[ARCHIVED DEBATE] A Civilized Debate on Religion

[Jetan]

Someone having the right to do/think/believe/etc. something does not mean it's not dissapointing if they do.

You'll need some reason why it's disappointing that people believe in religion. Meaning some intrinsically bad aspect to religion.

You could write a book about bad aspects of religion, but no, none of those are needed for it to be dissapointing. The fact that in this day and age so many people still believe in superstitious nonsense either willingly or through unfair circumstances of life, is in itself extremely dissapointing, even depressing.

[Monkeykind]

Why would such a thing be relevant? The question was why he wouldn't simply reveal himself, the answer to that is that he has said that he desires faith, and enjoys people believing without seeing.

Have you ever thought that this Jesus guy was lying to everyone to be praised?

If he lied, how come he could still perform the miracles?

[Seriong]

John 20:29
"Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.""

What a bullshit reason. Ain't it weird it showed itself to a bunch of primitive people who barely needed spirituality because they were just trying to survive instead of modern people who some would say need such things?

I would personally argue for primitive people needing religion more than those today. See my response earlier, he must plant the seed at some point, choosing some people to carry the initial message, the metaphorical plant would then grow, without him needing to be constantly there.

[Allentyr]

Have you ever thought that this Jesus guy was lying to everyone to be praised?

If he lied, how come he could still perform the miracles?

Aside from a book thousands of years old and is possibly simply legends, do you have any proof he did such things?

[Allentyr]

What a bullshit reason. Ain't it weird it showed itself to a bunch of primitive people who barely needed spirituality because they were just trying to survive instead of modern people who some would say need such things?

I would personally argue for primitive people needing religion more than those today. See my response earlier, he must plant the seed at some point, choosing some people to carry the initial message, the metaphorical plant would then grow, without him needing to be constantly there.

He's supposed to be omnipresent, why didn't he want to be there?

[Sun Wukong]

Have you ever thought that this Jesus guy was lying to everyone to be praised?

If he lied, how come he could still perform the miracles?

Your own book says the Pharaoh's magicians were able to perform miracles.

[Jetan]

Have you ever thought that this Jesus guy was lying to everyone to be praised?

If he lied, how come he could still perform the miracles?

Newsflash: There was no miracles. Water does not turn to wine in the hands of a carpenter and few fish and bread will leave a hungry mob.

[Seriong]

You'll need some reason why it's disappointing that people believe in religion. Meaning some intrinsically bad aspect to religion.

You could write a book about bad aspects of religion, but no, none of those are needed for it to be dissapointing. The fact that in this day and age so many people still believe in superstitious nonsense either willingly or through unfair circumstances of life, is in itself extremely dissapointing, even depressing.

There's no real reason for them not to yet. There are still unanswered questions, and thus God can still find a home. Besides, he's more for binding people together, and emotional support.

If you are referring to why he gets to have God revealed to him, then there are two potential answers:
1) I cannot say, as the motives of a creature that is unable to be understood cannot be argued by either of us.
2) In order to allow the seed to be planted.

Why would such a thing be relevant? The question was why he wouldn't simply reveal himself, the answer to that is that he has said that he desires faith, and enjoys people believing without seeing.

I was just wondering...

Oh of course, definitely not going to be a loaded question.

Why would such a thing be relevant? The question was why he wouldn't simply reveal himself, the answer to that is that he has said that he desires faith, and enjoys people believing without seeing.

Have you ever thought that this Jesus guy was lying to everyone to be praised? So that's why the Big G hasn't shown itself to anyone today?

Personally, he likely wasn't lying, as such a thing implies willfully telling falsehoods.

If you are referring to why he gets to have God revealed to him, then there are two potential answers:
1) I cannot say, as the motives of a creature that is unable to be understood cannot be argued by either of us.
2) In order to allow the seed to be planted.

1. Speak for yourself, mortal.
2. So Thomas gets a free pass into heaven, but everyone else can go fuck themselves. Yep, that's fair.

1) If it is defined to be unable to be understood, then it cannot be understood, by definition.
2) Not even kind of what I said.

[Allentyr]

Personally, he likely wasn't lying, as such a thing implies willfully telling falsehoods.

And so this guy totally did not lie. He totally had proof that God exists and he totally did not say so to get praise.
You're a special kind of religious.

[Seriong]

I would personally argue for primitive people needing religion more than those today. See my response earlier, he must plant the seed at some point, choosing some people to carry the initial message, the metaphorical plant would then grow, without him needing to be constantly there.

He's supposed to be omnipresent, why didn't he want to be there?

Analogies and metaphors cannot be perfect. The phrase's meaning in that context refers to someone caring for the plant. Not just them physically being there.

[Sun Wukong]

1. Speak for yourself, mortal.
2. So Thomas gets a free pass into heaven, but everyone else can go fuck themselves. Yep, that's fair.

1) If it is defined to be unable to be understood, then it cannot be understood, by definition.
2) Not even kind of what I said.

1. Nah, he just wants you to think that. So whenever you have criticism he can wave his hand and go, "WhooOOOoooOOOooo."
2. No, but that is what you were meant to respond to, and failed.

[Tyriece]

Btw which god are we talking about? That would be helpful

Personally, I am talking about all of them. They are largely interchangeable.

I hope you under stand that there are countless gods that we have talked about all though out history, even the word its self have gone though multiple changes and meanings even in recent times. How ever it seems NSG, the internet and the rest of the world for that matter Christian or not, refer to God as the one in the bible, neglecting the thousands of years of history humans have had to develop the word god and all its meanings and interpenetrations (I blame the schools and parents)
So I say again before I give this thread a very long history lesson, which god are we talking about?

[Seriong]

Personally, he likely wasn't lying, as such a thing implies willfully telling falsehoods.

And so this guy totally did not lie. He totally had proof that God exists and he totally did not say so to get praise.
You're a special kind of religious.

No, I meant more in the way that a schizophrenic doesn't lie about there being voices in their head. Or a fifth grader doesn't lie about 2x5 = 15. Wrong =\= Lie

1) If it is defined to be unable to be understood, then it cannot be understood, by definition.
2) Not even kind of what I said.

1. Nah, he just wants you to think that. So whenever you have criticism he can wave his hand and go, "WhooOOOoooOOOooo."
2. No, but that is what you were meant to respond to, and failed.

1) I don't know if ethereal beings have hands, always been one of my problems with Hinduism.
2) No, I responded to 'why he gets special treatment' and prefaced it with "If you mean in the way that..." It would have been your responsibility to say "No, I mean in the way of..." if I had been misinterpreting what you said.

[Allentyr]

Personally, I am talking about all of them. They are largely interchangeable.

I hope you under stand that there are countless gods that we have talked about all though out history, even the word its self have gone though multiple changes and meanings even in recent times. How ever it seems NSG, the internet and the rest of the world for that matter Christian or not, refer to God as the one in the bible, neglecting the thousands of years of history humans have had to develop the word god and all its meanings and interpenetrations (I blame the schools and parents)
So I say again before I give this thread a very long history lesson, which god are we talking about?

Abrahamic, right now. We'll discuss the others later.

Analogies and metaphors cannot be perfect. The phrase's meaning in that context refers to someone caring for the plant. Not just them physically being there.

What a douche. He gives us free will, he told us to do things, and he wants to throw every single non-believer into "hell" without giving us proof he's been here.

[Vissegaard]

I hope you under stand that there are countless gods that we have talked about all though out history, even the word its self have gone though multiple changes and meanings even in recent times. How ever it seems NSG, the internet and the rest of the world for that matter Christian or not, refer to God as the one in the bible, neglecting the thousands of years of history humans have had to develop the word god and all its meanings and interpenetrations (I blame the schools and parents)
So I say again before I give this thread a very long history lesson, which god are we talking about?

I´m talking about my God. And everybody does, because you can´t talk about god, if you don´t have concept of one. And if you have, it is your own God you either preach or condemn.

[Allentyr]

No, I meant more in the way that a schizophrenic doesn't lie about there being voices in their head. Or a fifth grader doesn't lie about 2x5 = 15. Wrong =\= Lie

So you think he was a schizophrenic that was nuttier than a fruit cake. He probably was.

[Seriong]

What a douche. He gives us free will, he told us to do things, and he wants to throw every single non-believer into "hell" without giving us proof he's been here.

Well, actually he put us in a perfect world without sin, and then Satan started fucking things up. Also, the question of if non-believers go to hell necessarily is not universally answered.

[Sun Wukong]

1. Nah, he just wants you to think that. So whenever you have criticism he can wave his hand and go, "WhooOOOoooOOOooo."
2. No, but that is what you were meant to respond to, and failed.

1) I don't know if ethereal beings have hands, always been one of my problems with Hinduism.
2) No, I responded to 'why he gets special treatment' and prefaced it with "If you mean in the way that..." It would have been your responsibility to say "No, I mean in the way of..." if I had been misinterpreting what you said.

1. Not good with metaphor and symbolism are you? Maybe the Bible isn't the book for you. Do you think Jesus was literally a sheep?
2. I spoke plainly, you just did address the concern. How is it fair?

[Allentyr]

Well, actually he put us in a perfect world without sin, and then Satan started fucking things up. Also, the question of if non-believers go to hell necessarily is not universally answered.

How was the world perfect? A perfect world would be heaven. And Satan fucked things up? Humans have free will, that big G gave us, we'd have fucked things on our own.

[Seriong]

No, I meant more in the way that a schizophrenic doesn't lie about there being voices in their head. Or a fifth grader doesn't lie about 2x5 = 15. Wrong =\= Lie

So you think he was a schizophrenic that was nuttier than a fruit cake. He probably was.

Definitely not schizophrenia, that usually presents much earlier, and it would have altered his behavior in a way too extreme for him for be high functioning enough to gain all the followers he did. Possibly narcissistic personality disorder, but I am horribly unqualified. He was charismatic and organized, and I don't think he was crazy, if he existed I think he would likely have just eventually believed his own hype, not really insanity, just a bit of bluster.

[Allentyr]

So you think he was a schizophrenic that was nuttier than a fruit cake. He probably was.

Definitely not schizophrenia, that usually presents much earlier, and it would have altered his behavior in a way too extreme for him for be high functioning enough to gain all the followers he did. Possibly narcissistic personality disorder, but I am horribly unqualified. He was charismatic and organized, and I don't think he was crazy, if he existed I think he would likely have just eventually believed his own hype, not really insanity, just a bit of bluster.

I don't know if you're with me, or against me, but I like the way you think.
I always thought him calling himself the son of god was a bit narcissistic... But I still think God's a lie created to give those who start religions power.

[Seriong]

1) I don't know if ethereal beings have hands, always been one of my problems with Hinduism.
2) No, I responded to 'why he gets special treatment' and prefaced it with "If you mean in the way that..." It would have been your responsibility to say "No, I mean in the way of..." if I had been misinterpreting what you said.

1. Not good with metaphor and symbolism are you? Maybe the Bible isn't the book for you. Do you think Jesus was literally a sheep?
2. I spoke plainly, you just did address the concern. How is it fair?

1) I didn't know your humor was so dry.
2) I've already said it would be impossible to know.

Well, actually he put us in a perfect world without sin, and then Satan started fucking things up. Also, the question of if non-believers go to hell necessarily is not universally answered.

How was the world perfect? A perfect world would be heaven. And Satan fucked things up? Humans have free will, that big G gave us, we'd have fucked things on our own.

A perfect world, such that we can currently comprehend would be one where all needs are taken care of. Satan convinced Eve to partake of something she should not have, they had a lack of knowledge of good an evil. In the same way, convincing a mentally handicapped person to stick a fork in a light socket would be the fault of the person that convinced them, as the handicapped person cannot comprehend the issue.

[Seriong]

Definitely not schizophrenia, that usually presents much earlier, and it would have altered his behavior in a way too extreme for him for be high functioning enough to gain all the followers he did. Possibly narcissistic personality disorder, but I am horribly unqualified. He was charismatic and organized, and I don't think he was crazy, if he existed I think he would likely have just eventually believed his own hype, not really insanity, just a bit of bluster.

I don't know if you're with me, or against me, but I like the way you think.
I always thought him calling himself the son of god was a bit narcissistic... But I still think God's a lie created to give those who start religions power.

It's the same thing we see everywhere. Celebrities aren't really insane, they just start to believe their own hype, that they're above everything, and beloved.

God's our first attempt at an answer, it being wrong doesn't make it a lie necessarily.

[Tyriece]

I hope you under stand that there are countless gods that we have talked about all though out history, even the word its self have gone though multiple changes and meanings even in recent times. How ever it seems NSG, the internet and the rest of the world for that matter Christian or not, refer to God as the one in the bible, neglecting the thousands of years of history humans have had to develop the word god and all its meanings and interpenetrations (I blame the schools and parents)
So I say again before I give this thread a very long history lesson, which god are we talking about?

I´m talking about my God. And everybody does, because you can´t talk about god, if you don´t have concept of one. And if you have, it is your own God you either preach or condemn.

If that is true then you can't really debate on god being real or not, because everyone will have a completely different outlook.That would be like trying to debate who's opinion is right and whose is wrong. I have my own concept of "god" but I in no way clam it to be true even with my reasons.

[Allentyr]

A perfect world, such that we can currently comprehend would be one where all needs are taken care of. Satan convinced Eve to partake of something she should not have, they had a lack of knowledge of good an evil. In the same way, convincing a mentally handicapped person to stick a fork in a light socket would be the fault of the person that convinced them, as the handicapped person cannot comprehend the issue.

So god created em without giving them knowledge of good and evil. Douche.
There's also the problem of incest. If they were the only two humans... And their sons married their daughters and so on... How does that work, they would've developed severe retardation by the sixth or seventh generation..