[ARCHIVED DEBATE] A Civilized Debate on Religion

[Bezombia]

It does seem that the idea of a God is not logically consistant, to me, but I have heard from many who claim "god is beyond logic".

"God is beyond logic"?
Funnily, that's the same reasoning I used when I tried to convince one of my friends that he wasn't real.

[Allentyr]

How is absolute power impossible? The limits of 'God' are only the limits of human understanding, which of course do exist. That's the strange beauty of religion is that it can never be disproved. An Entity or entities that are divine are not restricted to logic or reasoning because they are limitless, and humans aren't.

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?
And the house of cards comes crashing doooooooooooooowwwnnn.
Ofcourse it's restricted to logic. can it or can it not make a boulder too heavy for it to lift? Either answer to this question shows god cannot possibly be all powerful. It's an incoherent thing for a person to be.

The fact that even a child can disprove god isn't a coincidence. It takes serious indoctrination to blind people to basic questions like that. Children havn't been indoctrinated yet.

I tip my hat to you, sir.

The reason I believe in Yashua (Jesus) is because of over 40 sources of him. It can't be a coincidence that over 40 people wrote about the same person doing the same things in the same place at the same time with the same name.

You serious....? Oh wait, of course you are.

[Polski Swiety Imperium]

If god exists, so does Ra.
Are you people saying that Ra is real?

How does that work?

[Sun Wukong]

Because I am, in fact, the Great Sage, Equal to Heaven.

But the problem with your argument is it's contradictory nature. It states that we cannot know the nature of god, but then goes on to assume things about him.

Wait I thought you were the eternal king of the monkies?

I can be two things.

That other guy gets to be three...

[The first Carthage]

I think there is some all powerful being up there, I don't know who or what he is. Just be good and see what happens I guess.

[Greater-London]

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?
And the house of cards comes crashing doooooooooooooowwwnnn.
Ofcourse it's restricted to logic. can it or can it not make a boulder too heavy for it to lift? Either answer to this question shows god cannot possibly be all powerful. It's an incoherent thing for a person to be.

The fact that even a child can disprove god isn't a coincidence. It takes serious indoctrination to blind people to basic questions like that. Children havn't been indoctrinated yet.

I'm aware of the "could god make a boulder to heavy for him to lift?"exercise. I'm also not indoctrinated nor do I believe in God.

The point I was making was that you cant apply logical human ways of thinking in order to prove, or disprove God. The fact that you can use logic to disprove the idea of God being all powerful isn't relevant. The whole notion of spirituality and religion doesn't have to make sense it plays by its own rules.

[Hakio]

It does seem that the idea of a God is not logically consistant, to me, but I have heard from many who claim "god is beyond logic".

[Jetan]

That's a whine that people give to avoid upsetting the religious. I don't care if I upset them. An all powerful God can, and has, been regularly disproven.

Give me an example. One fucking example.

The thread. I suggest you read it:

How is absolute power impossible? The limits of 'God' are only the limits of human understanding, which of course do exist. That's the strange beauty of religion is that it can never be disproved. An Entity or entities that are divine are not restricted to logic or reasoning because they are limitless, and humans aren't.

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?
And the house of cards comes crashing doooooooooooooowwwnnn.
Ofcourse it's restricted to logic. can it or can it not make a boulder too heavy for it to lift? Either answer to this question shows god cannot possibly be all powerful. It's an incoherent thing for a person to be.

The fact that even a child can disprove god isn't a coincidence. It takes serious indoctrination to blind people to basic questions like that. Children havn't been indoctrinated yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?
And the house of cards comes crashing doooooooooooooowwwnnn.
Ofcourse it's restricted to logic. can it or can it not make a boulder too heavy for it to lift? Either answer to this question shows god cannot possibly be all powerful. It's an incoherent thing for a person to be.

The fact that even a child can disprove god isn't a coincidence. It takes serious indoctrination to blind people to basic questions like that. Children havn't been indoctrinated yet.

I'm aware of the "could god make a boulder to heavy for him to lift?"exercise. I'm also not indoctrinated nor do I believe in God.

The point I was making was that you cant apply logical human ways of thinking in order to prove, or disprove God. The fact that you can use logic to disprove the idea of God being all powerful isn't relevant. The whole notion of spirituality and religion doesn't have to make sense it plays by its own rules.

Yes it is relevant, because it proves that if you define god as all powerful, then god doesn't exist.
So what other definition do you have?

As I said earlier.

ALL gods can be shown to be mundane, tautologous, or impossible.

[Gallup]

How is absolute power impossible? The limits of 'God' are only the limits of human understanding, which of course do exist. That's the strange beauty of religion is that it can never be disproved. An Entity or entities that are divine are not restricted to logic or reasoning because they are limitless, and humans aren't.

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?

That's like "the sound of one hand clapping". It's silly.

[Bezombia]

It does seem that the idea of a God is not logically consistant, to me, but I have heard from many who claim "god is beyond logic".

You already said that and I already responded to you.

[Bezombia]

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?

That's like "the sound of one hand clapping". It's silly.

Funnily enough, that's completely possible. Hard, but possible.

[Polski Swiety Imperium]

The reason I believe in Yashua (Jesus) is because of over 40 sources of him. It can't be a coincidence that over 40 people wrote about the same person doing the same things in the same place at the same time with the same name.

A shit load of people write about Stephen Hawking's
Henceforth he is now the Messiah
praise be unto him

Well. I believe in Stephen Hawking as well. What are you trying to say? Tons of people say Hawking is a scientist. Tons say Jesus is messiah.

[Ostroeuropa]

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?

That's like "the sound of one hand clapping". It's silly.

How so. The fact that it's a question a child would ask and you don't have a satisfactory answer for it should make you think "Maybe this shit is really fucking stupid if even a child can see through it."

[Bezombia]

If god exists, so does Ra.
Are you people saying that Ra is real?

How does that work?

Prove to me that it doesn't work.

[Jetan]

*Sigh*
Can god make a boulder too heavy for him to lift?

That's like "the sound of one hand clapping". It's silly.

And yet it disproves all powerful god.

[Greater-London]

Because I am, in fact, the Great Sage, Equal to Heaven.

But the problem with your argument is it's contradictory nature. It states that we cannot know the nature of god, but then goes on to assume things about him.

I wouldn't say it was necessarily contradictory. Let's say I assume that theres a God who created everything. I'm not assuming anything about its nature how it behaves or thinks, all I'm assuming is that it exists.

[Polski Swiety Imperium]

Give me an example. One fucking example.

I just did.
The boulder argument is incredibly widespread.
An all powerful entity is incoherent by nature, and an impossibility.

Can god make a boulder too heavy for it to lift?

If yes, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot lift boulder.)
If no, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot create boulder.)

God can change. maybe he's not using his full potential now, so he can't lift the boulder, but he can change to lift it.

[Jetan]

Because I am, in fact, the Great Sage, Equal to Heaven.

But the problem with your argument is it's contradictory nature. It states that we cannot know the nature of god, but then goes on to assume things about him.

I wouldn't say it was necessarily contradictory. Let's say I assume that theres a God who created everything. I'm not assuming anything about its nature how it behaves or thinks, all I'm assuming is that it exists.

Then what created said god?

[New Libertarian States]

A shit load of people write about Stephen Hawking's
Henceforth he is now the Messiah
praise be unto him

Well. I believe in Stephen Hawking as well. What are you trying to say? Tons of people say Hawking is a scientist. Tons say Jesus is messiah.

And tons say that Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, etc. are the true prophets/saviours/god
Just because a lot of people believe it, doesn't make it true.

[Jetan]

I just did.
The boulder argument is incredibly widespread.
An all powerful entity is incoherent by nature, and an impossibility.

Can god make a boulder too heavy for it to lift?

If yes, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot lift boulder.)
If no, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot create boulder.)

God can change. maybe he's not using his full potential now, so he can't lift the boulder, but he can change to lift it.

Meaning he cannot create a boulder he cannot lift, meaning he's not all powerful.

[Ostroeuropa]

I just did.
The boulder argument is incredibly widespread.
An all powerful entity is incoherent by nature, and an impossibility.

Can god make a boulder too heavy for it to lift?

If yes, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot lift boulder.)
If no, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot create boulder.)

God can change. maybe he's not using his full potential now, so he can't lift the boulder, but he can change to lift it.

So he isn't all powerful. But he could be. Ok.
Can god make a boulder that he can never lift?

OH NOES.
THE HOUSE OF CARDS. IT'S CRASHING.

You're defending the indefensible here.

[Polski Swiety Imperium]

How does that work?

Prove to me that it doesn't work.

Burden of proof. It's stupid.
If Poland exists, so does Heebjsdwidhhvjsa,knsvd. Are you people saying Heebjsdwidhhvjsa,knsvd is real?

[Bezombia]

Prove to me that it doesn't work.

Burden of proof. It's stupid.
If Poland exists, so does Heebjsdwidhhvjsa,knsvd. Are you people saying Heebjsdwidhhvjsa,knsvd is real?

Well I can't prove that it doesn't, therefore it must.
[/religiouslogic]

[Allentyr]

I just did.
The boulder argument is incredibly widespread.
An all powerful entity is incoherent by nature, and an impossibility.

Can god make a boulder too heavy for it to lift?

If yes, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot lift boulder.)
If no, then it isn't all powerful. (Cannot create boulder.)

God can change. maybe he's not using his full potential now, so he can't lift the boulder, but he can change to lift it.

But without changing he can't make a boulder he can't lift. And changing is cheating, thus he is not all-powerful.