Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Zaldakki]

I wish current history had Sparknotes lol.

[Azaflaza]

Can someone give me a basic overview of the situation from the beginning? The whole thing still confuses me.

Sure thing.

EU tries to get Ukraine to sign a trade pact that would seriously harm trade links in the East. The President goes along with this for a while but eventually rejects it for closer ties with Russia.

Protests begin against the (legitimately elected government) with the active support of the EU, and America soon also gets involved on their side. Over months they escalate from peaceful sit ins to violent riots as they try and stay in the media spotlight.

February sees things come to head and dozens are shot dead in the streets by militants, Yanukovych the president signs a compromise deal with EU support on the 21st but the protesters reject it and force him out anyway.

EU reneges on the deal and recognizes the new regime, as does the US.

Crimea joins Russia.

Protests escalate in the East over this forceful change of power and then the new regime cracks down on them, with Western support.

And here we are

Well that's definitely Russia's version of events.

[Costa Fierro]

It's not an invasion if it's welcomed by the local population.

Yeah, no. It was an invasion and an illegal one at that.

Thats called liberation.

That is called a big pile of horseshit.

[Rio Cana]

So which political parties will be running in the elections on May 25. And what are there chances of winning seeing that Crimea is no longer around.

[United States of PA]

It's not an invasion if it's welcomed by the local population. Thats called liberation.

n. noun
The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
An intrusion or encroachment.

Yeah, try again. No matter how welcomed it was (Which is up for debate in its own right), Ukraine was invaded by the Russian Federation.

[Zaldakki]

Can someone give me a basic overview of the situation from the beginning? The whole thing still confuses me.

Sure thing.

EU tries to get Ukraine to sign a trade pact that would seriously harm trade links in the East. The President goes along with this for a while but eventually rejects it for closer ties with Russia.

Protests begin against the (legitimately elected government) with the active support of the EU, and America soon also gets involved on their side. Over months they escalate from peaceful sit ins to violent riots as they try and stay in the media spotlight.

February sees things come to head and dozens are shot dead in the streets by militants, Yanukovych the president signs a compromise deal with EU support on the 21st but the protesters reject it and force him out anyway.

EU reneges on the deal and recognizes the new regime, as does the US.

Crimea joins Russia.

Protests escalate in the East over this forceful change of power and then the new regime cracks down on them, with Western support.

And here we are

Hmm... Even going by Russia's side of events, it seems Ukraine is in the right.

[Zaldakki]

Ukraine, I am now your disciple.

[United Marxist Nations]

Arbitrary calculations + no actual source saying that this is require = not good enough. Try again.



Oh that's right, I forgot. As long as it's against "Nazis", it's perfectly fine for other people to act violently and beyond the law? Thought so. And what is the Ukraine doing? Are these militias sanctioned by the government? No. Are their actions sanctioned by the government? No.

1) To adopt an impeachment resolution, a minimum two-thirds of the parliament must support the impeachment procedure. To remove the President from office, a minimum three-quarters of parliament must support the resolution. The Constitutional and the Supreme Court of Ukraine's conclusions and decisions are considered at the parliamentary meetings.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_ ... succession

2) The Communist Party of Ukraine was not acting violently or against the law, yet many Maideners still want it banned. Yet, they have taken little action to ban Svoboda or the Right Sector, which have acted violently.

Repost.

[Yanalia]

Unlike Right Sector, the CPU is a political party, not a militia. CPU politicians are most certainly civilians. Regardless of course, they cannot be targets of random violence.

It was not random, he was actually attacked by the Maiden protestors, he was kidnapped, tortured, and badly beaten (last I heard, he was in a coma in a hospital in Russia, where he was taken for better treatment).

I meant random as opposed to directed state violence.

[United Marxist Nations]

Ukraine, I am now your disciple.

The current government illegally removed the president, thus violating the constitution. The East and Crimea have no obligation to an illegitimate government.

[Rio Cana]

It's not an invasion if it's welcomed by the local population. Thats called liberation.

n. noun
The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
An intrusion or encroachment.

Yeah, try again. No matter how welcomed it was (Which is up for debate in its own right), Ukraine was invaded by the Russian Federation.

But I thought that Aksyono, who became the Prime Minister of autonomous Crimea, invited the Russians to enter Crimea.

[United States of PA]

It would've, if Crimea had gone through a process of actually gaining internationally recognized independence first.

Instead of ya know, offering itself to Russia like a $3 whore to her pimp.

[United Marxist Nations]

It would've, if Crimea had gone through a process of actually gaining internationally recognized independence first.

Instead of ya know, offering itself to Russia like a $3 whore to her pimp.

The Ukrainian government unconstitutionally ejected the legitimately elected president.

[Costa Fierro]

2) The Communist Party of Ukraine was not acting violently or against the law, yet many Maideners still want it banned.

Source.

Yet, they have taken little action to ban Svoboda or the Right Sector, which have acted violently.

Svoboda has not acted violently and none of those actions were sanctioned with the support of Euromaidan nor the Ukrainian government. What part of this do you not understand?

[United Marxist Nations]

2) The Communist Party of Ukraine was not acting violently or against the law, yet many Maideners still want it banned.

1) Source.

Yet, they have taken little action to ban Svoboda or the Right Sector, which have acted violently.

2) Svoboda has not acted violently and none of those actions were sanctioned with the support of Euromaidan nor the Ukrainian government. What part of this do you not understand?

1) There's no claim that it was. If you think it was, source that it was.

2) The Right Sector has, and it doesn't need to be sanctioned as long as it is tolerated.

[United States of PA]

It would've, if Crimea had gone through a process of actually gaining internationally recognized independence first.

Instead of ya know, offering itself to Russia like a $3 whore to her pimp.

The Ukrainian government unconstitutionally ejected the legitimately elected president.

And that has what to do exactly with Crimea going through official channels to gain its independence, and if it than wanted to too to whore itself out to Russia?

Zip.

[United Marxist Nations]

The Ukrainian government unconstitutionally ejected the legitimately elected president.

And that has what to do exactly with Crimea going through official channels to gain its independence, and if it than wanted to too to whore itself out to Russia?

Zip.

That Crimea has no obligation to an illegitimate government.

[Costa Fierro]

1) There's no claim that it was. If you think it was, source that it was.

So, you're saying that the Euromaidaners want the CPU banned is a load of shit?

The Right Sector has, and it doesn't need to be sanctioned as long as it is tolerated.

Wait, what? The fuck are you nattering on about?

[United Marxist Nations]

1) There's no claim that it was. If you think it was, source that it was.

1) So, you're saying that the Euromaidaners want the CPU banned is a load of shit?

The Right Sector has, and it doesn't need to be sanctioned as long as it is tolerated.

2) Wait, what? The fuck are you nattering on about?

1) They want the CPU banned because it didn't support the Maiden.

2) The First Secretary of the Lvov Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine was brutally attacked by members of the Right Sector, and the Ukrainian government has, so far, done nothing to go after the group for it. He is only one of what I suspect are several.

[Rio Cana]

Last year some nationalist groups did demand banning of some symbols. Chances are the party would be next.
Read this - http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politic ... mbols.html

[United Marxist Nations]

An article about the Right Sector's abuses in Ukraine (well, some of the article is): http://orientalreview.org/2014/04/09/a- ... n-ukraine/

[Beta Test]

An article about the Right Sector's abuses in Ukraine (well, some of the article is): http://orientalreview.org/2014/04/09/a- ... n-ukraine/

I find it interesting that your really against about the Right Sector, but don't seem at all concerned about the tortures, kidnappings and murders committed by the pro-Russian militia.

[United Marxist Nations]

An article about the Right Sector's abuses in Ukraine (well, some of the article is): http://orientalreview.org/2014/04/09/a- ... n-ukraine/

I find it interesting that your really against about the Right Sector, but don't seem at all concerned about the tortures, kidnappings and murders committed by the pro-Russian militia.

I'd need to see more information about them too, and if they have been doing them, then I greatly condemn it, and am disappointed at the behavior of them. However, you must understand why it greatly upsets me that my comrades in the CPU were attacked.

[Costa Fierro]

1) They want the CPU banned because it didn't support the Maiden.

So source it then.

2) The First Secretary of the Lvov Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine was brutally attacked by members of the Right Sector, and the Ukrainian government has, so far, done nothing to go after the group for it. He is only one of what I suspect are several.

Considering the Euromaidan opposition also have blood on their hands, I don't think your argument has a leg to stand on. Am I saying it's OK? No. Torture and killing is reprehensible. But at the same time, supporting one side over the other side when the side you support is doing exactly the same thing is stupid.

[Beta Test]

I find it interesting that your really against about the Right Sector, but don't seem at all concerned about the tortures, kidnappings and murders committed by the pro-Russian militia.

I'd need to see more information about them too, and if they have been doing them, then I greatly condemn it, and am disappointed at the behavior of them. However, you must understand why it greatly upsets me that my comrades in the CPU were attacked.

I can understand why a communist would be angered by attacks on fellow communists. But this, In my opinion, isn't an entirely logical reason to support another faction of people who are doing the same to other people.