Is the feminist movement useless in developed countries?

[Des-Bal]

1. no it fucking doesn't. when people say minority it's understood they are referring to social structures, independent of actual numbers. please see my post again for more examples of minorities that somehow managed to be numerically larger??? or invent a new word.
2. yep

No it fucking isn't. When someone says minority it means they are numerically inferior in relation to another group or less than half of the total population. You are using the word incorrectly, being a minority group says nothing about social standing or political influence. The point you should be taking from your examples is that you're using the word minority incorrectly.

[United Nationals]

oh jesus christ.
there are more women than men in the united states.
and worldwide i believe(might be wrong)
women arent a minority.

[Terra Sector Union]

My ancestry traces from multiple continents. The ones that came to the US came legally. And instead of begging for welfare, they lifted themselves from poverty they faced back home and became successful. And today, it is up to me to do the same and not fall because of stupidity and laziness.

I'm not entirely sure I buy that at all. I'm not sure you understand how AWFUL minorities have had it in this country. How far back are we talking?

Early 1900's is when someone I was related to came to the US. But anyways, I'm sick and tired how minorities like me need to feel like their such a victim of the system when it's all on them. And you question if I do not understand how awful minorities have had it in this country? I am one.

[Ostroeuropa]

Essentially, the problem with Feminism is that the feminist narrative is being used to oppress working class males.
It has become a second patriarchy in that respect, though more benign than the first incarnation.

The overreach caused by some of the more insane feminists occasionally crosses into trying to oppress middle class males too. When that happens, we see a shitstorm of backlash.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Feminism is going no where.
They argue about wage inequality. which is because men go into more high paying jobs or careers than women do. not because the majority of employers are male sexist pigs but because as i said men choose to go into higher paying fields

then there's the rape argument
if i had to guess i would have to say that less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone.
so going after all males for something that one percent of the entire male population does is completely idiotic.

and last but not least, the political standpoint.

feminists say that america is sexist because we haven't had an female president. well lets look at the numbers here
70.4 million -- The number of women who cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men.

almost 10 million more females voted in the 2008 election than males. if females wanted a female candidate to run the numbers here alone would guarantee the victory of a female. assuming that the majority of females vote for the female candidate.

That's quite an easy straw man (or straw woman in this case to pull down though).

Firstly however I would ask you if you could kindly back up the following claims with evidence however:

"men choose to go into higher paying fields"
"less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone"

Then comes the statement: "if i had to guess i would have to say that less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone.
so going after all males for something that one percent of the entire male population does is completely idiotic"

Who is going after all males and how are they doing this?

I eagerly await your response.

[Terra Sector Union]

Really? I'd like a source for that, please.

The Young Turks
Outside the Beltway

Please don't source TYT.

[Alyakia]

1. no it fucking doesn't. when people say minority it's understood they are referring to social structures, independent of actual numbers. please see my post again for more examples of minorities that somehow managed to be numerically larger??? or invent a new word.
2. yep

No it fucking isn't. When someone says minority it means they are numerically inferior in relation to another group or less than half of the total population. You are using the word incorrectly, being a minority group says nothing about social standing or political influence. The point you should be taking from your examples is that you're using the word minority incorrectly.

actually, yes it does. in fact, that is exactly what it means. i am going to google "minority group" for you.

A minority group is a sociological category within a demographic. Rather than a relational "social group", as the term would indicate, the term refers to a category that is differentiated and defined by the social majority, that is, those who hold the majority of positions of social power in a society. The differentiation can be based on one or more observable human characteristics, including, for example, ethnicity, race, gender, wealth, health or sexual orientation. Usage of the term is applied to various situations and civilizations within history, despite its popular mis-association with a numerical, statistical minority. In the social sciences, the term "minority" is used to refer to categories of persons who hold few positions of social power.

in fact i have bolded a special part, just for you.

[Magna Libero]

1. When you're calling one group a minority? Yes it fucking does.
2. Gender Apartheid is the most absurdly stupid things I've heard all day.

1. no it fucking doesn't. when people say minority it's understood they are referring to social structures, independent of actual numbers. please see my post again for more examples of minorities that somehow managed to be numerically larger??? or invent a new word.
2. yep

I've been clear in the past that I think the sane feminists should just drop the title and move on.
You aren't going to convince the insane ones to stop, and they ARE damaging the cause.

i thought the proper response to words was just to keep using them no matter what?

Logically, wouldn't majority be a more proper word than minority? Gee, why hasn't anyone thought about this before?

[Quackquackhonk]

Essentially, the problem with Feminism is that the feminist narrative is being used to oppress working class males...

is something someone completely disconnected from reality would argue.

[Des-Bal]

oh jesus christ.
there are more women than men in the united states.
and worldwide i believe(might be wrong)
women arent a minority.

Worldwide it's about 51-49 in favor of men but there are almost always more women than men in developed countries. Haven't done much research but if I had to guess I'd say it has to do with the age and mortality rate associated with pregnancy.

[Terra Sector Union]

Essentially, the problem with Feminism is that the feminist narrative is being used to oppress working class males...

is something someone completely disconnected from reality would argue.

Not really. It's reverse discrimination. One of these days, the tables will turn.

[Mkuki]

The Young Turks
Outside the Beltway

Please don't source TYT.

Why not? They specifically cite a study by the DoJ.

[United Nationals]

Feminism is going no where.
They argue about wage inequality. which is because men go into more high paying jobs or careers than women do. not because the majority of employers are male sexist pigs but because as i said men choose to go into higher paying fields

then there's the rape argument
if i had to guess i would have to say that less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone.
so going after all males for something that one percent of the entire male population does is completely idiotic.

and last but not least, the political standpoint.

feminists say that america is sexist because we haven't had an female president. well lets look at the numbers here
70.4 million -- The number of women who cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men.

almost 10 million more females voted in the 2008 election than males. if females wanted a female candidate to run the numbers here alone would guarantee the victory of a female. assuming that the majority of females vote for the female candidate.

That's quite an easy straw man (or straw woman in this case to pull down though).

Firstly however I would ask you if you could kindly back up the following claims with evidence however:

"men choose to go into higher paying fields"
"less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone"

Then comes the statement: "if i had to guess i would have to say that less than one percent of the male population in america has raped anyone.
so going after all males for something that one percent of the entire male population does is completely idiotic"

Who is going after all males and how are they doing this?

I eagerly await your response.

Feminists. and this is half my guess and half researched. if you want me to go and prove it to you i gladly will.

[Ostroeuropa]

Essentially, the problem with Feminism is that the feminist narrative is being used to oppress working class males...

is something someone completely disconnected from reality would argue.

Nice counter argument. Don't you usually argue that you should check your privilege?

[Terra Sector Union]

Please don't source TYT.

Why not? They specifically cite a study by the DoJ.

Then source the study. TYT are too biased to use them a credible source. Sorry.

[Alyakia]

1. no it fucking doesn't. when people say minority it's understood they are referring to social structures, independent of actual numbers. please see my post again for more examples of minorities that somehow managed to be numerically larger??? or invent a new word.
2. yep



i thought the proper response to words was just to keep using them no matter what?

Logically, wouldn't majority be a more proper word than minority? Gee, why hasn't anyone thought about this before?

"Not limited to mathematical minority: example, Blacks in South Africa, Blacks in Mississippi and South Carolina in the 1920's "

i dunno. i am glad that some posters are taking it upon themselves to ask these hard hitting questions that political correctness hates.

[Quackquackhonk]

is something someone completely disconnected from reality would argue.

It's reverse discrimination.

nonsensical term.

[United Nationals]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sex_r ... tion_2.png

[Ostroeuropa]

Logically, wouldn't majority be a more proper word than minority? Gee, why hasn't anyone thought about this before?

"Not limited to mathematical minority: example, Blacks in South Africa, Blacks in Mississippi and South Carolina in the 1920's "

i dunno. i am glad that some posters are taking it upon themselves to ask these hard hitting questions that political correctness hates.

Would you count working class males as a minority, and if so, why have their been no legislative efforts toward making them better off.

[The Rich Port]

I'm not entirely sure I buy that at all. I'm not sure you understand how AWFUL minorities have had it in this country. How far back are we talking?

Early 1900's is when someone I was related to came to the US. But anyways, I'm sick and tired how minorities like me need to feel like their such a victim of the system when it's all on them. And you question if I do not understand how awful minorities have had it in this country? I am one.

You have said many times all of this discrimination hasn't affected you, and that the only reasons it didn't work for others is because they're lazy and stupid.

I seriously, seriously doubt you're telling the truth... For more reasons than one... But that is beside the point.

Yes, all those lazy idiotic minorities who couldn't start a business after the Civil War, right in the middle of the Yellow Scare. All those women too lazy to huff it to the polls after they'd just legalized them voting...

Read a history book, please.

[Diopolis]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

The issue with that is that Males are continuously informed that they cannot be raped by society, and dissuaded from reporting, while Women are encouraged to report by many parts of society (though also dissuaded by some parts.)
In addition, the question is poorly phrased, as perceptions of the nature of "force" change radically based on the understanding of the person asked.
It's entirely possible that many males simply do not consider coercion as a type of force (Coercion being the most frequent type of rape.), and/or do not consider being taken advantage of while drunk as a type of rape, and they havn't been regularly told otherwise by campaigning.
That is a part of rape culture. Absolutely. They need to be informed otherwise.

But what bugs the shit out of me about your type of feminism is that you never consider the whole picture.
A lot of men don't know what constitutes rape. This is your entire goddamn argument. This is your explanation for why women are raped more.
But when someone points out "If they don't know what constitutes rape, why the fuck do you believe their self-reporting figures?" you go immediately silent.

Maybe we would be better served by dropping the gendered nonsense and focusing on rape as a social issue instead of a gender one. By continuously reinforcing the notion that women do not rape, and only men rape, we completely undermine our efforts to get people to understand what rape actually is.
The problem is basically a wing of feminism that is out to demonize men at all costs, even if it results in worse lives for women.
In short, i'm betting the male report is far, far underrepresented.

[Terra Sector Union]

It's reverse discrimination.

nonsensical term.

You don't think it's possible a group can be discriminated because of the wrongdoings of the past?

[Alyakia]

"Not limited to mathematical minority: example, Blacks in South Africa, Blacks in Mississippi and South Carolina in the 1920's "

i dunno. i am glad that some posters are taking it upon themselves to ask these hard hitting questions that political correctness hates.

Would you count working class males as a minority, and if so, why have their been no legislative efforts toward making them better off.

hmm. perhaps we should form some sort of political party to represent these workings class males. the only question is, what shall we name it?

[Cilestis]

Considering how unequipped it is to deal with any real problems in developed countries, I can't imagine feminism in the sense I've encountered would be useful in countries where honor rapes and killings are still a thing. Just my two cents.

[Des-Bal]

actually, yes it does. in fact, that is exactly what it means. i am going to google "minority group" for you.

A minority group is a sociological category within a demographic. Rather than a relational "social group", as the term would indicate, the term refers to a category that is differentiated and defined by the social majority, that is, those who hold the majority of positions of social power in a society. The differentiation can be based on one or more observable human characteristics, including, for example, ethnicity, race, gender, wealth, health or sexual orientation. Usage of the term is applied to various situations and civilizations within history, despite its popular mis-association with a numerical, statistical minority. In the social sciences, the term "minority" is used to refer to categories of persons who hold few positions of social power.

in fact i have bolded a special part, just for you.

What you are describing is the misappropriation of a word. It's pretty fucking problematic because it ignores the problems real minority groups face.