Clegg V Farage: EU Debate

[Old Tyrannia]

Those who believe that facts will win this battle are mistaken. Why I believe this, is when was the last time that facts won in a political debate? I hope the facts win and fear mongers lose. But, as history shows the fear mongers usually win.

I'm watching the debate right now, and frankly I think they're both relying on fear mongering.

[Napkiraly]

Well Farage had a nice little spaz attack over Clegg rightfully asking him why he didn't vote on legislation that would help British tourists.

[Angleter]

Bizarrely, Farage is using the state of Italian jails as an argument against the EU, and Clegg using the state of Greek jails as an argument for it. One thing we can all agree on is that our jails are the best damn jails in Europe.

[Darwinish Brentsylvania]

Too much debate, not enough winning.

[Wolfmanne]

I really hate Farage's view on the justice systems of Latin and Mediterranean countries.

[Agritum]

I really hate Farage's view on the justice systems of Latin and Mediterranean countries.

Civil Law? Well, it isn't restricted to Mediterranean countries: pretty much everyone but the UK uses it.

[Napkiraly]

Bizarrely, Farage is using the state of Italian jails as an argument against the EU, and Clegg using the state of Greek jails as an argument for it. One thing we can all agree on is that our jails are the best damn jails in Europe.

Norway would like to speak to you.

[Quintium]

Farage should focus on the future of the European Union. Clegg keeps focusing on theoretical futures for Britain, but Farage should focus on the future that the European Union itself wants. I'm glad he mentioned Viviane Reding's statement about moving towards a United States of Europe. It should never be forgotten that the European Union is based on a few central premises: (1) there must be an ever-closer union, (2) this union should focus on liberalisation, deregulation and privatisation, and (3) this union should harmonise as many laws as it can, especially economic laws, monetary laws and trade laws.

The European Union can only move in one direction: forward. And the real question should be whether Britain - or any country - would want to be part of that.

I really hate Farage's view on the justice systems of Latin and Mediterranean countries.

To be honest, they do have a very bad reputation up north.
I'm from the Netherlands, and we often wish we could send our pedophiles and murderers south, because at least there they'd be punished by the conditions in those jails.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Bizarrely, Farage is using the state of Italian jails as an argument against the EU, and Clegg using the state of Greek jails as an argument for it. One thing we can all agree on is that our jails are the best damn jails in Europe.

Norway would like to speak to you.

Beat me to it.

[Old Tyrannia]

The BBC reporters' side bar seems quite heavily biased against Farage.

[European Socialist Republic]

Well Farage had a nice little spaz attack over Clegg rightfully asking him why he didn't vote on legislation that would help British tourists.

You mean why he didn't vote for it in the EP? Probably because he wasn't there. Seriously, Farage's attendance rate is one of the worst in the EP.

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/nigel-farage.html

Participation in roll-call votes: 44.87%. Ranking: 757th (there are currently 766 MEPs...)

[Ostroeuropa]

Clegg is totally useless and incompetent.
Both of them dodged questions, made shit up, and the usual spin. Fuck, I could have defended europe better.
Farage at least managed to hide his nonsense in a cloud of anti-establishmentism and likability, though I notice the mood of the room darkened when Gay Marriage was brought up.

[Wolfmanne]

Clegg is totally useless and incompetent.
Both of them dodged questions, made shit up, and the usual spin. Fuck, I could have defended europe better.
Farage at least managed to hide his nonsense in a cloud of anti-establishmentism and likability, though I notice the mood of the room darkened when Gay Marriage was brought up.

Kenneth Clarke should of represented the pro-EU side. Sadly he doesn't get as much attention as he used to get.

[Quintium]

Well Farage had a nice little spaz attack over Clegg rightfully asking him why he didn't vote on legislation that would help British tourists.

You mean why he didn't vote for it in the EP? Probably because he wasn't there. Seriously, Farage's attendance rate is one of the worst in the EP.

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/nigel-farage.html

Participation in roll-call votes: 44.87%. Ranking: 757th (there are currently 766 MEPs...)

He's only there to attack the European Union. And you can't do that by attending all kinds of committee meetings. In short: MEPs are divided into 'committees' that have to discuss and vote on the more technical issues. But since Nigel Farage opposes the European Union, he can't exactly take part in committees where it's all about how the European Union should act. I mean, these committees are based on the assumption that the European Union should act, and that's their basic starting point. Why would Nigel Farage attend them?

[Quintium]

The BBC reporters' side bar seems quite heavily biased against Farage.

Well, of course it is. The BBC's bias problem goes quite a bit deeper than just the situation that a few people were named and blamed for a few years ago.

[Nevanmaa]

Farage just defended Yanukovich by blaming the EU for inciting rebellion in the UK.

Really? Is he serious?

[Ostroeuropa]

Clegg is totally useless and incompetent.
Both of them dodged questions, made shit up, and the usual spin. Fuck, I could have defended europe better.
Farage at least managed to hide his nonsense in a cloud of anti-establishmentism and likability, though I notice the mood of the room darkened when Gay Marriage was brought up.

Kenneth Clarke should of represented the pro-EU side. Sadly he doesn't get as much attention as he used to get.

Clarke would have been a fine choice, I agree.

[L Ron Cupboard]

The BBC reporters' side bar seems quite heavily biased against Farage.

Well, of course it is. The BBC's bias problem goes quite a bit deeper than just the situation that a few people were named and blamed for a few years ago.

How many times do you need this explaining to you?

[Angleter]

Bizarrely, Farage is using the state of Italian jails as an argument against the EU, and Clegg using the state of Greek jails as an argument for it. One thing we can all agree on is that our jails are the best damn jails in Europe.

Norway would like to speak to you.

It wasn't a particularly serious point. But in any case, one wonders if there are anguished British souls trapped in Oslo, being screamed at in Norwegian, and hopeless because they're on the wrong side of the pulled-up Norwegian drawbridge.

[Dejanic]

Nigel Farage literally just appealed to emotions, very few actual facts from his side. Not that Clegg did much better. I think in reality both of them lost this debate.

[Ostroeuropa]

Nigel Farage literally just appealed to emotions, very few actual facts from his side. Not that Clegg did much better. I think in reality both of them lost this debate.

The debate has gone on long enough that this has changed no minds on the issue.
Farage will make his supporters confident that the Pro-EU side has no new arguments.
Clegg will make the Pro-EU side irritated that he fucked up so badly and will have them out for his blood/looking for a new spokesman.
It has become clear that we Europeans cannot entrust our future to the establishment politicians. We need a farage.

This should have been an annihilation, a curb stomp, a full rout of the skeptics. It was a disaster for us.

[Wolfmanne]

Nigel Farage literally just appealed to emotions, very few actual facts from his side. Not that Clegg did much better. I think in reality both of them lost this debate.

The debate has gone on long enough that this has changed no minds on the issue.
Farage will make his supporters confident that the Pro-EU side has no new arguments.
Clegg will make the Pro-EU side irritated that he fucked up so badly and will have them out for his blood/looking for a new spokesman.
It has become clear that we Europeans cannot entrust our future to the establishment politicians. We need a farage.

I don't think Nick was that bad. Yes, he did appeal to emotion, but his statistics and facts had a lot more bearing than the shit that Farage was pulling out.

EDIT: And by God, the last thing we need is a pro-EU Farage. Clarke, who I keep bringing up, is close enough, but still manages to maintain his sanity.

[Angleter]

Clegg is totally useless and incompetent.
Both of them dodged questions, made shit up, and the usual spin. Fuck, I could have defended europe better.
Farage at least managed to hide his nonsense in a cloud of anti-establishmentism and likability, though I notice the mood of the room darkened when Gay Marriage was brought up.

Kenneth Clarke should of represented the pro-EU side. Sadly he doesn't get as much attention as he used to get.

Ken Clarke, who screams 'Establishment' and 'corporatism' from the rooftops even more than Clegg does, and to boot is a political dinosaur who seems to lose even more tact every time he speaks?

[Ostroeuropa]

The debate has gone on long enough that this has changed no minds on the issue.
Farage will make his supporters confident that the Pro-EU side has no new arguments.
Clegg will make the Pro-EU side irritated that he fucked up so badly and will have them out for his blood/looking for a new spokesman.
It has become clear that we Europeans cannot entrust our future to the establishment politicians. We need a farage.

I don't think Nick was that bad. Yes, he did appeal to emotion, but his statistics and facts had a lot more bearing than the shit that Farage was pulling out.

He fucked up on extradition treaties, and it smacked of dishonesty. If you have to lie to make your argument, your argument isn't any good.
Is he an idiot, or is he just dishonest. I have no idea anymore.
He fucked up like that a number of times, instead of actually countering farages bullshit, he'd counter some imaginary bullshit that farage didn't say, and then farage just says "But we aren't talking about that." and he's entirely right.

[Wolfmanne]

Kenneth Clarke should of represented the pro-EU side. Sadly he doesn't get as much attention as he used to get.

Ken Clarke, who screams 'Establishment' and 'corporatism' from the rooftops even more than Clegg does, and to boot is a political dinosaur who seems to lose even more tact every time he speaks?

The same Kenneth Clarke who won us the World Cup, is one of the most popular Tory politicians at this point in time with the public and who doesn't get any decent Ministerial post because of pressure from the Daily Mail readers and the Euroskeptics? Yes, I'm talking about that Kenneth Clarke.