Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Tahar Joblis]

Sure, at this point it does not look as something that would happened in near future. But what if Obama continues to let Putin annexing territories and resources, maybe Russia will come to that point that it will be stronger than America.

There's really no where else that Putin could really expand outside of Ukraine now, or in the foreseeable future. The people who border him are either super-Russia-friends, or are in NATO or the EU, and it would be suicide for him to mess with them.

Adjacent to Russia + Ukraine, not in EU, not in NATO:

• Kazakhstan (presently buddy-buddy with Russia)
• Belarus (likewise)
• Georgia (see recent war with Russia)
• Azerbaijan (on very bad terms with neighbor Armenia, which is, unlike Azerbaijan, in Russia's Customs Union, and which is making noises about getting closer to NATO)
• Moldova (very nervous)
• China (nuclear power)
• North Korea (nuclear power, heavily militarized, ruled by divine-right monarch, invading would require permission from China, no native Russian population)
• Mongolia (not worried)

Of course, if Putin thinks that NATO will just back down after having done so in Georgia and Ukraine, I would not put it past him to try putting it to the test with the Baltic states, but Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Moldova have good reason to be nervous.

[Baltenstein]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

With Russian BTRs and equipment they bought from the corner store, of course.

But your concern about Russia is misplaced. I mean Putin? Gone? Yeah, like that's going to happen. He'll just transfer the authority of the Presidency back to the Prime Ministership for one Presidential term and then come back.

Putin's authority in Russian governance is much like Russia's opinion about their military in former Soviet Republics.
"Don't call it a comeback, I been here for years
Rocking my peers and putting suckas in fear,
Making the tears run down like a mon-SOON,
listen to the guns go BOOM!"

[Soviet Russia Republic]

But your concern about Russia is misplaced. I mean Putin? Gone? Yeah, like that's going to happen.

It is inevitable.

[Baltenstein]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

With Russian BTRs and equipment they bought from the corner store, of course.

But your concern about Russia is misplaced. I mean Putin? Gone? Yeah, like that's going to happen. He'll just transfer the authority of the Presidency back to the Prime Ministership for one Presidential term and then come back.

Even Putin will die from natural causes one day.

Unless the secret Russian cyborg project is successful and he becomes Eternal Robo-Czar of all the Russias, Vladitron I.

[Myrensis]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

There's no real reason to think that Lukashenko or Nazarbayev will be followed by anyone other than handpicked successors who will continue the same policies.

[Occupied Deutschland]

With Russian BTRs and equipment they bought from the corner store, of course.

But your concern about Russia is misplaced. I mean Putin? Gone? Yeah, like that's going to happen. He'll just transfer the authority of the Presidency back to the Prime Ministership for one Presidential term and then come back.

Even Putin will die from natural causes one day.

Unless the secret Russian cyborg project is successful and he becomes Eternal Robo-Czar of all the Russias, Vladitron I.

MechaPutin.

Yet more Nazi parallels coming from Putin. *nod*

[Baltenstein]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

There's no real reason to think that Lukashenko or Nazarbayev will be followed by anyone other than handpicked successors who will continue the same policies.

A tyrant's death is very often followed by considerable tumoil and the collapse of his regime, due to the absence of democratic checks and balances, turf wars between the various rival power groups, and a more often than not pretty crappy economy.

The latter is more true for Belarus than it is for Kazakhstan.

[Greed and Death]

Kazakhstan and Belarus may be on good terms with Russia now, but so was Ukraine under Kuchma and Yanukovich. Nobody knows where the two countries will be headed once their respective sultans, uh, presidents are gone. Then again, nobody knows what will become of Russia once Putin is gone either. And they both have a considerable Russian population .which could spontaneously form self-defense squads.

There's no real reason to think that Lukashenko or Nazarbayev will be followed by anyone other than handpicked successors who will continue the same policies.

Generally handpicked successors show less bravado then who they replaced.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

There's really no where else that Putin could really expand outside of Ukraine now, or in the foreseeable future. The people who border him are either super-Russia-friends, or are in NATO or the EU, and it would be suicide for him to mess with them.

Adjacent to Russia + Ukraine, not in EU, not in NATO:

• Kazakhstan (presently buddy-buddy with Russia)
• Belarus (likewise)
• Georgia (see recent war with Russia)
• Azerbaijan (on very bad terms with neighbor Armenia, which is, unlike Azerbaijan, in Russia's Customs Union, and which is making noises about getting closer to NATO)
• Moldova (very nervous)
• China (nuclear power)
• North Korea (nuclear power, heavily militarized, ruled by divine-right monarch, invading would require permission from China, no native Russian population)
• Mongolia (not worried)

Of course, if Putin thinks that NATO will just back down after having done so in Georgia and Ukraine, I would not put it past him to try putting it to the test with the Baltic states, but Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Moldova have good reason to be nervous.

Moldova is not adjacent to Russia, and we've already been over why they're very unlikely to be the subject of an invasion.

If/When Ukraine falls, then Moldova can worry. Until then, I don't think a country with the strategic value of a whelk, who's economy is centered around sunflowers and insulated wire, has to worry too much.

[Tahar Joblis]

Adjacent to Russia + Ukraine, not in EU, not in NATO:

• Kazakhstan (presently buddy-buddy with Russia)
• Belarus (likewise)
• Georgia (see recent war with Russia)
• Azerbaijan (on very bad terms with neighbor Armenia, which is, unlike Azerbaijan, in Russia's Customs Union, and which is making noises about getting closer to NATO)
• Moldova (very nervous)
• China (nuclear power)
• North Korea (nuclear power, heavily militarized, ruled by divine-right monarch, invading would require permission from China, no native Russian population)
• Mongolia (not worried)

Of course, if Putin thinks that NATO will just back down after having done so in Georgia and Ukraine, I would not put it past him to try putting it to the test with the Baltic states, but Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Moldova have good reason to be nervous.

Moldova is not adjacent to Russia,

But shares a border with Ukrainian territory, which, as you may recall, Putin is in the process of invading various bits and pieces of, which may, in fact, not stop until he has seized substantially more of the country.

TGKoB had asserted that "There's really no where else that Putin could really expand outside of Ukraine now, or in the foreseeable future." I take that as contestable on the basis that if Putin does indeed take over the whole (or even a significantly larger part) of Ukraine, Moldova is likely to be next; and that both Georgia and Azerbaijan could also be subjected to similar annexations.

[Gravlen]

So NSers, what do you think Ukraine should do now based on the current situation?

Ukraine, as "the new government"? Well for starters they should:

1) Try to incorporate all political forces in the new government - yes, including from the East and pro-Russian ones, if they really want united country.

2) Try to rebuild working relationships with Russia, i.e.

- Cut all ties with "Svoboda" and "Right Sector" and dissolve all "militia" units, confiscate weapons from them.

Heh

[Palmyrene Empire]

Moldova is not adjacent to Russia,

But shares a border with Ukrainian territory, which, as you may recall, Putin is in the process of invading various bits and pieces of, which may, in fact, not stop until he has seized substantially more of the country.

TGKoB had asserted that "There's really no where else that Putin could really expand outside of Ukraine now, or in the foreseeable future." I take that as contestable on the basis that if Putin does indeed take over the whole (or even a significantly larger part) of Ukraine, Moldova is likely to be next; and that both Georgia and Azerbaijan could also be subjected to similar annexations.

So do you think this will happen? And if it does, do you think NATO will get involved?

[Aterna]

Attention to all concerned:

We are back. Our long term goal, as a people, is the return of all former Russian lands to the Soviet Union which we shall eventually be reviving. This includes not just Crimea and Transdniestra but also Hawaii, Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.

Further if our demands for constitutional reforms in Ukraine are not met, you should know that the Russian government is prepared to take certain actions which NATO and the US are totally powerless to prevent.


We suggest the British government not get any ideas of military involvement considering that our backfire bombers have been able to penetrate all the way through British air space while not a single british air craft has been able to enter Russian air space. It would after all, be ufortunate for them if the UK were to lose control of the North Sea oil fields.

Do not forget we have people in UK, US, and Canada that can make trouble should things escalate.

The EU and America should not forget that Russia has operational military bases in both Syria and Venezuela.

For three decades you have foolishly lived under the false assumption that Russian people were defeated impoverished nation. What you have seen in Crimea, Syria, and Georgia should shock back to the reality which is that Russia is still and always was a power to reckon with.

You need to realise that the reason your countries are limiting their response to whining and slap on the wrist sanctions is that both Europe and the US cannot stop the Russian armed forces steam rolling across Europe or America any time we choose to do so. This is has been greatly helped by your foolish military actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other parts of Africa where your strength was sapped by bogged down military operations that also wiped out your economies which are now so dependent on mother Russia that serious sanctions on Russia would destroy the economies of all Europe.

As the Americans say, you have check mated.

You're hilarious, darling .

The Russians sold Alaska to the United States-and as to those silly "claims", they where no more than fishing posts/trading posts: they were not that developed-besides, the Russians pretty much left on their own in North America.

Also, those "operations" the United States underwent gave that nation many veteran troops, information about insurgents and sabotage and all those good things, and a stockpile of war supplies.

Also, you are appear to be trolling. I want to stop short of actually calling you one, but if you are, please stop. If you are not...then my friend, please pick up a textbook written by a non-bias historian and start reading.

[Aterna]

I say let the Russians have Crimea. Ukraine isn't going to do anything more than it already is (lest it be curb-stomped by Russia), America isn't going to do anything (Because we're not willing, nobody here is going to want to die over some small spit of land in East Europe), and the EU, who is probably the only one outside of Ukraine that SHOULD do anything, won't, because they are not willing, for similar reasons as I listed for the U.S.

Overall, Crimea by itself isn't worth doing anything serious over, and nothing really suggests that Russia is going to do anything more, aside from some colourful imaginings on the part of some Cold-War wet dreamers.

Russians could claim one day Alaska since it was been "part of Russia before America even existed". I hope that to that stage never comes.

They won't. They sold Alaska to the Americans-so all we (the West) have to do is pull out the receipt.

[Aterna]

one day LA will be Russian territory and all LA people will speak Russian. Even the homeboys.

Did not the Russian first colonised California?

No. Spanish.

[Baltenstein]

Russians could claim one day Alaska since it was been "part of Russia before America even existed". I hope that to that stage never comes.

They won't. They sold Alaska to the Americans-so all we (the West) have to do is pull out the receipt.

Russia will never invade Alaska not because of any binding bilateral contracts (which Russia has already proven to not give two shits about) but because of superior American fire power.

[Aterna]

1. Because using "big boy words" is a great way to forward your opinion.

2.

3. NC

4. NC

5. NC

6. NC

7. I love you too.

8. Oh, so now you are calling me "special"-as in mentally disabled? Wow, calling people names reveals a lot about your debate skills. Not trying to hurt ya, just pointing stuff out.

9. Given my history......what, my nation's founding? Our little war to prevent wayward capitalists from seizing our colony? That history? What does that have to do with anything?

My debate skills are fine. You're not worth the time and effort, because you have deliberately missed the point, several times.

[Greed and Death]

They won't. They sold Alaska to the Americans-so all we (the West) have to do is pull out the receipt.

Russia will never invade Alaska not because of any binding bilateral contracts (which Russia has already proven to not give two shits about) but because of superior American fire power.

Are you sure the Americans will risk nuclear war over Palinland ?

[Aterna]

They won't. They sold Alaska to the Americans-so all we (the West) have to do is pull out the receipt.

Russia will never invade Alaska not because of any binding bilateral contracts (which Russia has already proven to not give two shits about) but because of superior American fire power.

....That can help....

[Pilotto]

Russia will never invade Alaska not because of any binding bilateral contracts (which Russia has already proven to not give two shits about) but because of superior American fire power.

Are you sure the Americans will risk nuclear war over Palinland ?

Any Russian incursions into Alaska will most certainly not be met with the same appeasement that Putin has enjoyed in Ukraine.

[Greed and Death]

Did not the Russian first colonised California?

No. Spanish.

The Russians did have a Spot in California, Fort Ross.
Using Putin's understanding of International law San Francisco is Russian Territory.

Some gay people or going to be might upset tomorrow.

[Baltenstein]

No. Spanish.

The Russians did have a Spot in California, Fort Ross.
Using Putin's understanding of International law

Using Putin's understanding of international law, Russian citizens/ethnic Russians abroad pose a considerable security risk for their countries of residence. Countries should therefore think twice before handing them out Visas.

[The blood ravens]

Russia will never invade Alaska not because of any binding bilateral contracts (which Russia has already proven to not give two shits about) but because of superior American fire power.

Are you sure the Americans will risk nuclear war over Palinland ?

Alaska is rich in natural resources.

America will not just roll over if Russia tries to invade.

Invading Alaska would be a terrible idea on so many levels.

[Aterna]

No. Spanish.

The Russians did have a Spot in California, Fort Ross.
Using Putin's understanding of International law San Francisco is Russian Territory.

Some gay people or going to be might upset tomorrow.

They did, but the first colonizers were the Spanish.