Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Shofercia]

This is is a (very low quality) photo of today's vote on the UN resolution to condemn the Russian annexation of Crimea as illegal.

(Image)

The 11 countries who have voted against the resolution are:

- Russia
- Sudan
- Cuba
- Venezuela
- Bolivia
- North Korea
- Zimbabwe
- Syria
- Armenia
- Belarus
- Nicaragua

What a lovely bunch!

As opposed to:

- Azerbaijan
- Bahrain
- Colombia
- DRC
- Georgia
- Haiti
- Honduras
- Indonesia
- Kuwait
- Libya
- Maldives
- Nigeria
- Qatar
- Saudi Arabia
- Somalia

Seems to me that countries vote on the basis of their very own self-interest, and not on the basis of human rights, unless you want to argue that Ukraine is the divisive issue for the DRC, something that Haiti simply cannot live without, and most definitely not a thank you from the government of Honduras to America for the tacit support of overthrowing Zelaya. Speaking of Human Rights, has ethnic cleansing been legalized, or is that just the case in Libya? Of course one wonders what America's reaction would've been, if the Russians put down the Maidan Protests, just like Saudis put down the anti-Bahrain Protests...

[Shofercia]

Did an analysis of the votes. By Region: Yes/Abstain/Left/No/Total

Europe: 42/0/2/3/47

Remarkable show of unity from Europe. Good to see whom Europe will side with in a confrontation. Time to shift towards Asia:

Asia: 14/15/11/2/42

Interesting, especially since the "yes" votes came either from pro-US states, or states reliant on America's protection, (South Korea, Japan,) or from states that don't exactly have much actual say. For instance, I doubt that Bhutan is going to go against the wishes of China and India and expect protection. Same can be said about Qatar, Bahrain, Maldives, Kuwait, they're not regional hegemons. The biggies of Asia, (again with the SK/Japan exception,) pretty much abstained or left. Not sure if Saudia Arabia can be counted as a unified Asian Front.

Africa: 19/27/6/2/54

Again, here over half abstained or left. And I'm not seeing any heavyweights going for yes, unless you consider DRC a heavyweight.

Oceania: 9/2/3/0/14

Not really relevant, unless it comes to vote tallies, but amusing nonetheless. Thus far we're only seeing majorities in Europe and Oceania.

Americas: 16/14/2/4/36

Still not a majority. The breakdown here isn't all that surprising either, people vote based on regional loyalties. The Yessers consisted of NAFTA, (shocker,) Chile/Columbia/Peru, island of Hispaniola, Costa Rica/Honduras/Panama and some small island nations.

Only thing I was surprised by was the unity of Europe, but then again, better to fully view that path now, than later.

Speaking of Asia, (excluding the Caucasian States)

Central Asia: In a remarkable show of unity, all abstained or left
East Asia: NK said "no", China abstained, Japan/SK said "yes"
Former British India: the biggies, such as India/Pakistan/Bangaldesh, abstained, as did a few others, but such "powerhouses" as Bhutan & Maldives said "yes" so Russia should be terrified...
Middle East: Iraq abstained, in a rare show of unity, both Iran and Israel left, along with some others, whereas the Saudi sector was there to vote "yes", because they deeply care about Human Rights, (women aren't human,) and territorial integrity, (unless we're talking about Syria).
ASEAN: 5 said yes, 5 abstained so again, not exactly unified.

[Sbrachvinkistan]

Does anyone know anything about Poroshenko? I've seen some opinion polls for the election and he seems to have a sizeable chunk of the voters.

[Geilinor]

Does anyone know anything about Poroshenko? I've seen some opinion polls for the election and he seems to have a sizeable chunk of the voters.

Petro Poroshenko, former member of the Azarov cabinet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Poroshenko

[Shofercia]

Does anyone know anything about Poroshenko? I've seen some opinion polls for the election and he seems to have a sizeable chunk of the voters.

Pro Western Oligarch. Amassed fortune in the 1990s, like most Oligarchs did. Owns television channel. Later moved on to become Orange Revolutionary. Served as Minister of Trade and Economic Development, and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Probably gets most of his support from the pro Western Oligarchs of Ukraine. Massively funded Maidan, allegedly even once it turned violent.

[Sbrachvinkistan]

Does anyone know anything about Poroshenko? I've seen some opinion polls for the election and he seems to have a sizeable chunk of the voters.

Pro Western Oligarch. Amassed fortune in the 1990s, like most Oligarchs did. Owns television channel. Later moved on to become Orange Revolutionary. Served as Minister of Trade and Economic Development, and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Probably gets most of his support from the pro Western Oligarchs of Ukraine. Massively funded Maidan, allegedly even once it turned violent.

Sounds like a fun guy. If I had to guess, I would guess the reason he has the lead (according to the opinion polls) is his economic background which somehow makes him the savior the state needs to avert bankruptcy (probably not).I heard the party of regions have a new leader, yanukovych got disowned by his own colleagues?

[Geilinor]

Pro Western Oligarch. Amassed fortune in the 1990s, like most Oligarchs did. Owns television channel. Later moved on to become Orange Revolutionary. Served as Minister of Trade and Economic Development, and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Probably gets most of his support from the pro Western Oligarchs of Ukraine. Massively funded Maidan, allegedly even once it turned violent.

Sounds like a fun guy. If I had to guess, I would guess the reason he has the lead (according to the opinion polls) is his economic background which somehow makes him the savior the state needs to avert bankruptcy (probably not).I heard the party of regions have a new leader, yanukovych got disowned by his own colleagues?

Azarov has been leader of the party since 2010.

[Shofercia]

Why can't they make up their minds?

Because who's in power makes almost no difference for the average Ukrainian.

Their choice is between the corrupt plutocrats supported by Putin and the corrupt plutocrats supported by "the west." Neither group gives a rat's fart about average Ukrainians. So they're stuck in an endless loop of the grass being greener on the other side.

This ^

Now the tongue-in-cheek draft letter:

1. Thank You very much for Your efforts for making a neo-fascist revolt in
Ukraine possible. (We know that You and Your associates have spent a great
deal of money and efforts for doing this). By financing the efforts of
Ukrainian neo-fascists to overthrow the elected President of Ukraine — Mr.
Yanukovich — by force. By doing this, You and Your colleagues did a lot for
reviving Russian patriotic feelings, uniting all political forces in Russia,
moving forward the process of political and spiritual consolidation of the
diverse Russian society. Also, from the bottom of my heart, I would like to
express separate thanks for making me the undisputable leader of the
Russian-speaking world worldwide.

1. The neo-fascists jumped on board the revolution, they weren't the driving force. And once the dust settled and elections were held (fun fact: Ukrainian Russians are perfectly capable of voting), they would almost certainly have been booted back into minority opposition party status. I say would have, because Putin's pointless heavy-handedness and theatrics in Crimea will almost certainly fuel enough anti-Russia sentiment to give them far more power than they otherwise could have hoped for. Putin ironically has far more to gain from 'supporting a neo-fascist revolution' than anyone in the west, because it makes for convenient justification for his actions.

As for 'undisputed leader of Russian-speakers world wide'. And? That's really only relevant in the former Soviet states. There aren't a lot of other places with such major concentrations of Russian speakers, and where they are, Russia isn't really in a position to do anything.

I wasn't the one who wrote the letter. Prior to the neo-fascists, the protests were peaceful. Afterwards, they turned violent. And if you have Poroshenko vs Tihipko, doesn't matter how you vote, the average Ukrainian is going to be f-u-c-k-e-d. Although Poroshenko might go for minority oppression. And the elections in Ukraine weren't held. They're scheduled for May. In the meantime, the new government signed IMF terms, which aren't favored in the East.

2. Thank You very much for elevating my political rating inside Russia to
the highest point in the recent history. Currently my political rating among
Russian voters has jumped to the level of nearly 70%.

Yes, because lord knows up until now it's been so difficult for Putin to do what he wants in Russia.

Putin's stance on the Serdykov's Scandal wasn't popular. Now, for all related purposes, it's ancient history. Granted, that's the most obvious example, but there are numerous other examples.

3. Special thanks for demonstrating to me and to the Russian people, that
You — as well as — the United States political elite simply does not want
to develop real partnership relations with the new Russia in resolving
mutually important global and regional problems. Also, nether You, nor Your
esteemed colleagues have very superficial understanding of the political and
economic trends undergoing in the Russian Federation, Ukraine and some other
countries of the world. I would like to assure You, that such understanding
would help me a lot in my everyday work on forming the political and
economic strategy for development of my country Russia in the future. With
Your permission, we will try to use the situation to our advantage in
Europe, Asia, Latin America and other regions of the world.

Because nothing says 'real partnership relations' like flooding troops into a neighboring country for purposes of annexation and daring the West to do something about it.

That was in response to America's support for couping Yanukovich, which happened before Russia annexed Crimea.

4. Thank You very much for showing to me that European Union leadership and
the leading European countries do not have independent — from the United
States — foreign policy and geopolitical strategy. Also, I understood that You and nearly all European politicians are still preferring to stay under the convenient
intoxication of the medications developed and prescribed by the Cold War.

Lol, this entire 'crisis' happened because Putin longs for the good old days when Glorious USSR was the counterweight to the United States...but it's the EU that totally can't let go of the Cold War.

This entire crisis started with Western attempts to coup Yanukovich, and replace him with Yats, in combination with Ukraine's government being extremely inept.

5. Thanks a lot for pushing me to reorienting our foreign policy to Asia -
specifically to China and Japan. The leadership of these countries already
informed me that they are open for new mutually beneficial initiatives,
projects and strategic breakthroughs.

So which are we assuming is more likely here. That China will abandon all of it's own ambitions for influence and power in Asia and the Pacific in favor of Russia, or that Putin is going to be willing to play junior partner to China?

That Russians will now support Putin's Asian shift. That's a huge win for Putin. China and Russia don't have many conflicting issues. Territorial dispute has been solved. Where do China and Russia conflict? Thus far the major conflict is over gas prices. It's similar to a conflict over potash prices between Russia & Belarus. Is Russia junior partner to Belarus?

6. Thank You very much for providing to me an opportunity to show to all
countries which are not happy with the US policy in various regions of the
world that they can come to Russia and ask for help in defending their
political and economic interests often discriminated by the United States.
Because of Your help, they started to consider Russia and the second global
power slowly but surely climbing up to the world political stage. Many
thanks for showing to everyone that we have moved into a bipolar world.

I'm sure China will be pleased to know that they're just a satellite of Russia in the new bipolar world. As will India no doubt.

Again, I didn't write the letter, so the part about bipolar World is not something I support. I prefer, and I've stated this countless times, a multi-polar World.

7. I am really grateful for providing me with additional incentives for
speed up our economic development, multiply our efforts for building a
diversified, modern and self-reliable economy, especially agriculture and
high tech. By the way, leaders of our military industrial complex asked me
to express to You their special appreciation and thanks. Now they will be
developing new weapon system with the increased dedication and efforts.

"I just didn't really think things like "the economy" or "the military" were actually important until now!"

Did you miss the words increased dedication? That doesn't mean that they weren't important. That means that Putin can now push for more luxury taxes to be geared towards defense production. Hence the term, increased dedication.

8. Thank You very much for forcing me and my government — including
legislature — to develop and adopt in a real speedy way the set of laws for
accepting new countries and territories into the Russian Federation. I have
been searching for a resolution of this problem for some time, but only Your
efforts in Ukraine helped me to finalize and successfully test these legal
techniques. It has worked perfectly with Crimea Republic and I can assure
You, that we will be using this approach many times in the near future.
Please do not hesitate to call me if You have the similar ideas and plans
for other neighboring countries.

The only options for further expansion Russia has are either all ready friendly to Russia, or actually under the umbrella of NATO and the EU. So are we assuming that they're going to fuck over their allies (Might make that bit in number 6 about how other nations now realize they can look to Russia for protection and support a bit dubious), or are they going to gamble that the West won't actually do anything in response to an effective declaration of war?

Just off the top of my head, Russia can go ahead and annex TransDneistr and South Ossetia.

9. Thank You very much for issuing an Executive Order for blocking foreign
bank account and property of the Russian officials. This measure is very
timely. It will help me to finalize the implementation of my Order, which
require all Russian officials and politicians to close their foreign bank
accounts and do not have any real estate abroad.

I'm sure this will devastate all those countries whose economies are completely dependent on visiting Russian oligarchs...

Not visiting. Investing in. Therein lies the difference. Russian investments abroad are massive, such as Prokhorov's purchase of Brooklyn Nets, Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea, etc.

10. And finally, I would like to thank You separately for making all, so
called “liberal” political forces in Russia very unpopular among Russian
voters. The reason for such drop in their popularity is very simple -
differently from 90 percent of the Russian population, they did not support
me in accepting Crimea Republic back to Russia after 60 years of separation
from its motherland. As the result, my political allies and myself will be
winning all elections for years to come.

Because up until now the opposition in Russia has totally been a powerful and popular force that tripped up Putin at every turn.

It's not really 'satire' when it's entire basis is essentially , "Everything that can possibly go right will play out absolutely perfectly for Russia, everything that can possibly go wrong will play out disastrously for the US and the West.". Along with a lot of pretending like Putin was totally about to get thrown out of Russia at any minute until the US suddenly reversed his fortunes.

Again, that part I might disagree with. I didn't write the letter.

[Tahar Joblis]

This entire crisis started with Western attempts to coup Yanukovich, and replace him with Yats, in combination with Ukraine's government being extremely inept.

No. This crisis started with domestic unrest in response to Yanukovich screwing up. It wasn't even entirely clear who would end up leading the pro tem government, and it remains unclear who will win the election promptly scheduled to democratically elect Yanukovich's ultimate replacement.

Did Yanukovich get deposed? Yes, as the result of a large public uprising, and Yanukovich has no intention of participating further in the democratic process and standing for election, because he would lose horribly.

Unlike the staged referendum in Crimea, moreover, the election will be conducted under close supervision by OSCE observers, and any significant allegations of impropriety will doubtless result in holding the election over again.

[Luziyca]

I heard that the Russians set up a federal district in the peninsula comprising of Crimea and Sevastopol. Putin appointed Oleg Belavinstev as presidential envoy. A week ago, actually. Can't wait to see what economic region they get assigned to.

[Gravlen]

This entire crisis started with Western attempts to coup Yanukovich, and replace him with Yats, in combination with Ukraine's government being extremely inept.

No. This crisis started with domestic unrest in response to Yanukovich screwing up. It wasn't even entirely clear who would end up leading the pro tem government, and it remains unclear who will win the election promptly scheduled to democratically elect Yanukovich's ultimate replacement.

Did Yanukovich get deposed? Yes, as the result of a large public uprising, and Yanukovich has no intention of participating further in the democratic process and standing for election, because he would lose horribly.

Unlike the staged referendum in Crimea, moreover, the election will be conducted under close supervision by OSCE observers, and any significant allegations of impropriety will doubtless result in holding the election over again.

Also, this yet again illustrates how the request for OSCE observers in Crimea was nothing more than an attempt at creating an illusion of legitimacy for the referendum. OSCE observers are now preparing to be deployed to Ukraine, and will be there both before, during and after the election. They will also be present to observe the counting of the votes.

[Beta Test]

100,000 Russian troops massing on the border! We're doomed!

[Greater Beggnig]

100,000 Russian troops massing on the border! We're doomed!

Ukraine has not yet perished!

[Regnum Dominae]

100,000 Russian troops massing on the border! We're doomed!

Nope, totally not preparing for an invasion.

[Baltenstein]

100,000 Russian troops massing on the border! We're doomed!

Nope, totally not preparing for an invasion.

I don't think there are serious plans for any short-term invasion. It's more Mafia posturing in the "shame if something happened" sense. However, what could happen is that, after the Ukrainian parliamentary elections result in the victory of a pro-Western president, Russia will quadruple its efforts to intensify Eastern Ukrainian separatism and tumoil.

[Greater Beggnig]

Nope, totally not preparing for an invasion.

I don't think there are serious plans for any short-term invasion. It's more Mafia posturing in the "shame if something happened" sense. However, what could happen is that, after the Ukrainian parliamentary elections result in the victory of a pro-Western president, Russia will quadruple its efforts to intensify Eastern Ukrainian separatism and tumoil.

Who knows? This is Russia after all.

[Oaledonia]

This is is a (very low quality) photo of today's vote on the UN resolution to condemn the Russian annexation of Crimea as illegal.

(Image)

The 11 countries who have voted against the resolution are:

- Russia
- Sudan
- Cuba
- Venezuela
- Bolivia
- North Korea
- Zimbabwe
- Syria
- Armenia
- Belarus
- Nicaragua

What a lovely bunch!

To be fair, North Korea votes against basically everything.

[Greed and Death]

So breaking news, former President of the Ukraine is calling for independence referendums for every region of the Ukraine and some 50,000 to 80,000 Russian troops are on the border of Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/2 ... _ref=world

[Baltenstein]

So breaking news, former President of the Ukraine is calling for independence referendums for every region of the Ukraine and some 50,000 to 80,000 Russian troops are on the border of Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/2 ... _ref=world

It's okay, Yanu, you've had your 2 minutes spotlight per week. Come back next week with more irrelevant statements that nobody will care about.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

So breaking news, former President of the Ukraine is calling for independence referendums for every region of the Ukraine and some 50,000 to 80,000 Russian troops are on the border of Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/2 ... _ref=world

Those 50,000+ troops are just there doing their Spring Drills. Everyone needs to stop getting hysterical.

[Aeken]

Russia should just invade and get this over with.

[Tahar Joblis]

So breaking news, former President of the Ukraine is calling for independence referendums for every region of the Ukraine and some 50,000 to 80,000 Russian troops are on the border of Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/2 ... _ref=world

It's okay, Yanu, you've had your 2 minutes spotlight per week. Come back next week with more irrelevant statements that nobody will care about.

It's not irrelevant. It's a signal that Putin is going to repeat the same routine he used in Crimea.

Yanukovich is at this point Putin's creature. He lost his independent political career when he fled the Ukraine for Russia. Putin has a political use for him - the deposed president is worth a certain amount of political capital.

[Greed and Death]

It's okay, Yanu, you've had your 2 minutes spotlight per week. Come back next week with more irrelevant statements that nobody will care about.

It's not irrelevant. It's a signal that Putin is going to repeat the same routine he used in Crimea.

Yanukovich is at this point Putin's creature. He lost his independent political career when he fled the Ukraine for Russia. Putin has a political use for him - the deposed president is worth a certain amount of political capital.

Russia may even go so far as to take all of the Ukraine.

[European Socialist Republic]

Russia should just invade surrender unconditionally and get this over with.

Fixed.

[Dear Leader Kim Jong-Un]

It's not irrelevant. It's a signal that Putin is going to repeat the same routine he used in Crimea.

Yanukovich is at this point Putin's creature. He lost his independent political career when he fled the Ukraine for Russia. Putin has a political use for him - the deposed president is worth a certain amount of political capital.

Russia may even go so far as to take all of the Ukraine.

do you think russia will be punished for that or no?