Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Occupied Deutschland]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-russia-novoazovsk-crimea.html
Looks like it finally happened.

Anyone know if NATO is going to do anything?

Write a very stern letter poking fun at Putin's mother.

"Premier Vladimir, I have here a message from the French Prime Minister!"

Of course, that's about all he can do since the French government seems to be in a bit of a cock-up at the moment. Though the sentiment seems to be shared by a few others.

But yes, no NATO mobilization into Eastern Ukraine.
Besides, even if there were they wouldn't be NATO soldiers. They'd be 'local Ukrainian self-defense forces'.

[The New Lowlands]

Yeah, sure, you know the drill, Westerners: "ZOMG! Ukraine can't lie to us! Everythin it says is a sacred truth! Russia always lie! Lets fane the fires of histerics! Aii!i!ii11!!1!111!!!"

Apparently the Americans are saying so, too;

“Russia is clearly trying to put its finger on the scale to tip things back in favor of its proxies,” said a senior American official. “Artillery barrages and other Russian military actions have taken their toll on the Ukrainian military.”

[Korva]

Yeah, sure, you know the drill, Westerners: "ZOMG! Ukraine can't lie to us! Everythin it says is a sacred truth! Russia always lie! Lets fane the fires of histerics! Aii!i!ii11!!1!111!!!"

Apparently the Americans are saying so, too;

“Russia is clearly trying to put its finger on the scale to tip things back in favor of its proxies,” said a senior American official. “Artillery barrages and other Russian military actions have taken their toll on the Ukrainian military.”

Lies from decadent Western imperialists comrade.

[Allanea]

So who is this 'senior American official'?

[The New Lowlands]

So who is this 'senior American official'?

The article's unfortunately vague on that.

[Allanea]

So who is this 'senior American official'?

The article's unfortunately vague on that.

There's probably a reason for this vagueness.

[Occupied Deutschland]

The article's unfortunately vague on that.

There's probably a reason for this vagueness.

Indeed. Either:
A) Jewluminnati NWO Eurofascist conspiracy to make Russia look bad using unattributed quotes by people.
OR
B) Said official only spoke on condition of anonymity, a common journalistic technique in the US (and other countries) that allows them to say something without it being tied to the government's position on the matter or get them in trouble for saying something.

I wonder which one is more likely?

[Estado Nacional]

So, Putin's finally invaded Ukraine?

[Beta Test]

So, Putin's finally invaded Ukraine?

Indeed it appears he no longer seems interested in hiding his aggression towards Ukraine. He's now openly sending military forces to the country.

[Brition]

I'm interested in following this crisis, so I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring in, so-to-speak, in this thread.

My general feeling is that the Ukrainian government is illegitimate, and has no right to deny its eastern citizens their native tongue (Russian). I praise Russia for supporting the self-defence of the Russian speaking Ukrainian easterners, however I am starting to feel as though the Russians are becoming belligerent in regards to the Ukrainian border.

I strongly condemn the annexation of Crimea, as a flagrant violation of Russia's legal commitments to the denuclearization treaty.

I would like to see the west and Russia put pressure on the Ukrainian government to abandon the anti-Russian policies, followed by the repatriation of Crimea into the Ukrainian state, whereupon elections should be held for all of Ukraine's government and legislative posts. I would additionally imagine that future attempts at reconciliation would involve devolved power to Russian-speaking civil authorities in Donetsk, Lugansk, and Crimea. To pacify the international situation, I would urge Russia to meet its legal commitments to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and urge a newly elected Ukrainian government to extend the lease of the land to Russia's black sea fleet base in Sevastopol.

[Allanea]

There's probably a reason for this vagueness.

Indeed. Either:
A) Jewluminnati NWO Eurofascist conspiracy to make Russia look bad using unattributed quotes by people.
OR
B) Said official only spoke on condition of anonymity, a common journalistic technique in the US (and other countries) that allows them to say something without it being tied to the government's position on the matter or get them in trouble for saying something.

I wonder which one is more likely?

Or possibly an official said something they don't have 100% proof of and they don't want to get in trouble if turns out to be wrong.

Or possibly the official is not really "senior".

Or possibly the reporter made it up for drama and headlines.

All of the above can happen.

As far as I'm concerned, and I've stated it it many times: nothing attributed to an "anonymous source" can be trusted unless it's accompanied by elaborate proof. Sometimes anonymous source stuff turns out to be true, oftentimes it is exaggerated.

[Brition]

As far as I'm concerned, and I've stated it it many times: nothing attributed to an "anonymous source" can be trusted unless it's accompanied by elaborate proof. Sometimes anonymous source stuff turns out to be true, oftentimes it is exaggerated.

I agree.

[Lemanrussland]

As far as I'm concerned, and I've stated it it many times: nothing attributed to an "anonymous source" can be trusted unless it's accompanied by elaborate proof. Sometimes anonymous source stuff turns out to be true, oftentimes it is exaggerated.

I agree.

You just need to take such comments with a grain of salt.

Actually, you should probably take everything with a grain of salt, whether the person delivering the information is anonymous or not.

[Brition]

I agree.

You just need to take such comments with a grain of salt.

Actually, you should probably take everything with a grain of salt, whether the person delivering the information is anonymous or not.

It's the best way to be!

[The Lone Alliance]

Well now that it's proven that Ukraine is fighting the Russian Army, the fact that they still have troops left is a surprise in itself.

Oh, what a lame, lame excuse!

I thought you'd take it as a compliment.

What, did they fougth "against Russian Army" since April? Or, what it was Russian saboteurs entrenched in the Ukrainian beuracracy that denied front-line troops the essential equipment? It was Russian agents in the Ukrainian top brass that lined their pockets before and stealing money right now?

Gee, what an enormous grip does Russia have over oh so "independent" Ukraine!

Nothing you said, answers the question on where the rebels are getting so much of their equipment.

If there's a lack of front line equipment, where are the rebels getting all these wonderful toys? They can't capture what isn't there, so obviously they must be getting it from somewhere else... like the people right across the border.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-russia-novoazovsk-crimea.html
Looks like it finally happened.

Anyone know if NATO is going to do anything?

Yeah, sure, you know the drill, Westerners: "ZOMG! Ukraine can't lie to us! Everythin it says is a sacred truth! Russia always lie! Lets fane the fires of histerics! Aii!i!ii11!!1!111!!!"

Oh stuff it already. No one believes a word you're saying.

[Brition]

-snip-.

Your views on this crisis seem different to mine, so I would like the chance to discuss it with you. Have you read my initial post?

[Costa Fierro]

So...Russia has gone full retard and invaded Ukraine? Why is this not bigger news?

[Allanea]

Because it appears Russia is invading only with small military units that are mixed in with the rebels, rather than carrying out a full-scale invasion.

[Germanic Templars]

So...Russia has gone full retard and invaded Ukraine? Why is this not bigger news?

Because it this not new. That is my guess at this though. Or that people are more interested about Furgeson and the issue in the Middle East with IS(IS/IL) and all. Cause f*ck Ukraine, that news as so February to July.

[Costa Fierro]

Because it appears Russia is invading only with small military units that are mixed in with the rebels, rather than carrying out a full-scale invasion.

So Russia is doing what everyone in the West pretty much knew was happening already? That explains it.

[Estado Nacional]

So...Russia has gone full retard and invaded Ukraine? Why is this not bigger news?

Most people stopped caring a while ago.

[Gravlen]

Because it appears Russia is invading only with small military units that are mixed in with the rebels, rather than carrying out a full-scale invasion.

So Russia is doing what everyone in the West pretty much knew was happening already? That explains it.

A different perspective:

Getting Russia to agree to a peace deal on Ukraine requires lots of careful diplomacy, and that means that no one wants to formally acknowledge Russia's invasion of Ukraine, even though Russia is definitely invading Ukraine right now.

[Allanea]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95325.html

[Lemanrussland]

Because it appears Russia is invading only with small military units that are mixed in with the rebels, rather than carrying out a full-scale invasion.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are Russian intelligence agents, military instructors and advisors in the Donbass right now.

The Ukranians are basically accusing the Russians of launching probing attacks along the border, the deepest apparently going to a depth of 30 km. I'm not so sure at the moment, but it seems many otherwise neutral nations (like Finland) have been convinced by satellite images collected by the US, which purportedly show Russian SPHs crossing the border and setting up firing positions in Ukraine, then going back across the border the next day.

[Costa Fierro]

Well, it's pretty well known that there are Russian "volunteers" in Ukraine at the moment so it wouldn't surprise me if intelligence agents and advisers are present there. After all, don't some members of the Donbass leadership have ties to the FSB?