight or really closeted guys so don't try and paint me as being unsympathetic or dismissve of people in awkward/harsh romantic situations with friends in general.

Someone whose response to being friendzoned was, by all appearances, shrugging and moving on.

I don't think that sounds particularly like a "straight male entitlement complex."

I kinda thought "and her friends are cute" gave off the vibe of "if I befriend enough women, one of them will associate it with sex". Maybe I'm reading too much into it though.

That statement? Inaccurate on several counts.

• First, the "zone model" isn't a myth; it's just a word used to describe a range of situations.
• Second, someone using that word does not mean they are a straight male or have an entitlement complex.
• Third, the situation to which the word is applied does not necessarily (and, in fact, probably is not) a situation in which there is a straight male who thinks he is entitled to sex.

The term "friendzone" pretty obviously implies that if a girl you're friends with doesn't want you she's just not letting you into her further "zone", i.e. there is an expected progression of friendship to relationship with all female friends. I have heard it used by people who aren't straight males but it's very uncommon.

[Tahar Joblis]

The notion that if you're friends with an attractive woman and she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you and you want to be in a relationship with her, one of you has necessarily made a mistake is probably going to be sad about it.

FTFY. (Corrected text in red.)

I'm not talking about the situation of feeling misled by platonically interested friends.

That is a situation in which the phrase "friend zone" is used, and you were making a generalization, ergo you were talking about that situation.

I'm talking about the cultural baggage specifically around the phrase "friend zone" and its implications.

Incorrectly so.

I've had many crushes on straight or really closeted guys so don't try and paint me as being unsympathetic or dismissve of people in awkward/harsh romantic situations with friends in general.

No, you've just bought into an ideological line of bullshit surrounding a term that was all hot and new and stuff in the 90s and was quite widely used on the internet in the 00s. The particular line of ideological bullshit you bought into caught on this decade.

It became quite suddenly fashionable to say that "friend zone" or "nice guy" meant "entitlement complex," and sweep what really accounted for most of the usage of the term under the rug.

You yourself have been in the friend zone. I have had plenty of people in my friend zone. I courteously refrain from abusing that position of power. It's an apt descriptive term, and the ideological baggage associated with the term principally comes from those who constructed the oppositional narrative to the term.

I kinda thought "and her friends are cute" gave off the vibe of "if I befriend enough women, one of them will associate it with sex". Maybe I'm reading too much into it though.

I don't think it's particularly problematic to recognize that having a genuine friend of the opposite sex can be instrumentally useful. What the phrase says to me is that he's not abandoning the original friendship just because it's not turning into a romance, which is exactly contrary to the narrative of treating women strictly as sexual objects.

The term "friendzone" pretty obviously implies that if a girl you're friends with doesn't want you she's just not letting you into her further "zone", i.e. there is an expected progression of friendship to relationship with all female friends.

You have just completely failed to describe the classification most people are making when they say "friend zone." The idea behind "friend zone" isn't that there are concentric zones. Don't think of a bull's eye; think of a pie chart with wedges going out. There's the "friend" wedge, which is non-sexual; and what we might call the "fuck" wedge, which is sexual.

The archetypical "friend zone" complaint is this: She's a beautiful girl, who's always dating someone else; he's her loyal best male friend who picks up the pieces every time something in her life goes wrong or she gets her heart broken again. He's her shoulder to cry on, her confidante, and deeply in love with her, but she only sees him as a brother, not a lover.

You might look up "ladder theory." It's a sexist model of human behavior, but it is a model that is sometimes associated with discussion of "friend zones." (In particular, "ladder theory" boils down to the assertion that women, and only women, put members of the opposite sex in a "friend zone.") You can also see the disjoint nature of the formulation in the Friends quote that may very well be the origin of the modern use of "friend zone," if you look at it carefully.

I have heard it used by people who aren't straight males but it's very uncommon.

It is less common, partly because of the ideological origins of the reactionary attack on the term "friend zone," partly because of the sort of stereotypes that are still in circulation about male [hyper]sexuality, and partly because of the combination of age dynamics in dating and the gap between "male culture" and "female culture" among the young.

I have a surplus of theories to explain the usage patterns, in other words. Not entirely sure what's correct, but I feel like I used to hear it from women much more often ten years ago than now.

[Arkinesia]

Bullshit. Knock off the story-telling. The narrative that saying "friendzone" situations are male entitlement situations is a cultural myth that has gained some recent popularity, but it's not a terribly accurate myth.

The "friend zone" situation happens to both men and women; and describes a range of situations from the mutually awkward to the deviously manipulative. Stop belittling the experiences of others because of your mythology and ideology.

No, it isn't always a cultural myth. Some men do believe they're entitled to having every girl they like to say yes to them and get pissed and resentful when the woman doesn't see them as dating material, and friend-zones them.

Ditto with some women. Stop saying it's a myth.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately be explained by (gullibility or) stupidity.

[Grenartia]

I really fail to see how. All it does is point out that everybody has certain zones that they place people in, with regards to which interactions they are and are not willing to engage in with that person. I really fail to see how it equates to "I R STR8 MAN! I ENTITLED TO FUCK ANY WIMMIN!"

The notion that if you're friends with an attractive woman and she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, one of you has necessarily made a mistake.

Which isn't inherent to the idea.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

I'm aware of a more innocent usage of the term "friend zone" (in fact, this was the first usage I learned), but the term has been poisoned so thoroughly by loveshies, redpillers, and similar whackjobs as to be unsalvageable. I highly discourage using it in mixed company IRL.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

No, it isn't always a cultural myth. Some men do believe they're entitled to having every girl they like to say yes to them and get pissed and resentful when the woman doesn't see them as dating material, and friend-zones them.

Ditto with some women. Stop saying it's a myth.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately be explained by (gullibility or) stupidity.

Indulge me here, please. It's been a long day but I'm not certain if you're agreeing with me or if you're taking a jab at what I said. So, please, if you could explain, I'd appreciate it.

[Mike the Progressive]

the photographic evidnece says otherwise.

btw you look great for your age.

There are millions of sheep.

Well they all do look alike.

[Arkinesia]

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately be explained by (gullibility or) stupidity.

Indulge me here, please. It's been a long day but I'm not certain if you're agreeing with me or if you're taking a jab at what I said. So, please, if you could explain, I'd appreciate it.

It is support for your statement and a jab at the post you were quoting.

[Grenartia]

I'm aware of a more innocent usage of the term "friend zone" (in fact, this was the first usage I learned), but the term has been poisoned so thoroughly by loveshies, redpillers, and similar whackjobs as to be unsalvageable. I highly discourage using it in mixed company IRL.

I fail to see how it can't be salvaged.

[Altito Asmoro]

Is there any different, if you dating a girl 2 years younger than you? I mean, any diferent with dating with a girl of a same age as you?

It depends. Two years in high school? Totally different from two years in, say, college or beyond. I general, the older you get, the less the age gap matters.

I know, it's very different. If you are 18 and your girl is 16, it's matters. On the other hand, if you are 22, and the girl is 20, it's not really.

[Revolutionarily]

I'm getting played and kind of enjoy it:)