Should Puerto Rico be granted statehood?

[Geilinor]

You're right. Plenty of non-citizens are also culturally American.

And plenty of citizens are not culturally American.

Citizenship is how we decide whether people are American are not. You know, the United States being based on civic nationalism and not ethnic nationalism. Why do I need to explain this to you?

[Lunatic Goofballs]

You're right. Plenty of non-citizens are also culturally American.

And plenty of citizens are not culturally American.

Define culturally American.

[Vashnal]

I believe Hawaii ought to be stripped of its statehood and made a territory once , again.

Why does this need to happen? I have the idea that PR shouldn't be a state, which in my opinion, It can be if it is able to. As though Hawai'i? Please explain yourself

[Mallorea and Riva]

There are more Puerto Ricans on the mainland US than in Puerto Rico. Their commonwealth status has really hampered their development and independence wouldn't be doing them any favors. Statehood would be best for them, they've been increasing the rate at which they lag behind the states in terms of educational development and a few other markers as things currently stand.

[Lenciland]

Over the thread pages the main argument I've seen is the cultural and linguistic difference thing and I have to say what about Louisiana, the Southwest, and Hawaii. They were and still are culturally and linguistically different look at South Africa, 22 different languages and they makes it work. The cultural and linguistic argument is one that is invalid to to the US roots of cultural and linguistic differences. This is why we have no official religion, America is supposed to be open to all kinds of people regardless of their culture, language, religion, or ethnicity. I say make all of our territories states and give them their rights!

[Lunatic Goofballs]

I believe Hawaii ought to be stripped of its statehood and made a territory once , again.

Why does this need to happen? I have the idea that PR shouldn't be a state, which in my opinion, It can be if it is able to. As though Hawai'i? Please explain yourself

Ultimate Strawman Fallacy Fail: You literally wrote a false argument I never made for you to attack. LOL. Wow.

P.S.: Don't fake quote me again.

[Qazox]

So is Hawaii. And Alaska. For that matter, so are a bunch of states. Alabama, New Mexico, Mississippi, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. They all suck up more in federal funds than they contribute in taxes. Apparently that's not a big deal to most people.

Ironically, they all have a tendency to be states calling for Federal budget cuts and pride themselves in states' rights. I believe one of the only ex-confederate states that brings in more money to the Fed than it receives is Texas.

And Florida.

[Goeiehoopland]

The only pragmatic argument against it is the cultural and linguistic divide between Puerto Ricans and the mainland United States. Progressive rhetoric about how "liek, everyone has the rite to be American" aside, Puerto Ricans and Americans have distinct histories, cultural roots, and ways of life which have developed parallel, but not quite intertwined, with one another; these considerations weren't as massive a priority when granting statehood to territorial Hawaii and Alaska as their earlier inhabitants were either marginalized by or assimilated into a migrant American population, a phenomenon which has actually been quite the reverse in PR's relationship with its parent state.

I'm not opposed to statehood, but it would augment the cultural crisis faced by the United States as it progresses along its unprecedentedly rapid transformative process of becoming a bilingual and ethnic nonmajority state. That, paired with the consideration that Puerto Ricans consistently reject statehood referendums in favor of retaining their Commonwealth status (even the '12 referendum passed with so marginal a majority the PR Assembly opted not to recognize it), makes statehood a more complicated issue than "hey, that circular 51-star flag proposal looks kinda cool!"

[Greed and Death]

No have them become part of Texas instead.

[Libertarian California]

And plenty of citizens are not culturally American.

Define culturally American.

American culture is the culture that was established by the English colonists in the 1600s, and gradually developed a distinct identity due to the new lifestyles people lead, and incorporated additions from Western European immigrants, forming a culture that revolves around the English language, negative liberty, Jeffersonian Democracy, emphasis on individualism and family, and industriousness. American culture is the closest the world has to a pan-Western culture, and the artistic expressions of this country are essentially a mix of Western European styles (the most prominent being British, German, Irish, and French). However, there are prominent African, or African-descended contributions, which include jazz and rap music). American culture also has many home-grown elements, which arose out of various events in this country's history, ranging from wars to civil, economic, and natural disasters.

Someone who is culturally American doesn't necessarily have to like these things, but their long-term exposure to these things definitely has an effect on them on a person, which is where the American character came from.

[Libertarian California]

And plenty of citizens are not culturally American.

Citizenship is how we decide whether people are American are not. You know, the United States being based on civic nationalism and not ethnic nationalism. Why do I need to explain this to you?

It was founded on the civic nationalism of bringing the 13 Colonies together into a single nation, which were pretty much all run by people of English, Scottish, French, German, Irish, and Dutch descent. Ethnically, these people were practically the same ethnic after just a few generations (ie, White Americans). Civic nationalism my ass. The country was founded by people who kept their ethnic group at the top. I see that blacks and Indians weren't part of the civic nationalist ideal. Probably because they were very different ethnic groups.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Define culturally American.

American culture is the culture that was established by the English colonists in the 1600s, and gradually developed a distinct identity due to the new lifestyles people lead, and incorporated additions from Western European immigrants, forming a culture that revolves around the English language, negative liberty, Jeffersonian Democracy, emphasis on individualism and family, and industriousness. American culture is the closest the world has to a pan-Western culture, and the artistic expressions of this country are essentially a mix of Western European styles (the most prominent being British, German, Irish, and French). However, there are prominent African, or African-descended contributions, which include jazz and rap music). American culture also has many home-grown elements, which arose out of various events in this country's history, ranging from wars to civil, economic, and natural disasters.

Someone who is culturally American doesn't necessarily have to like these things, but their long-term exposure to these things definitely has an effect on them on a person, which is where the American character came from.

Wow. What a complete failure. It completely ignores the contributions of the Native cultures, the Spanish(who colonized America before the English) and the Dutch and it underemphasizes the contributions of the French. Where do the Amish, Creole, Cajun, Isleño, Mennonite, Seminole, Cherokee, Mexican-American, etc. etc. fit into this AMerican Culture?

I Define American Culture as a love of freedom and dedication to the principles of liberty, individuality and self-improvement. And that's all.

[Libertarian California]

American culture is the culture that was established by the English colonists in the 1600s, and gradually developed a distinct identity due to the new lifestyles people lead, and incorporated additions from Western European immigrants, forming a culture that revolves around the English language, negative liberty, Jeffersonian Democracy, emphasis on individualism and family, and industriousness. American culture is the closest the world has to a pan-Western culture, and the artistic expressions of this country are essentially a mix of Western European styles (the most prominent being British, German, Irish, and French). However, there are prominent African, or African-descended contributions, which include jazz and rap music). American culture also has many home-grown elements, which arose out of various events in this country's history, ranging from wars to civil, economic, and natural disasters.

Someone who is culturally American doesn't necessarily have to like these things, but their long-term exposure to these things definitely has an effect on them on a person, which is where the American character came from.

Wow. What a complete failure. It completely ignores the contributions of the Native cultures, the Spanish(who colonized America before the English) and the Dutch and it underemphasizes the contributions of the French. Where do the Amish, Creole, Cajun, Isleño, Mennonite, Seminole, Cherokee, Mexican-American, etc. etc. fit into this AMerican Culture?

I mentioned the Dutch, and the French. The Cajuns, Creoles, Mennonite, and Amish are extensions of the Africans, Germans, and French. The Native Americans did not contribution much on the account nearly all of them died. However, their music and fashion is popular amongst hipsters. I forgot about the Spaniards, but outside of 37,000 Isleños, architecture and city names in the Southwest, and establishing the northern borders of California and Texas, their influence was minute, especially when compared to the English and Germans.

As for the Mexican-"Americans"?

...

I Define American Culture as a love of freedom and dedication to the principles of liberty, individuality and self-improvement. And that's all.

A culture that is nothing but abstract ideals is not really a culture, but a way of thinking and perception, which can be adopted by anybody around the world.

[Lemanrussland]

If the people of Puerto Rico want it, sure. It should basically be their decision.

[Lemanrussland]

The only pragmatic argument against it is the cultural and linguistic divide between Puerto Ricans and the mainland United States. Progressive rhetoric about how "liek, everyone has the rite to be American" aside, Puerto Ricans and Americans have distinct histories, cultural roots, and ways of life which have developed parallel, but not quite intertwined, with one another; these considerations weren't as massive a priority when granting statehood to territorial Hawaii and Alaska as their earlier inhabitants were either marginalized by or assimilated into a migrant American population, a phenomenon which has actually been quite the reverse in PR's relationship with its parent state.

I'm not opposed to statehood, but it would augment the cultural crisis faced by the United States as it progresses along its unprecedentedly rapid transformative process of becoming a bilingual and ethnic nonmajority state. That, paired with the consideration that Puerto Ricans consistently reject statehood referendums in favor of retaining their Commonwealth status (even the '12 referendum passed with so marginal a majority the PR Assembly opted not to recognize it), makes statehood a more complicated issue than "hey, that circular 51-star flag proposal looks kinda cool!"

How is becoming a ethnic nonmajority state a crisis? The ability of American culture to withstand such changes is actually a huge advantage in my books, we need more young workers in this country to support our aging population.

[Wisconsin9]

I support statehood.

[Frisivisia]

Yes, and most of the opposition I've seen for it boils down to "50 is a nice number" and racism, so I propose we give Arizona back so we have an even number of both states and "dirty Mexicans".

[Shofercia]

Whatever the people of Puerto Rico want, I'll support.

[Shofercia]

'annex' Puerto Rico????

Um, dude. Puerto Rico has been part of the United States since 1898 and their residents have been US Citizens since 1917.

Damn. That's one long naturalization program

[Grossdeutsches Kaiserreich]

Honestly, i think only territories connected to the lower 48 should be introduced as states. not that there are any.

Even Hawaii and Alaska are iffy to me, Alaska less so. at least Alaska is attached to the same continent.

I don't know why Puerto Rico would want to become an official and permanent part of the American government anyway. I hope they don't ever plan to change their minds, 'cause we know how well the government takes that since the war between the states. They stop being Puerto Rico and start being just a province of the federal government, better a territory than a province in my opinion at least.

I really don't see why they want to become part of the United States anyway, i'd sure as hell would be glad to see my state get out of the union personally.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Wow. What a complete failure. It completely ignores the contributions of the Native cultures, the Spanish(who colonized America before the English) and the Dutch and it underemphasizes the contributions of the French. Where do the Amish, Creole, Cajun, Isleño, Mennonite, Seminole, Cherokee, Mexican-American, etc. etc. fit into this AMerican Culture?

I mentioned the Dutch, and the French. The Cajuns, Creoles, Mennonite, and Amish are extensions of the Africans, Germans, and French. The Native Americans did not contribution much on the account nearly all of them died. However, their music and fashion is popular amongst hipsters. I forgot about the Spaniards, but outside of 37,000 Isleños, architecture and city names in the Southwest, and establishing the northern borders of California and Texas, their influence was minute, especially when compared to the English and Germans.

As for the Mexican-"Americans"?

...

I Define American Culture as a love of freedom and dedication to the principles of liberty, individuality and self-improvement. And that's all.

A culture that is nothing but abstract ideals is not really a culture, but a way of thinking and perception, which can be adopted by anybody around the world.

If the Native nations had so little influence on American culture, then why do more than half the states have names derived from Native languages? If Mexican-AMerican culture isn't an American Culture, then why is Cinco De Mayo an American holiday and not a Mexican holiday? Do you even know what it celebrates?

WHat about the Spanish influence in the American SouthEAST? Seven states have Spanish-derived state names. Including Florida. And the oldest European-founded city in the United States is Saint Augustine, Florida(A spanish named state).

My idea of American Culture may seem a little broad to you. But that's because American Culture is just that broad. It's certainly not as narrow as your perception of it.

[Frisivisia]

Honestly, i think only territories connected to the lower 48 should be introduced as states. not that there are any.

Even Hawaii and Alaska are iffy to me, Alaska less so. at least Alaska is attached to the same continent.

I don't know why Puerto Rico would want to become an official and permanent part of the American government anyway. I hope they don't ever plan to change their minds, 'cause we know how well the government takes that since the war between the states. They stop being Puerto Rico and start being just a province of the federal government, better a territory than a province in my opinion at least.

I really don't see why they want to become part of the United States anyway, i'd sure as hell would be glad to see my state get out of the union personally.

The reason that Puerto Ricans want in is that independence would result in a drastic loss of funding and their current situation has them pay taxation for a relatively low amount of support and a lack of representation.

But we can't have odd numbers or Spanish speakers because that's hard.

[Goeiehoopland]

How is becoming a ethnic nonmajority state a crisis? The ability of American culture to withstand such changes is actually a huge advantage in my books, we need more young workers in this country to support our aging population.

The crisis is one of identity, not one of commerce. Whether American culture and self-confidence has withstood the present demographic transformation has yet to be seen.

How on Earth does youth participation in the workforce relate to internal linguistic schism?

[Empire of Narnia]

You can't annex territory that's already part of your country.

Just grant it independence and then invade it right after.

[Grossdeutsches Kaiserreich]

The reason that Puerto Ricans want in is that independence would result in a drastic loss of funding and their current situation has them pay taxation for a relatively low amount of support and a lack of representation.

But we can't have odd numbers or Spanish speakers because that's hard.

So in other words, Puerto Rico wants to become part of the United States, or at the very least wants to avoid independence....

Is so they can leech off the other 50 states?

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Puerto Rico can try again when they are prepared to contribute money to the treasury. We've got a big enough debt anyway.