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Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:11 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Pingxiang wrote:China has not been sitting on its hands since the 70's. The Japanese will be very surprised.

And Japan hasn't been sitting on their hands since the 70s either. Their entire defense revolves around keeping air control and anti-ship cruise missiles.

Pingxiang wrote:You put too much faith in Japan which has the world knows cannot even contain a power plant from contaminating Japan and the ocean various times over.
The entire pacific ocean is not going to die off from the reactor. Neither is all of Japan.

Pingxiang wrote:When it comes to those islands contested between China and Japan, it will be worked out diplomatically.

Why should anyone bother to give China what doesn't belong to them, especially when they're acting like total dicks and claiming lands no where near the border. Just because it has "China" in it doesn't mean China owns the entire sea.


Lyttenburgh wrote:*SNIP*

How much is Russia paying you?


I can bet he accepts only Vodkas.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:13 pm

Kouralia wrote:I saw TOS-1 launchers firing, and BTR-80s on BBC News as I walked out of work today, no-one's bombarded the eastern insurgents yet, have they?

I would hope they wouldn't use a TOS-1, not just because of how horrific it is to die from something like that but because then they couldn't identify if the bodies were Ukrainian citizens or not.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
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War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:16 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Kouralia wrote:I saw TOS-1 launchers firing, and BTR-80s on BBC News as I walked out of work today, no-one's bombarded the eastern insurgents yet, have they?

I would hope they wouldn't use a TOS-1, not just because of how horrific it is to die from something like that but because then they couldn't identify if the bodies were Ukrainian citizens or not.


They probably are, TOS have too large an area of effect to be used as precision arty, and of course they're not gonna risk killing pro-Russians.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:17 pm

bottompaged fack

Now, to the defectors affair.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-disbands-army-unit-fiasco-push-east-144943083.html

Ukraine on Thursday disbanded an army unit that lost six armoured vehicles to pro-Russian militants, as Kiev's military reeled from a disastrous attempt to oust separatists in its eastern regions.

"The 25th parachute brigade, members of which showed cowardice and gave up their weapons, will be demobilised and the guilty servicemen brought before court," acting President Oleksandr Turchynov told parliament.

Ukraine's enfeebled army suffered a major embarrassment Wednesday as a much-hyped "anti-terrorist" operation to force pro-Moscow protesters out of a string of eastern towns descended into humiliating farce when separatists seized six armoured personnel carriers and forced another mechanised column of troops to disarm.

Ukraine's defence ministry said in a statement Thursday that the column of armoured vehicles and soldiers blockaded a day earlier by pro-Russian activists in the town of Kramatorsk was returning to base after the tense stand-off.

The capitulation represents a serious blow to the fragile morale of Ukraine's embattled armed forces and Kiev's hopes of reimposing its authority over its industrial heartland.

High-level talks aimed at ending the escalating crisis involving the top diplomats of Russia, Ukraine, the United States and the European Union were being held in Geneva on Thursday.

Ukraine has accused the Kremlin of masterminding the unrest sweeping the east, allegations that Moscow has repeatedly denied.

Elsewhere in the region, Ukrainian national guard troops repelled an overnight attack on their base in the southeast city of Mariupol, killing three of the assailants and wounding 13, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said Thursday.

Around 300 people mounted the attack using guns and petrol bombs on the interior ministry troops, none of whom was hurt, Avakov said.


http://www.utro.ru/articles/2014/04/17/1189991.shtml

VDV Brigade of the Ukrainian Army that ended up being surrounded by civilians of Kramatorsk, opted not to assault further into the city. As a result, the brigade will be demobilized on orders of acting president, Aleksander Turchinov.

"25th separate VDV brigade, whose soldiers demonstrated cowardice and handed out their weapons will be disbanded. Cowards will answer before court" stated Turchinov according to RBK. According to Turchinov, he already handed all of the necessary paperwork to the ministry of defense and the [Svoboda led] general prosecutor's office.

Earlier, a few armored infantry vehicles failed to move into Krematorsk where they were ordered to conduct an "antiterrorist operation" due to the resistance of the "militia members" and ended up retreating to Pchelkino, on the ouskirts of the city. After this, the column was blocked by local civilians, some of whom allegedly wore masks.

According to the ministry of defense, the commander of Ukraine's VDV, Aleksander Svetz began negotiations with the civilians of Krematorsk. He was able to get the civilians to enabled to soldiers to exit peaceful, as long as they turned over the bullets and did not reload their weapons.

Since the start of the week, several cities in the Southeast of Ukraine are being subject to an "anti-terrorist operation" with the goal of pacifying those who support the Federalization of Ukraine, [Not independence! Federalization!] who captured several administrative buildings and asked for a democratic referendum.


I'd like to start off by saying that Shof, what you wrote here is a stinking pile of bullshit, overfull with appeals to emotion and unsubstantiated claims. This is perhaps one of the least thought of responses of yours.

Shofercia wrote:Turchinov's Government tells Ukrainian troops: "fire on civilians, or be court martialed!"


Yeah, except he didn't. I like how on the row immediately below you admit this is bullshit yet you decide to keep this as a catchy headline of sorts.

Not his exact words, but he did just threaten an entire brigade with court martial, all because they dared to not shoot at civilians without weapons. He's going after them for "cowardice" while hiding behind the backs of anyone who'll get in front of him:


No, this has nothing to do with it. Your claim that the Ukrainian military were ordered to fire on unarmed civilians is stinkier than an athlete's shoes after a 3 hour marathon, source it or it dies right here and now.

AFP/Yahoo wrote:separatists seized six armoured personnel carriers and forced another mechanised column of troops to disarm


Giving away military hardware and firearms to separatists (or civilians for that matter) will get you court martial'd (it's really fucking serious) in any self-respecting military and rightfully so. Denying this is just convenient ignorance and dishonesty on your part. Don't you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if Russians ceded APCs and weapons to Chechen insurgents? You don't comprehend the seriousness of this do you? Perhaps removing the bias goggles would help.

I'm fucking speechless. Despite the hell that they've been put through, by all sides, they don't want to secede, but they want more autonomy, so that they can topple the inept Oligarchs ruling them without intervention from Kiev. And for this act, for daring to live a better life as part of Ukraine and protesting by occupying buildings, the exact same thing that Maidaners claimed to do, these people are dubbed "terrorists!" Take a good look NSG, at these "terrorists"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhErv6Wujc

Those are the people that Turchinov wants to hand over to Svoboda on a silver platter. You shouldn't be supporting Kiev. You shouldn't be supporting Moscow. You shouldn't be supporting the Oligarchs. At this point, if you still give two shits about democracy, you should be supporting Federalization and amnesty. Amnesty for the brave soldiers who didn't fire at civilians. Amnesty for civilians that came out to speak with armed soldiers. Federalization, with the East as part of Ukraine, but without Western Oligarchs. That, BTW, is what has pricks like Kolomoiski and Taruta on edge, the same Kolomoisky who's a Western imposed Oligarch on Dnepropetrovsk, the same Kolomoisky who's now handing out bounties. Welcome to Russia of the 1990s, welcome to Oligarch Ukraine. Wake the fuck up people. These aren't fucking terrorists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmY

Edit, another source: http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/30280.html


I dropped a tear, I have to admit. Whatever you are, call your boss right now and tell him you quit, and become a full time politician. It'd be a shame to waste such great talent at spreading lies and appealing to emotion based on unsubstantiated claims.

Apparently not shooting at unarmed civilians = cowardice in the eyes of Kiev.


Right :roll:

I love how you try to paint this like the situation had a binary result - either the soldiers shot the civilians or did what they did. Of course you do, it's convenient after all.

One does not simply "surround and detain" soldiers like that. They let themselves be detained. BMDs are machines designed to go off road, through really crappy terrain, dense forests even. It's what they do. Block a road, it won't be a problem for them, they'll go around a block. Try and block roads inside cities even, there are few things separatists could crop up that a BMD won't go around, through or over. You do realize this is criminal behavior, it's called "false imprisonment" and the soldiers had every right to self-defense, including against such acts. As far as civilians spontaneously surrounding BMDs, I'm sorry, as a soldier you shouldn't let yourself be overrun, and even then, if they tried to get out of there peacefully and you jumped in front of their APCs I'm sorry to break it to you but you're the one in the wrong here. They have no obligation (and indeed, no right) whatsoever to succumb to mob rule.

Here, we'll do this: source the claim that they were ordered to fire on unarmed civilians, and you've won this argument.

EDIT: A local amusement.. what the fuck's up with this circus, what a disgrace.

EDIT 2: Link above, 3:55 - "..Ukrainians are still in possession of them, but they've already been surrounded by a crowd of pro-Russian protesters" - Yeah right, I'm sorry, this is utter and complete bullshit. For fuck's sake that's not even inside a city, they're sitting beside a railway , how can BMDs get overrun by unarmed civvies on foot is beyond me. You do realize that this simply does not happen unless the soldiers let it happen, do you?
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:33 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:I would hope they wouldn't use a TOS-1, not just because of how horrific it is to die from something like that but because then they couldn't identify if the bodies were Ukrainian citizens or not.


They probably are, TOS have too large an area of effect to be used as precision arty, and of course they're not gonna risk killing pro-Russians.
Though they would have the right to kill Russian spies.

And anyone who thinks the goal of Federalization is anything more than Russia gaining unofficial full control of East Ukraine is full of shit.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
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War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman

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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:42 pm

The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Alien Space Bats
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Re: Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

Postby Alien Space Bats » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:45 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Lyttenburgh wrote:*SNIP*

How much is Russia paying you?

Whatever it is, it's way too much.
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Beta Test
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Postby Beta Test » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:46 pm


Secretly, I'm sure Putin would love for that to happen, but realistically he can't find a single reason to justify it, so that most likely won't happen.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:47 pm

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:49 pm

Where were the government troops when armed protestors took over the government buildings in...Kiev?

There's a double standard here.
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:52 pm

Pope Joan wrote:Where were the government troops when armed protestors took over the government buildings in...Kiev?

There's a double standard here.


So your whole argument is a tu quoque (and a poor one at that) ?
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Lyttenburgh
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Postby Lyttenburgh » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:11 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Achievement Unlocked: Grandmaster at Strawman

Russia has its Gopniks too , I don't know what point you think you're making here.


How can't you understand, Newland Republica! Украина - Цэ ЦеЄуропа - Нi - Росія! (For those of you, who do not "робiт дэржавну мову Украiнi" - Ukraine is Europe! Not Russia!) In this and the previous theme discussion about the Ukraine's Crisis there were enormous amount of instances, when some users (quite unenlightened in "RE: Ukraine and Russia") immediately repeated cliche that "Western Ukraine is pro-European". Consider me outdated and naive, but for me "pro-European" means "supports all form of tolerance, Euro-integration and liberalism, multi-culturalism and EuropeanUnion institutions". While raguli from Lviv and environs (yeah, that fine fellows nearly universally supporitning Maydan and/or Right Sector) view "Ukranian EuroIntegration" something along the lines "You give us everything, and we retain all our nationalistic stuff. Plus - we don't want your regulations, customs, other people, laws, anti-nazi laws etc.".

Now, next. I didn't know that Scholmeria is your puppet and you are totally entitled to anwer on hirs behalf. But, oh, well...

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Where are you from, by the way?


How the fuck is this relevant at all? Where are YOU from?

Finland? Estonia?


:roll: Finns and Estonians r totes just a bunch of crazies who can't control their irrational ( :rofl: ) Russophobia so they can keep their "news" and opinions to themselves since they're by default poisoned by this rampant and irrational ( :clap: ) hate

Can you plox not into strawman anymore ?


Noooo.... Fiiiiiiiiins aaaaaaaand Eeeeeeestoooooniiiiiaaaaans aaaaaare nooooooooooot iiiiiiiiiiirrratiiiiiiiiiooooooonaaaaall. Iiiiiiiiiii haaaaaaaaave ooooooooooother reaaaaaaaaaasoooooons toooooo aaaaaaaaasssk :)

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
Oh, and Right Sector leader's name is Yarosh - he is also a candidate for President.


Source? And even if true this doesn't mean anything. Are you familiar with the "Rent is too damn high" dude who ran for mayor in NYC? :lol:


So - you don't know how how to use such Western invention as Google? Or Zarathustra forbids you from typing words "Yarosh" or "Ukraine's Candidates for president 2014"? Well, if the latter is the cas - I can't help you! I take other persons religious taboos seriously. 8)

You, good si user DnalweN acilbupeR called me "edgy" and other stuff. While it's actualy you who love to overuse punctuation marks without any reason:

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
??????????? wat the fuck is Russia doing over the Netherlands ???

Did Putin get drunk or what :lol:


14 "?" - it's abnormal. Everywhere.

Your unhealy love for words like "shit", sentences ending with exclamation marks and frequent use of really big letters when quoting someone - all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"

Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.
Last edited by Lyttenburgh on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Oaledonia
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Postby Oaledonia » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:19 pm

Lyttenburgh wrote: edgy buttheart 'murican teenager.

Isn't any better then you being an edgy teenage hipster who doesn't understand how 600 NATO troops is more then enough to shoo the wimpy Russian government away.
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:22 pm

Lyttenburgh wrote:snip


OK, wait just a bit.

Noooo.... Fiiiiiiiiins aaaaaaaand Eeeeeeestoooooniiiiiaaaaans aaaaaare nooooooooooot iiiiiiiiiiirrratiiiiiiiiiooooooonaaaaall. Iiiiiiiiiii haaaaaaaaave ooooooooooother reaaaaaaaaaasoooooons toooooo aaaaaaaaasssk :)


all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy buttheart 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the unaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"


Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.


I think we're done here.
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I award you no points, and have sent people to make sure your parents refrain from further breeding.
Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Yitzchak Winternitz
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Postby Yitzchak Winternitz » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Turchinov's Government tells Ukrainian troops: "fire on civilians, or be court martialed!"

Not his exact words, but he did just threaten an entire brigade with court martial, all because they dared to not shoot at civilians without weapons. He's going after them for "cowardice" while hiding behind the backs of anyone who'll get in front of him: http://www.utro.ru/articles/2014/04/17/1189991.shtml

Let's see how far Ukrainian defenders want to take their bullshit now.

Бригада ВДВ украинской армии, которая попала в окружение жителей Краматорска и не стала продвигаться вглубь города, будет расформирована по решению исполняющего обязанности президента Александра Турчинова.

"Двадцать пятая отдельная воздушно-десантная бригада, бойцы которой проявили трусость и сдали оружие, будет расформирована. Виновные в трусости военные будут отвечать перед судом", - цитирует РБК выступление и.о. главы государства в ходе заседания Верховной рады. По словам Турчинова, он уже дал все необходимые поручения Министерству обороны и Генеральной прокуратуре страны.

Накануне несколько бронетранспортеров, находящихся в подчинении Минобороны, не сумели продвинуться вглубь Краматорска, в котором должны были участвовать в "антитеррористической спецоперации", из-за противодействия членов "народного ополчения" и вынуждены были отойти к поселку Пчелкино, на окраину города. После этого бронетехника была заблокирована местными жителями, среди которых якобы присутствовали люди в масках.

По данным военного ведомства, в переговоры с протестующими вступил командующий высокомобильными десантными войсками Украины Александр Швец. Он достиг соглашения о выходе солдат из окружения с личным оружием и на штатной технике. При этом с автоматов бойцов были сняты затворы в качестве гарантии того, что огонь открыт не будет.

С начала текущей недели в нескольких городах юго-восточной части Украины проходит "антитеррористическая спецоперация" с целью усмирения сторонников федерализации страны, захвативших несколько административных зданий и требующих проведения референдума.


VDV Brigade of the Ukrainian Army that ended up being surrounded by civilians of Kramatorsk, opted not to assault further into the city. As a result, the brigade will be demobilized on orders of acting president, Aleksander Turchinov.

"25th separate VDV brigade, whose soldiers demonstrated cowardice and handed out their weapons will be disbanded. Cowards will answer before court" stated Turchinov according to RBK. According to Turchinov, he already handed all of the necessary paperwork to the ministry of defense and the [Svoboda led] general prosecutor's office.

Earlier, a few armored infantry vehicles failed to move into Krematorsk where they were ordered to conduct an "antiterrorist operation" due to the resistance of the "militia members" and ended up retreating to Pchelkino, on the ouskirts of the city. After this, the column was blocked by local civilians, some of whom allegedly wore masks.

According to the ministry of defense, the commander of Ukraine's VDV, Aleksander Svetz began negotiations with the civilians of Krematorsk. He was able to get the civilians to enabled to soldiers to exit peaceful, as long as they turned over the bullets and did not reload their weapons.

Since the start of the week, several cities in the Southeast of Ukraine are being subject to an "anti-terrorist operation" with the goal of pacifying those who support the Federalization of Ukraine, [Not independence! Federalization!] who captured several administrative buildings and asked for a democratic referendum.


I'm fucking speechless. Despite the hell that they've been put through, by all sides, they don't want to secede, but they want more autonomy, so that they can topple the inept Oligarchs ruling them without intervention from Kiev. And for this act, for daring to live a better life as part of Ukraine and protesting by occupying buildings, the exact same thing that Maidaners claimed to do, these people are dubbed "terrorists!" Take a good look NSG, at these "terrorists"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhErv6Wujc

Those are the people that Turchinov wants to hand over to Svoboda on a silver platter. You shouldn't be supporting Kiev. You shouldn't be supporting Moscow. You shouldn't be supporting the Oligarchs. At this point, if you still give two shits about democracy, you should be supporting Federalization and amnesty. Amnesty for the brave soldiers who didn't fire at civilians. Amnesty for civilians that came out to speak with armed soldiers. Federalization, with the East as part of Ukraine, but without Western Oligarchs. That, BTW, is what has pricks like Kolomoiski and Taruta on edge, the same Kolomoisky who's a Western imposed Oligarch on Dnepropetrovsk, the same Kolomoisky who's now handing out bounties. Welcome to Russia of the 1990s, welcome to Oligarch Ukraine. Wake the fuck up people. These aren't fucking terrorists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmY

Edit, another source: http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/30280.html

Oleksandr Turchynov instructed to disband the 25th airborne brigade servicemen of which demonstrated cowardice and laid down their weapons Acting President, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Oleksandr Turchynov instructed to disband the 25th airborne brigade servicemen of which demonstrated cowardice and laid down their weapons. "The 25th separate airborne brigade servicemen of which demonstrated cowardice and laid down their weapons will be disbanded and guilty servicemen will stand trial," O. Turchynov said opening the morning session of the Parliament.


Apparently not shooting at unarmed civilians = cowardice in the eyes of Kiev.


Image
Last edited by Yitzchak Winternitz on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DnalweN acilbupeR
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Postby DnalweN acilbupeR » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:47 pm

Yitzchak Winternitz wrote:
Shofercia wrote:Turchinov's Government tells Ukrainian troops: "fire on civilians, or be court martialed!"

Not his exact words, but he did just threaten an entire brigade with court martial, all because they dared to not shoot at civilians without weapons. He's going after them for "cowardice" while hiding behind the backs of anyone who'll get in front of him: http://www.utro.ru/articles/2014/04/17/1189991.shtml

Let's see how far Ukrainian defenders want to take their bullshit now.





I'm fucking speechless. Despite the hell that they've been put through, by all sides, they don't want to secede, but they want more autonomy, so that they can topple the inept Oligarchs ruling them without intervention from Kiev. And for this act, for daring to live a better life as part of Ukraine and protesting by occupying buildings, the exact same thing that Maidaners claimed to do, these people are dubbed "terrorists!" Take a good look NSG, at these "terrorists"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhErv6Wujc

Those are the people that Turchinov wants to hand over to Svoboda on a silver platter. You shouldn't be supporting Kiev. You shouldn't be supporting Moscow. You shouldn't be supporting the Oligarchs. At this point, if you still give two shits about democracy, you should be supporting Federalization and amnesty. Amnesty for the brave soldiers who didn't fire at civilians. Amnesty for civilians that came out to speak with armed soldiers. Federalization, with the East as part of Ukraine, but without Western Oligarchs. That, BTW, is what has pricks like Kolomoiski and Taruta on edge, the same Kolomoisky who's a Western imposed Oligarch on Dnepropetrovsk, the same Kolomoisky who's now handing out bounties. Welcome to Russia of the 1990s, welcome to Oligarch Ukraine. Wake the fuck up people. These aren't fucking terrorists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmY

Edit, another source: http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/30280.html



Apparently not shooting at unarmed civilians = cowardice in the eyes of Kiev.


Image


I'm not sure what to make of this. I'd spoiler it if I were you in any case. [notamod]

E: Posting pictures or GIFs likes this without saying anything is generally frowned upon and may constitute picspam, that's all
Last edited by DnalweN acilbupeR on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lyttenburgh wrote:all this is a damning enough evidence to proove you of being an edgy butthurt 'murican teenager with the sole agenda of prooving to the uncaring bitch Web, that "You Have A Point!"
Lyttenburgh wrote:Either that, or, you were gang-raped by commi-nazi russian Spetznaz kill team, who then painted all walls in your house in hammer and sickles, and then viped their asses with the stars and stripes banner in your yard. That's the only logical explanation.

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Lyttenburgh
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Postby Lyttenburgh » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:00 pm

Lemanrussland wrote:1) Your writing style (not your English grammar, but the smugness) is atrocious and annoying. Every post you make is in this same style. If you can help yourself, write like an adult.


Well, thank you, userperson Lemanrussland! Is it politicallycorrect enough for you to be called that? Or you are offended by the "person" part? In that case - my sincere apologies!

Now, "Re:Style". Thank you again. You see, there are some users here on NSG that horribly, horribly annoys me with their pseudo-smart-ass writing styles. Like, you know, some userpersons, who use this pattern:

Totally outragious unrealisticaly preposution barely connected with their oppoents original preposition and wprds

["long pause" - really, written words "pause/long pause" here!]

Smug reply that shows those pesky teenagers on dem Webs who is da Boss here!



But I'm mot complying! It's their style. If I find it hilarious - I just laugh.

Lemanrussland wrote:2) If I'm understanding you, you're saying that Shuster wasn't kidnapped? If that is what you're saying, what makes you say that? Nothing in the story you linked says they weren't. Simon Shuster was kidnapped, along with several other journalists: http://time.com/73522/time-vice-journal ... d-ukraine/


Nay, my lord! You understand me totaly wrong. Despite the fact that my mortal coil now is a bit more than 26 summers old, my mind is still capable of distinguishing between a veritable pyle of shytte and a despicable puddle of pysse.

Lemanrussland wrote:3) 600 troops isn't many, yes. It's more of a token gesture than anything. Poland, the Baltics and so on aren't "satellite states", by the way. We aren't the Warsaw Pact.


Of course! In many ways, by the way! No country of the Warsaw pact have sent it's troops into Afghanistan, by the way!
Last edited by Lyttenburgh on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:01 pm

Gravlen wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:1) To adopt an impeachment resolution, a minimum two-thirds of the parliament must support the impeachment procedure. To remove the President from office, a minimum three-quarters of parliament must support the resolution. The Constitutional and the Supreme Court of Ukraine's conclusions and decisions are considered at the parliamentary meetings.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_ ... succession

What's the correct constitutional procedure to deal with a President who've chosen to leave the country and doesn't return to fulfill his duties as president?

He hadn't left the country at that point, he was in Odessa, I think.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:22 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Gravlen wrote:What's the correct constitutional procedure to deal with a President who've chosen to leave the country and doesn't return to fulfill his duties as president?

He hadn't left the country at that point, he was in Odessa, I think.


Kharkov. Which, BTW, is not considered as "outside of Ukraine" by people with actual geography knowledge, or, at the very least, wasn't on February 22nd: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -base.html

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has flown out of Kiev to visit Ukraine's second largest city Kharkiv, considered his eastern political base. A US official said the embattled president made the trip to attend a meeting. Two key allies, parliamentary speaker Volodomyr Rybak and presidential administration chief Andrei Kluyev, were also reported to be on board the aircraft. "Our information, and I talked to the foreign minister about half an hour ago, is that President Yanukovych has gone out to Kharkiv... to some kind of a meeting that is taking place out there, and that he has now arrived," the official said. Asked about rumours that Mr Yanukovych had "fled" Kiev, after signing a deal with the Ukrainian opposition, the official appeared to play down the suggestion. "As you know, it is not unusual after he makes large political moves for him to visit the east, where his base is," the official said.
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Postby Lyttenburgh » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:44 pm

Oaledonia wrote:600 troops is enough, because Russia wont attack land with American troops.


Enough for what? Showing the flag and comforting histerical "Allies" in NATO? As for repelling supposed Russian invasion - it's definitly not enough.

Alien Space Bats wrote:You should wipe the flecks of spittle off your face when you finish writing like that.


I still wait for someone here saying "Yes, unbiased independant Westrn journos are shamless biased sell-outs". Or something like that - just get off you "morally superior then you, filhty Rushin'" hgh horse. "

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Lyttenburgh wrote:*SNIP*

How much is Russia paying you?


"Sarah! Sarochka, clear your deaf ears already! I know, we are too poor to afford such fine Otolaryngologist as our nephew Shlomo. This fine goyim person from the West is asking me how much we earn from them damned anti-semites in Kremlin! What? His mother is who? Send him where?! Oy wey, just no!

Young man - let you live to 105 years! - please don't make stuff up about my financial sources, and I won't tell you where you should go!"
Last edited by Lyttenburgh on Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“In an hour of Darkness, a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity, look to the madman to show the way.”

Fight for Peace. Live for War. Die for Nothing

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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:46 pm

DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:I'd like to start off by saying that Shof, what you wrote here is a stinking pile of bullshit, overfull with appeals to emotion and unsubstantiated claims. This is perhaps one of the least thought of responses of yours.

Shofercia wrote:Turchinov's Government tells Ukrainian troops: "fire on civilians, or be court martialed!"


Yeah, except he didn't.


When the only option is for the soldiers to either fire on civilians, or withdraw, and they get court martialed for withdrawing, the firing part is clearly implied.


DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:I like how on the row immediately below you admit this is bullshit yet you decide to keep this as a catchy headline of sorts.

Not his exact words, but he did just threaten an entire brigade with court martial, all because they dared to not shoot at civilians without weapons. He's going after them for "cowardice" while hiding behind the backs of anyone who'll get in front of him:


No, this has nothing to do with it. Your claim that the Ukrainian military were ordered to fire on unarmed civilians is stinkier than an athlete's shoes after a 3 hour marathon, source it or it dies right here and now.


I explained that he didn't give the order verbally, but he placed the military in a situation where there only option would be shooting unarmed civilians or being court martialed for cowardice. That's not admitting that it was bullshit, that's stating that the order wasn't given directly, but the military was placed in a situation where it had no choice: http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/oleksandr-turchynov/

Ukraine's President Turchnyov says 25th Airborne captured in Kramatorsk are 'cowards,' will be disbanded and court-martialed


A bit hard to follow orders when civilians are in your path and refuse to move.



DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
AFP/Yahoo wrote:separatists seized six armoured personnel carriers and forced another mechanised column of troops to disarm


Giving away military hardware and firearms to separatists (or civilians for that matter) will get you court martial'd (it's really fucking serious) in any self-respecting military and rightfully so. Denying this is just convenient ignorance and dishonesty on your part. Don't you realize how ridiculous this sounds? What if Russians ceded APCs and weapons to Chechen insurgents? You don't comprehend the seriousness of this do you? Perhaps removing the bias goggles would help.


If you would've read my article, and my translation, you'd reason that the article I cited didn't actually have the military giving them weapons. That wasn't the brigade that I was talking about. I even mentioned the name, Shvets. From that very same quote:

Earlier, a few armored infantry vehicles failed to move into Krematorsk where they were ordered to conduct an "antiterrorist operation" due to the resistance of the "militia members" and ended up retreating to Pchelkino, on the ouskirts of the city. After this, the column was blocked by local civilians, some of whom allegedly wore masks. According to the ministry of defense, the commander of Ukraine's VDV, Aleksander Svetz began negotiations with the civilians of Krematorsk. He was able to get the civilians to enabled to soldiers to exit peaceful, as long as they turned over the bullets and did not reload their weapons.


What part of "they did not turn over their weapons" is unclear? But even if that was unclear, you could've easily used Google Translate from the article that I cited: По данным военного ведомства, в переговоры с протестующими вступил командующий высокомобильными десантными войсками Украины Александр Швец. Он достиг соглашения о выходе солдат из окружения с личным оружием и на штатной технике.

He was able to reach and agreement where the soldiers carried out their weapons, and rode on their military vehicles. That story had NOTHING to do with the 6 APCs that were turned over. That was the story I was citing. Get your fucking facts straight, before calling bullshit on others. Cause that was just atrocious. Not only did you ignore the facts, that would've been business as usual. No, you TWISTED the facts in such contortions that truth became lie and lie became truth. When the article clearly states that the weapons and military vehicles were not turned over, you claim that they were. What the actual fuck? Yeah, the APCs were captured, but the 25th wasn't the only operational unit. Have you a source claiming that the APCs that were captured belonged directly to the 25th Brigade? No, you don't. You just go "oh noes, Shof posted something I don't like, here, let me B/S the facts and hope no one notices!" And you wonder why my responses to you include the words "Crimea River!"


DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:I dropped a tear, I have to admit. Whatever you are, call your boss right now and tell him you quit, and become a full time politician. It'd be a shame to waste such great talent at spreading lies and appealing to emotion based on unsubstantiated claims.


What the fuck? First you brazenly lie about the 25th handing over their weapons and vehicles, which didn't happen according to the source I cited, and then you accuse me of lying? What the actual fuck? Dude, stop. Unless you're here to bait others, just fucking stop.
Last edited by Shofercia on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ukraine - stop bombing innocent people! Pricks who burn other people alive should be punished.
Feel the Bern! Two actual females that can beat Trump: Gabbard & Klobuchar
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If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

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Oaledonia
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Postby Oaledonia » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:53 pm

Lyttenburgh wrote:Enough for what? Showing the flag and comforting histerical "Allies" in NATO? As for repelling supposed Russian invasion - it's definatly not enough.

No, but it's enough to stop an invasion in another sense, Russia simply wont attack NATO troops. No need to waste any more money then sending 600 troops, because Russia isn't that retarded.
Last edited by Wikipe-tan on January 13, 2006 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Oaledonia wrote:I'll go make my own genocidal galactic empire! with blackjack and hookers

You bet your ass you will!
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Lyttenburgh
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Founded: Sep 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lyttenburgh » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:09 pm

Oaledonia wrote:
Lyttenburgh wrote:Enough for what? Showing the flag and comforting histerical "Allies" in NATO? As for repelling supposed Russian invasion - it's definatly not enough.

No, but it's enough to stop an invasion in another sense, Russia simply wont attack NATO troops. No need to waste any more money then sending 600 troops, because Russia isn't that retarded.


Can you just understand that "bloody regime of big Pu" had no desire to invade NATO's "precious" Baltica or Poland. Can you admit already that these "New European" countries just shitted a pile of bricks, and 600 NATO soldiers here are just comforting thier histerics?
“In an hour of Darkness, a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity, look to the madman to show the way.”

Fight for Peace. Live for War. Die for Nothing

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Oaledonia
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Postby Oaledonia » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:15 pm

Lyttenburgh wrote:Can you just understand that "bloody regime of big Pu" had no desire to invade NATO's "precious" Baltica or Poland. Can you admit already that these "New European" countries just shitted a pile of bricks, and 600 NATO soldiers here are just comforting thier histerics?

Although it is true that they were obviously sent there on a reassurance mission, as stated by NATO themselves, you're claim that 600 troops pathetic is utterly false. It fact, 600 troops is a bit on the high side.
Last edited by Wikipe-tan on January 13, 2006 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Blackjack-and-Hookers wrote:
Oaledonia wrote:I'll go make my own genocidal galactic empire! with blackjack and hookers

You bet your ass you will!
Divair wrote:NSG summer doesn't end anymore. Climate change.
Under construction
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Lemanrussland
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Posts: 5078
Founded: Dec 10, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lemanrussland » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:22 pm

Lyttenburgh wrote:
Oaledonia wrote:No, but it's enough to stop an invasion in another sense, Russia simply wont attack NATO troops. No need to waste any more money then sending 600 troops, because Russia isn't that retarded.


Can you just understand that "bloody regime of big Pu" had no desire to invade NATO's "precious" Baltica or Poland. Can you admit already that these "New European" countries just shitted a pile of bricks, and 600 NATO soldiers here are just comforting thier histerics?

Can you just admit that sending in a small number of soldiers is an effective deterrent and sends a political message? 600 soliders is simply not a major shift in American policy towards NATO, we get that. What you don't understand (or simply don't want to admit) is that it shows that the Americans can and will make a major shift if Russia continues to act as if it is some resurgent superpower and decides to vent its petro-aggression on more of it's neighbors.

The US can and will make Poland the new West Germany, if Russia wants to act like an international outcast once again.

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