Should Immigrants to the USA learn English?

[Viritica]

I'm not saying they should be forced to learn it. What I am saying is that fluency in English should be a requirement.

If you're going to immigrate to a country why would you not want to learn that country's primary language? It'd make life easier on you and many of the people you associate with.

It would, but if one decides not to, that's their choice. It only can harm them.

It's all a matter of integration. If we integrate them properly then life becomes easier for everyone.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Not true. Most people who don't speak English in the US live in predominantly Hispanic communities, where most of the population speaks Spanish, and most of the population doesn't even speak English. In those communities, they do fine, since everyone speaks Spanish.

The same can be said for predominantly Chinese areas etc etc

Those are some very isolated communities. If you ever want to venture outside of those communities, English is a necessity. I personally think it would be for the best if the whole nation spoke a single, unifying language. And, since English is just sorta the de facto language of the US (our laws are written in it), it seems like a pretty fair standard to me.

I will give you an example from my own Chinese community here in California. Many people in Chinatown, Monteray Park, San Gabriel, Alhambra, etc. are all monolingual Chinese speakers, and they do live in a Chinese community. Yet, the Costcos, Walmarts, Targets, etc. nearby, which, by the way, do not hire only Chinese speakers, are full of Chinese shoppers, most not even having any command of the language at all. They still are able to purchase products, hold jobs, and, in short, contribute to the larger American society and interact with the outside American community.

[The Scientific States]

It would, but if one decides not to, that's their choice. It only can harm them.

It's all a matter of integration. If we integrate them properly then life becomes easier for everyone.

We can only encourage them to integrate. Besides, I don't see how it does the latter. It doesn't harm you or me that some people can't speak English.

[Pilotto]

It seems to me that, since we only accept a very limited number of immigrants each year anyway, why would we want to accept those that are not willing to learn English?

Because they are willing to go pass our citizenship test and obey our laws, regardless of their inability to speak English? I mean, they are not harming anyone by not being able to speak the language, and they still contribute to the economy, in the form of labour, being a consumer, etc. So, there really isn't any real excuse beside your xenophobia.

And what language are those laws written in? And we've already had this discussion.

In order to be able to adequately function in American society, you need English.

Many families get along just fine without English. In fact, in Los Angeles' Chinatown, most of the residents, the older generation, at any rate, have very limited competancy in English, and they still get along fine in American society.

It seems pretty sad to be unable to leave your small town because you don't speak the language of the land.

And, since there are always way more people applying for citizenship than we ever accept, we can afford to be picky. Why would we select someone that doesn't know English over someone who does?

The question isn't whether we should pick only English speakers (because that is simply a stupid suggestion), the question is if we should pay for unnecessary English classes so the immigrants can speak English. No one is suggesting that we go on board every boat and spend hours testing them if they can give you directions to the library near the park from Kimberly's house.

The post I was responding to was talking specifically about citizenship. If you just want to stay in the US temporarily, like for vacation or whatever, then of course you don't need to learn a whole new language. That would be a stupid standard.

[The Grey Wolf]

Yes.

Or better yet, immigrants should GET TEH FUCK OUT! To pass highschool i need to learn a goddamn foreign language. THIS IS AMERICA, NOT SPAIN OR CUBA, OR FRANCE OR ANY GODDAMN NATION.

Cute image, but it makes no sense. European-Americans weren't illegal immigrants, they were invaders or settlers, which is a big difference.

[Pilotto]

Those are some very isolated communities. If you ever want to venture outside of those communities, English is a necessity. I personally think it would be for the best if the whole nation spoke a single, unifying language. And, since English is just sorta the de facto language of the US (our laws are written in it), it seems like a pretty fair standard to me.

No, they're not. It would not be best for the whole nation. Not learning English only harms the person, not the community. We shouldn't make smart decisions mandatory.

When deciding who becomes a citizen and who does not, why would we accept those who do not make the smart decision?

[Viritica]

It's all a matter of integration. If we integrate them properly then life becomes easier for everyone.

We can only encourage them to integrate. Besides, I don't see how it does the latter. It doesn't harm you or me that some people can't speak English.

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

And what language are those laws written in? And we've already had this discussion.

In dense, legal jargon that even native English speakers do not understand.

Thankfully, we have a class of people who deal with these legal problems- Lawyers.

We also have people willing to translate the law into different languages for their benefit.

There is, in short, no problem at all beside your xenophobic misgivings.

It seems pretty sad to be unable to leave your small town because you don't speak the language of the land.

Only, they do, frequently.

The post I was responding to was talking specifically about citizenship. If you just want to stay in the US temporarily, like for vacation or whatever, then of course you don't need to learn a whole new language. That would be a stupid standard.

I am speaking about citizenship- it is stupid only allow those that can speak English into this nation, and is thankfully what is not being proposed. What is proposed is that language classes should be forced so immigrants will have the basics of the language, which is just an idiotic waste of our money.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

No, they're not. It would not be best for the whole nation. Not learning English only harms the person, not the community. We shouldn't make smart decisions mandatory.

When deciding who becomes a citizen and who does not, why would we accept those who do not make the smart decision?

Because it has no effect on them as citizens? Because not learning English would not automatically make one go about breaking the law? Because they contribute to society and the economy regardless?

[The Scientific States]

We can only encourage them to integrate. Besides, I don't see how it does the latter. It doesn't harm you or me that some people can't speak English.

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

For one, that's complete bullshit. I thought we explained it to you on the threads where Islamic courts were mentioned, they don't exist.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

We can only encourage them to integrate. Besides, I don't see how it does the latter. It doesn't harm you or me that some people can't speak English.

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

They can hold jobs alright without knowing English. I've seen it with a lot of Hispanics in the US. Your point is moot.

[Viritica]

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

For one, that's complete bullshit. I thought we explained it to you on the threads where Islamic courts were mentioned, they don't exist.

It's not complete bullshit. I realize that they're not actually courts that have any impact on the legal situation of the country. They are established by the people there to deal with apparent Islamic issues.

So you, my friend, are the one bullshitting here.

[The Scientific States]

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

They can hold jobs alright without knowing English. I've seen it with a lot of Hispanics in the US. Your point is moot.

Indeed. Where I live, most of the non-English speaking Hispanics, have jobs.

[Viritica]

I direct your attention to Britain, a country that has done a horrible job integrating its Islamic immigrants and now has entire communities that are more like separate entities with their own little Islamic "courts" to deal with issues inside the community.

They need to be integrated. It reduces racial tension and makes it easier for them to hold jobs.

They can hold jobs alright without knowing English. I've seen it with a lot of Hispanics in the US. Your point is moot.

They can if the owner speaks English... Which is not always the case.

[Pilotto]

When deciding who becomes a citizen and who does not, why would we accept those who do not make the smart decision?

Because it has no effect on them as citizens? Because not learning English would not automatically make one go about breaking the law? Because they contribute to society and the economy regardless?

Like I said, when deciding who does and does not get to become a citizen, we can afford to be picky. There is not shortage of people who want to immigrate here, so why would we want to accept those who will be unable to adequately communicate with the vast, vast majority of their fellow countrymen? For every immigrant you accept who does not know English, you are turning one down who does.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

For one, that's complete bullshit. I thought we explained it to you on the threads where Islamic courts were mentioned, they don't exist.

It's not complete bullshit. I realize that they're not actually courts that have any impact on the legal situation of the country. They are established by the people there to deal with apparent Islamic issues.

So you, my friend, are the one bullshitting here.

Jews also have religious courts. Your point?

[The Scientific States]

For one, that's complete bullshit. I thought we explained it to you on the threads where Islamic courts were mentioned, they don't exist.

It's not complete bullshit. I realize that they're not actually courts that have any impact on the legal situation of the country. They are established by the people there to deal with apparent Islamic issues.

So you, my friend, are the one bullshitting here.

They don't do anything. I don't see how I'm bullshitting. You just said yourself that they don't mean anything. You're acting like the UK is being taking over by Muslims, but it hasn't affected the lives of everyday British citizens in the slightest. The only way it's affected Britain, is by giving rise to extremist parties like the UKIP. And that's not the fault of the Muslims, it's the fault of reactionary racists who think Muslims=icky.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

They can hold jobs alright without knowing English. I've seen it with a lot of Hispanics in the US. Your point is moot.

Indeed. Where I live, most of the non-English speaking Hispanics, have jobs.

Indeed.

Either way, most of them do, in time, learn English. But in the meantime, they can defend themselves quite well. There's no need to force them to learn English.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Because it has no effect on them as citizens? Because not learning English would not automatically make one go about breaking the law? Because they contribute to society and the economy regardless?

Like I said, when deciding who does and does not get to become a citizen, we can afford to be picky. There is not shortage of people who want to immigrate here, so why would we want to accept those who will be unable to adequately communicate with the vast, vast majority of their fellow countrymen? For every immigrant you accept who does not know English, you are turning one down who does.

There isn't a shortage of people wanting to come here, most of them don't speak English, the vast majority does not speak English. In fact, I would go so far as to say that one can take in all English speaking Immigrants, and still take in lots of non-English speaking immigrants. There is no loss if we do accept an immigrant who does not speak English, but who has a better record than some English speaking criminal.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

They can hold jobs alright without knowing English. I've seen it with a lot of Hispanics in the US. Your point is moot.

They can if the owner speaks English... Which is not always the case.

Nah, they can hold steady jobs regardless of whether the owner knows English or not.

[Viritica]

It's not complete bullshit. I realize that they're not actually courts that have any impact on the legal situation of the country. They are established by the people there to deal with apparent Islamic issues.

So you, my friend, are the one bullshitting here.

They don't do anything. I don't see how I'm bullshitting. You just said yourself that they don't mean anything. You're acting like the UK is being taking over by Muslims, but it hasn't affected the lives of everyday British citizens in the slightest. The only way it's affected Britain, is by giving rise to extremist parties like the UKIP. And that's not the fault of the Muslims, it's the fault of reactionary racists who think Muslims=icky.

Oh here we go again with the "you ebil natuonalizt you h8 mooslemans"

They deal with issues pertaining to Sharia law.

It's a failure on the part of the Britain to integrate people. If they have their own separate communities with their own separate courts I don't really think they're embracing Britain or its culture.

[Viritica]

They can if the owner speaks English... Which is not always the case.

Nah, they can hold steady jobs regardless of whether the owner knows English or not.

How?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Nah, they can hold steady jobs regardless of whether the owner knows English or not.

How?

I really don't need to know much English if I am just screwing nuts and bolts all day.

[Viritica]

How?

I really don't need to know much English if I am just screwing nuts and bolts all day.

...how do they communicate with their employers?

[The Scientific States]

They don't do anything. I don't see how I'm bullshitting. You just said yourself that they don't mean anything. You're acting like the UK is being taking over by Muslims, but it hasn't affected the lives of everyday British citizens in the slightest. The only way it's affected Britain, is by giving rise to extremist parties like the UKIP. And that's not the fault of the Muslims, it's the fault of reactionary racists who think Muslims=icky.

Oh here we go again with the "you ebil natuonalizt you h8 mooslemans"

They deal with issues pertaining to Sharia law.

It's a failure on the part of the Britain to integrate people. If they have their own separate communities with their own separate courts I don't really think they're embracing Britain or its culture.

I'm not saying that, I'm referring to extremist UKIPers.

Again, there aren't separate courts, they're guidelines etc etc.