Should Immigrants to the USA learn English?

[Estormo]

Once upon a time...nations had primary languages...

Once upon a time, there was a little boy named Estormo who posted up random non-sequiturs...

Nice bait, you have there. It does contribute to your last statement, because they need it function. You need to speak Hungarian to function in Hungary, Italian to function in Italy, etc.

[Viritica]

The problem arises when people identify themselves with their ethnic country rather than the country they actually live in.

I fail to see why that is a problem. I identify with my country of origin and I live in the US. Just because a few may cause problems doing this doesn't mean that the practice is bad or that it will be inherently problematic.

There's a difference between taking pride in where you're from rather than choosing your ethnic country over the country you live in now.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Erosion of what culture? American culture? A culture that is an amalgamation of many different immigrant cultures?

And I have said it several times already. Immigrants should learn the language of the country they emigrate to. But forcing them to is not the way. If anything, what that, compulsory education in English, may do is force them into isolation out of anger.

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

I never said the US doesn't have a culture. Try to read properly.

[The Scientific States]

Erosion of what culture? American culture? A culture that is an amalgamation of many different immigrant cultures?

And I have said it several times already. Immigrants should learn the language of the country they emigrate to. But forcing them to is not the way. If anything, what that, compulsory education in English, may do is force them into isolation out of anger.

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

We do have a culture. We have several. America is a melting pot, and has been for centuries. I don't think another culture being thrown into the pot is such a bad thing.

I don't think they'd be mad at those being offered, but I don't think they'd be to happy about the idea of being forced to do so.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Once upon a time, there was a little boy named Estormo who posted up random non-sequiturs...

Nice bait, you have there. It does contribute to your last statement, because they need it function. You need to speak Hungarian to function in Hungary, Italian to function in Italy, etc.

And they don't need English to function in America, your point?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I fail to see why that is a problem. I identify with my country of origin and I live in the US. Just because a few may cause problems doing this doesn't mean that the practice is bad or that it will be inherently problematic.

There's a difference between taking pride in where you're from rather than choosing your ethnic country over the country you live in now.

Identification with your country of origin doesn't imply choosing your country of origin instead of the one you live in.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

We do have a culture. We have several. America is a melting pot, and has been for centuries. I don't think another culture being thrown into the pot is such a bad thing.

I don't think they'd be mad at those being offered, but I don't think they'd be to happy about the idea of being forced to do so.

I mean, help me out here. Did I say the US lacks a culture? Because I'm not seeing it.

[Libertarian California]

Erosion of what culture? American culture? A culture that is an amalgamation of many different immigrant cultures?

And I have said it several times already. Immigrants should learn the language of the country they emigrate to. But forcing them to is not the way. If anything, what that, compulsory education in English, may do is force them into isolation out of anger.

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

Looks at our history and our domestic innovations in literature, art, science, and music.

Nope. No culture here. Just immigrants, I tell ya!

[Estormo]

Nice bait, you have there. It does contribute to your last statement, because they need it function. You need to speak Hungarian to function in Hungary, Italian to function in Italy, etc.

And they don't need English to function in America, your point?

For the most part, yes. They do. If they want to live in an area, like say....Vermont or New Hampshire. Learning English is a necessity.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

Looks at our history and our domestic innovations in literature, art, science, and music.

Nope. No culture here. Just immigrants, I tell ya!

Many of those innovations did, in fact, come from immigrants, or second generation immigrants.

[The Scientific States]

We do have a culture. We have several. America is a melting pot, and has been for centuries. I don't think another culture being thrown into the pot is such a bad thing.

I don't think they'd be mad at those being offered, but I don't think they'd be to happy about the idea of being forced to do so.

I mean, help me out here. Did I say the US lacks a culture? Because I'm not seeing it.

I didn't see it.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

And they don't need English to function in America, your point?

For the most part, yes. They do. If they want to live in an area, like say....Vermont or New Hampshire. Learning English is a necessity.

It is wise, but not a necessity.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I mean, help me out here. Did I say the US lacks a culture? Because I'm not seeing it.

I didn't see it.

I rest my case then.

[The Scientific States]

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

Looks at our history and our domestic innovations in literature, art, science, and music.

Nope. No culture here. Just immigrants, I tell ya!

You guys misread Nana's post. She didn't claim that our nation lacks a culture.

[Sibirsky]

Irrelevant.

Maybe they have a learning disability? Should they be banned from the country based on a condition beyond their control? Should the same rules be applied to Americans, then? Should we forcibly remove Americans with learning disabilities?

Oh no! Businesses want to make it easier for immigrants to do business with them. The horror!

Irrelevant? Please. People say there aren't any laws concerning language. It's relevant because laws do exist regarding how short-term residents enter the States.

The majority of people immigrating to the US are capable of learning speech. There are programs already in place to help people with learning disabilities. What about that German-speaking mother with a severely autistic child? She can better communicate the child's needs if she has a basic command of English. It benefits him. Your strawman is pointless.

As for businesses making it easier for immigrants to do business with them? Where did business enter into it? 911 operators can't help if they don't speak the foreign language. Universities hold classes in English thus a non-English-speaker is at a disadvantage because he can't obtain higher education. A doctor or pharmacy needs to explain medications and what side effects to watch for but can't convey these things to a person who doesn't understand English. Requiring people to learn the very basics of a language in order to gain citizenship will only put that person at an advantage while removing the possibility of someone taking advantage of them due to a communication barrier.

Yes, your visa situation is irrelevant.

That's not a strawman.

You said "Press 1 for Spanish." The overwhelming majority of those calls are business related.

If someone wants to take college courses, they will learn English. Why should they be forced to?

[Norstal]

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

Sign up for the army. You get a free gun, free money, and free vacation time.

I don't think anyone will oppose the idea of free English classes. What everyone will oppose is that it is compulsory.

[Viritica]

There's a difference between taking pride in where you're from rather than choosing your ethnic country over the country you live in now.

Identification with your country of origin doesn't imply choosing your country of origin instead of the one you live in.

I never said it was. That's actually the point that I was making. The problem arises when people begin to choose their ethnic country over the country they live in now. You can take pride being ethnic Irish or whatever but don't choose Ireland over America if you live here now.

[Estormo]

Looks at our history and our domestic innovations in literature, art, science, and music.

Nope. No culture here. Just immigrants, I tell ya!

Many of those innovations did, in fact, come from immigrants, or second generation immigrants.

And a lot of them changed their names to look more English, and definitely learned the English language. Lest we not forget that.

[Estormo]

For the most part, yes. They do. If they want to live in an area, like say....Vermont or New Hampshire. Learning English is a necessity.

It is wise, but not a necessity.

In areas like that, it is a necessity. What do they plan to do? Live off the wilds, and live in the woods alone with themselves, not integrating?

[Pilotto]

Are you advocating for open borders? That would cause lots of problems for the United States, namely all of the extra labor would severely depress wages and, as a result, significantly lower the standard of living. I think we can all agree (or at least most of us can agree) that would be a bad thing.

Not at all. I don't see how you got that idea from my post. I'm all for legal immigration, and I'm all for not deporting illegals, but instead giving them a pathway to citizenship, if they wish(maybe a temporary visa until they get documented), but you're correct about open borders. Open borders are bad, legal immigration is healthy for a nation.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sympathetic towards those that desperately want to come here, but I don't see why we should give special treatment to those that come here illegally by giving them a special pathway to citizenship. If you set the limit on how many foreign immigrants you can accept each year before it begins to negatively affect your economy, you have to think: for every immigrant you accept, you will be turning another one down. Either way, someone who wants to become a US citizen will be denied the chance, which is sad. So, in trying to pick the best people that you can to become citizens, why do illegal immigrants deserve any special consideration? It would only serve to encourage more illegal immigration.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Identification with your country of origin doesn't imply choosing your country of origin instead of the one you live in.

I never said it was. That's actually the point that I was making. The problem arises when people begin to choose their ethnic country over the country they live in now. You can take pride being ethnic Irish or whatever but don't choose Ireland over America if you live here now.

Not every immigrant that chooses to identify with their country of origin instead of the country they reside in causes problems. You're just pointing out a small fraction of immigrants. And even many of the ones who do that, do not do it to undermine the country of residence.

[The Scientific States]

Identification with your country of origin doesn't imply choosing your country of origin instead of the one you live in.

I never said it was. That's actually the point that I was making. The problem arises when people begin to choose their ethnic country over the country they live in now. You can take pride being ethnic Irish or whatever but don't choose Ireland over America if you live here now.

In the case of many Hispanic Americans, particularly illegals, they risk their lives just to come to America. It seems like they choose America.

In the case of all immigrants, they come to the country of their choice for a reason, because they want to be there, not in there home country. Often times, they leave their country, despite financial hardship, and uncertainties. To me, it proves that they really do want to be in the country they chose to immigrate to.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Many of those innovations did, in fact, come from immigrants, or second generation immigrants.

And a lot of them changed their names to look more English, and definitely learned the English language. Lest we not forget that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholem_Aleichem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Bashevis_Singer

Definitely English names. Very English.

[America Libertaria]

Oh no not another "America doesn't have any real culture" argument. Whether you like it or not Americans (not recent immigrants) are quite multicultural. I have more in common with an American from the other side of the continental United States than I do with an immigrant who lives down the block. To say we don't have any distinct culture is moronic.

also, if an immigrant is somehow angry over getting free language and assimilation courses so that they can assimilate into the country they immigrated to then they shouldn't be here at all.

We do have a culture. We have several. America is a melting pot, and has been for centuries. I don't think another culture being thrown into the pot is such a bad thing.

I don't think they'd be mad at those being offered, but I don't think they'd be to happy about the idea of being forced to do so.

We hardly have several. Americans are very monocultural. It's quite obvious in all of our social media, TV, news, etc.

Not everyone is going to be happy about being forced to do something. Kids don't like being forced to go to school so we should not make them? Corporations don't like paying minimum wage so we should just abolish the minimum wage? Sometimes the government has to do what's best
even if some people don't like it. There has to be a point in which the government says "enough is enough". Like Teddy Roosevelt and the 44 monopolies he broke up, and FDR with his New Deal. We can't always take the "freedom" route. You sound just as ridiculous as Austrian economics when you don't want any restrictions on these things.

[Sibirsky]

I think an amnesty program should require some English instruction yes. Of course with the ability to test out for those already proficient.

Amnesty is a joke, If you enter the United States illegally you should be kicked out and banned permanently from entrance to the United States. Unless you were taken here illegally as a child, then you should be ejected without being permanently banned. You should learn English to become an American amnesty program or not, in my opinion.

Your opinion is a joke. How in the fuck do you expect them to enter legally, when you make it nearly impossible for some people?

And how do you expect to deport tens of millions of people? At what economic and social cost?

Your proposal is moronic beyond belief.