Is the feminist movement useless in developed countries?

[Terra Sector Union]

I just never get why feminists, particularly young women think they are so oppressed by men like they cannot do anything. They can vote, run for political office, join the military, own property, etc. I think what they are after issues such as rape and negative social attitudes towards women but let's be honest, rape is gonna happen no matter what. Men are victims of it too. So when it comes to the feminist movement is developed countries, I really don't see a need for it. To me, women's rights have already been achieved and now the movement is really used by radicals that have their own agenda of female supremacy.

What do you think?

[Ostroeuropa]

There is a need for some wings to press the issue. Other wings are unfortunately fucking everything up and making people dislike feminists, to the point that it may be simpler to simply abandon the label and adopt another to press the issue.

There is still gender segregation and gender disparity in allocation of government resources. There is still sexism enshrined in law.
All of this must be altered.

[Vicious Debaters]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

<US> One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

Saying 'men are raped too' is illogical, because the number of male rapes totally pales compared to the number of times women are raped.


*Blanket statement*

By saying what I've said, I'm not trivializing male rape. What I'm doing is trying to explain why you should have programs like female-only passenger cars in the middle of the night. Male rape is terrible, but it's not commonplace enough to warrant male-only passenger cars, and that wouldn't necessarily prevent male rape anyhow.

And I'm having a rough day, and this isn't all worded perfectly. Sorry.

In conclusion, fuck this thread.

[Independent Canterbury]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

<US> One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

Saying 'men are raped too' is illogical, because the number of male rapes totally pales compared to the number of times women are raped.

[Aggicificicerous]

Why should people stop fighting discrimination when discrimination still exists?

[Ostroeuropa]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

The issue with that is that Males are continuously informed that they cannot be raped by society, and dissuaded from reporting, while Women are encouraged to report by many parts of society (though also dissuaded by some parts.)
In addition, the question is poorly phrased, as perceptions of the nature of "force" change radically based on the understanding of the person asked.
It's entirely possible that many males simply do not consider coercion as a type of force (Coercion being the most frequent type of rape.), and/or do not consider being taken advantage of while drunk as a type of rape, and they havn't been regularly told otherwise by campaigning.
That is a part of rape culture. Absolutely. They need to be informed otherwise.

But what bugs the shit out of me about your type of feminism is that you never consider the whole picture.
A lot of men don't know what constitutes rape. This is your entire goddamn argument. This is your explanation for why women are raped more.
But when someone points out "If they don't know what constitutes rape, why the fuck do you believe their self-reporting figures?" you go immediately silent.

Maybe we would be better served by dropping the gendered nonsense and focusing on rape as a social issue instead of a gender one. By continuously reinforcing the notion that women do not rape, and only men rape, we completely undermine our efforts to get people to understand what rape actually is.
The problem is basically a wing of feminism that is out to demonize men at all costs, even if it results in worse lives for women.
In short, i'm betting the male report is far, far underrepresented.

[Terra Sector Union]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

<US> One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

Saying 'men are raped too' is illogical, because the number of male rapes totally pales compared to the number of times women are raped.

So because women are raped more than men means that is doesn't mean much that men get raped by other men or predatory women? I'm sorry but this is disgusting that you implied that. Rape is a bad thing all around. Whether the victims are male or female. It does not matter who gets raped more.

[Vicious Debaters]

I kinda... like... getting constructive criticism on my points. I kinda... dislike... this.

My point might not have made sense because I'm very tired right now. But I'm reading it over and it seems to make sense.

I was saying that because the rate of women being raped in the developed world is so astronomical, it's a sign that women are not truly being treated the same as men in our culture, and that we need to work further to ensure equality. When the statistics paint such a grim picture, it's a sign of deep social-cultural issues.

[Ostroeuropa]

I kinda... like... getting constructive criticism on my points. I kinda... dislike... this.

My point might not have made sense because I'm very tired right now. But I'm reading it over and it seems to make sense.

I was saying that because the rate of women being raped in the developed world is so astronomical, it's a sign that women are not truly being treated the same as men in our culture, and that we need to work further to ensure equality. When the statistics paint such a grim picture, it's a sign of deep social-cultural issues.

That isn't what the statistics show if you don't just immediately take them at face value.
What they show is that people who do gender studies are, shockingly, not fucking qualified in statistics (An entirely different field) and don't know how to phrase a question, or how to interperate data.

It also shows that feminists have a dangerous attitude with regard to ingroup thinking. Just accepting studies these wings produce "because feminism." and it shows that women are getting the short end of the deal, so it must be right, right?

Like the absolutely fucking nonsensical statistic you people throw around about "Did you know 1/3 women suffer sexual OR Physical violence in their lifetime? This shows society is misogynist."

To which the MRAs, quite rightly, point out
"Only 1/3? You entitled fucks. For men it's like 100%."
Because none of you know how to phrase a question.

[Des-Bal]

The problem in developed countries is that feminists are as tenacious about bullshit as they are about rape and income disparities. It makes it hard to take them seriously.

[Ostroeuropa]

The problem in developed countries is that feminists are as tenacious about bullshit as they are about rape and income disparities. It makes it hard to take them seriously.

Like the
"Sexual OR physical violence" statistic they trot out and hope you don't notice the second part, and won't notice when they compare it to JUST sexual violence for males.

Or when they knowingly trot out the rape statistics based on things like "was penetrated" to show that females rarely rape, then get fucking furious if you show that with "Made to penetrate" included, it goes up to a 40/60 split.

There is a wing of feminism that thrives on bullshit, misinformation, and demonization of males.
And the other feminists just let them get away with it, because infighting is bad.
It's why I dropped the label. I cannot breathe the same air as those people.

[Page]

I have decided I am no longer going to have debates on the internet with people who say things like "women are equal and feminists hate men", "why is there black history month", "what is the point of gay pride", etc. I cannot take any of you seriously. Young Earth creationists are no more out of touch with reality than you people are.

[Des-Bal]

Like the
"Sexual OR physical violence" statistic they trot out and hope you don't notice the second part, and won't notice when they compare it to JUST sexual violence for males.

I was actually talking about opposing pornography, the word bossy, and other things that just don't matter when rape is still sort of a big deal.

[Ostroeuropa]

Like the
"Sexual OR physical violence" statistic they trot out and hope you don't notice the second part, and won't notice when they compare it to JUST sexual violence for males.

I was actually talking about opposing pornography, the word bossy, and other things that just don't matter when rape is still sort of a big deal.

Telling males how to sit on busses, proposing we ban urinals, etc.
Swedish Feminism yay.

[Des-Bal]

I have decided I am no longer going to have debates on the internet with people who say things like "women are equal and feminists hate men", "why is there black history month", "what is the point of gay pride", etc. I cannot take any of you seriously. Young Earth creationists are no more out of touch with reality than you people are.

Women and men are largely equal in the western world, the idea of black history manufactures a separation between black history and real history, and gay pride is largely a celebration of stereotypes. If you aren't prepared to discuss issues in a mature fashion I promise you the conversation won't lose much from your absence.

[European Socialist Republic]

I just never get why feminists, particularly young women think they are so oppressed by men like they cannot do anything. They can vote, run for political office, join the military, own property, etc. I think what they are after issues such as rape and negative social attitudes towards women but let's be honest, rape is gonna happen no matter what. Men are victims of it too. So when it comes to the feminist movement is developed countries, I really don't see a need for it. To me, women's rights have already been achieved and now the movement is really used by radicals that have their own agenda of female supremacy.

What do you think?

It's currently better than it used to be, but there's still sexism in developed countries.

So no, I don't think they're useless.

[The Scientific States]

I just never get why feminists, particularly young women think they are so oppressed by men like they cannot do anything. They can vote, run for political office, join the military, own property, etc. I think what they are after issues such as rape and negative social attitudes towards women but let's be honest, rape is gonna happen no matter what. Men are victims of it too. So when it comes to the feminist movement is developed countries, I really don't see a need for it. To me, women's rights have already been achieved and now the movement is really used by radicals that have their own agenda of female supremacy.

What do you think?

There's a difference between feminism and radical feminism.

[Charellia]

While women in the developed countries have full legal rights, they are still oppressed in subtler ways, which are easier to ignore, especially for men. As a man I don't see half of it, but I talk to women in the feminist movement and hear about the kind of stuff they have to put up with from men. If that were happening to me, I would certainly support a political movement trying to put a stop to it. So yes, feminism is still relevant.

[Vicious Debaters]

I don't even... get... this.

I guess this is because there's some really bitchy feminists? I know, I've seen them. They're bitchy. Doesn't mean feminism is all wrong.

Denying that the female rape problem is worse than the male rape problem makes no sense, both statistically and logically. I'm not talking about emasculating men, I'm talking about real feminism. Such as providing women's transit to women who need to go home from a frat party but don't feel safe. Such as providing special commuter cars on the subway in the middle of the night for women and other 'at-risk' youth.

I don't support emasculation (I'm a man, and I don't want to be emasculated), I support equality.

Feminism isn't just about women's rights, it's about men's rights. I don't want to be locked into the role of the breadwinner, I don't want to have to be distant, authoritarian, and all-powerful figure. I don't want to feel like I have to work out, just because of a social-constructed 'Male Power' fantasy.

And there's a lot contemporary feminists have done wrong- targeting mens groups, pushing for different things I oppose. But real feminism is about helping people and breaking the barriers of oppression.

[Threlizdun]

Male feminist here, and you seem misinformed.

One in four college women report surviving rape (15 percent) or attempted rape (12 percent) since their fourteenth birthday.

In a study by the U.S. Centers for Disease control of 5,000 college students at over 100 colleges, 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" Thus, one in five college women has been raped at some point in her lifetime... 4% of men answered "yes" (1)

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

It's a problem, bro.

The issue with that is that Males are continuously informed that they cannot be raped by society, and dissuaded from reporting, while Women are encouraged to report by many parts of society (though also dissuaded by some parts.)
In addition, the question is poorly phrased, as perceptions of the nature of "force" change radically based on the understanding of the person asked.
It's entirely possible that many males simply do not consider coercion as a type of force (Coercion being the most frequent type of rape.), and/or do not consider being taken advantage of while drunk as a type of rape, and they havn't been regularly told otherwise by campaigning.
That is a part of rape culture. Absolutely. They need to be informed otherwise.

But what bugs the shit out of me about your type of feminism is that you never consider the whole picture.
A lot of men don't know what constitutes rape. This is your entire goddamn argument. This is your explanation for why women are raped more.
But when someone points out "If they don't know what constitutes rape, why the fuck do you believe their self-reporting figures?" you go immediately silent.

Maybe we would be better served by dropping the gendered nonsense and focusing on rape as a social issue instead of a gender one. By continuously reinforcing the notion that women do not rape, and only men rape, we completely undermine our efforts to get people to understand what rape actually is.
The problem is basically a wing of feminism that is out to demonize men at all costs, even if it results in worse lives for women.
In short, i'm betting the male report is far, far underrepresented.

Combating rape culture most certainly necessitates rejecting the notion that only women are raped or that women cannot rape others, but to deny the sexist history and continued status or rape in society is positively ludicrous. Rape is the total sexual domination over an individual while subjugating their desires. This attitude is largely a result of several millenniums of sexual domination of men over women. The role of women in society as a whole is still subservient to men. They are de jure equal in most regards but the unequal status they are given both as individuals and as a collective is overwhelmingly apparent. Women continue to be abused because people still fail to see anything wrong with their abuse. It is deemed to be the appropriate place of women and a non-issue. You are right in noting the harms suffered by men, but this is hardly an indication that feminism is invalid, but a reflection of the fact that sexism is always dually sexist. Prescribing roles for men and women harms both. Advancement of the societal status of women is a necessity for the advancement of the societal status of men. Until all cultural oppression ends everyone will continue to suffer.

[Terra Sector Union]

I have decided I am no longer going to have debates on the internet with people who say things like "women are equal and feminists hate men", "why is there black history month", "what is the point of gay pride", etc. I cannot take any of you seriously. Young Earth creationists are no more out of touch with reality than you people are.

Interesting you brought all of this up, and I oppose all of this. And in case you're wondering, I'm not a christian straight white male.

Black History Month favors a one-sided view of American (or other nation)'s history over the other. No more racial group gets one except for this one. But I really don't give a damn who should get a history month because there doesn't need to be one. All this does is cause more racial tensions which is not needed in a civilized society. BHM is nothing more but de facto segregation.

On gay pride, I honestly think homosexuals can be part of everyday society if they don't make a big deal out of their sexuality. Heteros don't do that, so if homosexuals act the same way, it would be considered normal. All Gay pride does is make homosexuals look special than others.

This is my final say on these things. A lot of these progressive movements aren't really making a lot of progress in removing prejudice and bigotry. It's provoking more of it. (Sorry if I am wording things a bit weirdly. I'm a bit tired).

[New Tyran]

Pretty useless.

[Blasveck]

No? I mean, you either have to be an uninformed dude or just don't seem to be aware of the rights that women still lack.

Like being paid around 80 cents for every dollar a man makes, for starters: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/0 ... -than-men/

[Ostroeuropa]

The issue with that is that Males are continuously informed that they cannot be raped by society, and dissuaded from reporting, while Women are encouraged to report by many parts of society (though also dissuaded by some parts.)
In addition, the question is poorly phrased, as perceptions of the nature of "force" change radically based on the understanding of the person asked.
It's entirely possible that many males simply do not consider coercion as a type of force (Coercion being the most frequent type of rape.), and/or do not consider being taken advantage of while drunk as a type of rape, and they havn't been regularly told otherwise by campaigning.
That is a part of rape culture. Absolutely. They need to be informed otherwise.

But what bugs the shit out of me about your type of feminism is that you never consider the whole picture.
A lot of men don't know what constitutes rape. This is your entire goddamn argument. This is your explanation for why women are raped more.
But when someone points out "If they don't know what constitutes rape, why the fuck do you believe their self-reporting figures?" you go immediately silent.

Maybe we would be better served by dropping the gendered nonsense and focusing on rape as a social issue instead of a gender one. By continuously reinforcing the notion that women do not rape, and only men rape, we completely undermine our efforts to get people to understand what rape actually is.
The problem is basically a wing of feminism that is out to demonize men at all costs, even if it results in worse lives for women.
In short, i'm betting the male report is far, far underrepresented.

Combating rape culture most certainly necessitates rejecting the notion that only women are raped or that women cannot rape others, but to deny the sexist history and continued status or rape in society is positively ludicrous. Rape is the total sexual domination over an individual while subjugating their desires. This attitude is largely a result of several millenniums of sexual domination of men over women. The role of women in society as a whole is still subservient to men. They are de jure equal in most regards but the unequal status they are given both as individuals and as a collective is overwhelmingly apparent. Women continue to be abused because people still fail to see anything wrong with their abuse. It is deemed to be the appropriate place of women and a non-issue. You are right in noting the harms suffered by men, but this is hardly an indication that feminism is invalid, but a reflection of the fact that sexism is always dually sexist. Prescribing roles for men and women harms both. Advancement of the societal status of women is a necessity for the advancement of the societal status of men. Until all cultural oppression ends everyone will continue to suffer.

This is basically a nonsense reply.
You're basing this on nothing. You have absolutely no evidence that the statistics that show men are raped less aren't corrupted by rape culture, something that many feminist groups continuously perpetuate in an ouroboros of nonsense.
"Stop focusing on women. You are marginalizing male victims and making them less likely to come forward."
"Uh, but most of the victims are women! they keep coming forward"
^
Above is a basic case of the kind of malformed logic feminists keep advocating.
To the point where I have to conclude they are either indoctrinated, stupid, or actively malicious. And so are many others coming to the same conclusion.
The cultish behaviour leads me to suspect indoctrinated in most cases, though some are certainly stupid and/or malicious.

[Gallup]

Yes. Instead of trying to ban the word bossy, they should be spending money in places like Saudi Arabia, where a feminist movement is needed