[ARCHIVED DEBATE] A Civilized Debate on Religion

[Conscentia]

Deuteronomy 13 (The gist: Judaism doesn't like change - everything a prophet says must be in accordance with everything that already been said. Ie. No revisions like "the golden rule".)

Yahshua lived his life in accordance with what the prophets had said and

He revised the law, thus contradicting the prophets. Yeshua is one of many contemporary false claimants to the throne of David.

proved himself to be the son of Yahweh and in fulfilling the law he gave man a way to be saved through him.

1. What do you mean "in fulfiling the law"?
2. How would "fulfilling the law" prove he is the son of YHWH?
3. The Messiah is prophecised to be an ordinary man, not the son of YHWH.

[Hindenburgia]

I suppose I worded that poorly.

Basically, what I took issue with was how you wrote that you start by "find[ing] something you think is true". In doing this, you have made a judgement call - a small one, perhaps, but one nonetheless - regarding the idea in question. This taints your results by affecting your evaluation of information you find, your evaluation of the credibility of the sources you find, and even the way you search for information. All three of these are ways in which you introduce bias into your decision.

I suppose I have written my answer poorly as well, when I put "something you think is true" I had meant it as something you think Might be true. I do not mean this as I see it, and think that maybe it is true, but instead that it seems like something that might be possible or that it might have happened. I feel nothing for it one way or the other upon first discovery, and as I have said I actively seek to disprove it and show it is false first and foremost. I can think of no better way for me describe what I think upon seeing new information at this time than that, combined with what I have already said in my post to you before this one.

Even if you only go as far as to look for ideas that "you thing might be true", that is still a (again, very small) judgement call regarding their validity. And even if you take these ideas and look to disprove them first and foremost, you still have made that judgement call already.

Realistically, though, a very (very) mild form of the methodology you describe could well be not only not harmful but actually beneficial. This distinction, though, really hinges around a single question - how do you decide what "might be true"?

[Valica]

Let's look at this:

If there is a Christian god, He is either not just or he is not infallible.
The Bible claims He is both.

If He were just, killers/rapists/etc. would never live into their old age or go uncaptured. Yet that happens.
Innocent people get cancer or die in accidents or whatever every single day.

If He were infallible (incapable of making mistakes) then He would not have had to wipe out the planet with a flood.
Along with that, His creation (man) would not have done what He said not to do (eat the apple).

If there is a God, then they stopped giving a fuck long before humans evolved.
That or they just want to sit back and watch.

Due to the abundant evidence that shows us how everything started (big bang) and the nonexistent evidence of a higher power, I'm going to say no.
There is no God.

[Monkeykind]

Let's look at this:

If there is a Christian god, He is either not just or he is not infallible.
The Bible claims He is both.

If He were just, killers/rapists/etc. would never live into their old age or go uncaptured. Yet that happens.
Innocent people get cancer or die in accidents or whatever every single day.

If He were infallible (incapable of making mistakes) then He would not have had to wipe out the planet with a flood.
Along with that, His creation (man) would not have done what He said not to do (eat the apple).

If there is a God, then they stopped giving a fuck long before humans evolved.
That or they just want to sit back and watch.

Due to the abundant evidence that shows us how everything started (big bang) and the nonexistent evidence of a higher power, I'm going to say no.
There is no God.

He wants killers/rapists to repent, some do.
Those innocent people that get cancer/die in accidents, well it was their day.
http://www.gotquestions.org/appointed-death.html
It was simply their day.

[Valica]

Let's look at this:

If there is a Christian god, He is either not just or he is not infallible.
The Bible claims He is both.

If He were just, killers/rapists/etc. would never live into their old age or go uncaptured. Yet that happens.
Innocent people get cancer or die in accidents or whatever every single day.

If He were infallible (incapable of making mistakes) then He would not have had to wipe out the planet with a flood.
Along with that, His creation (man) would not have done what He said not to do (eat the apple).

If there is a God, then they stopped giving a fuck long before humans evolved.
That or they just want to sit back and watch.

Due to the abundant evidence that shows us how everything started (big bang) and the nonexistent evidence of a higher power, I'm going to say no.
There is no God.

He wants killers/rapists to repent, some do.
Those innocent people that get cancer/die in accidents, well it was their day.
http://www.gotquestions.org/appointed-death.html
It was simply their day.

Getting cancer is not a day.
It's a long, suffering death.
Therefore the Christian god is not just.

[Divair2]

Let's look at this:

If there is a Christian god, He is either not just or he is not infallible.
The Bible claims He is both.

If He were just, killers/rapists/etc. would never live into their old age or go uncaptured. Yet that happens.
Innocent people get cancer or die in accidents or whatever every single day.

If He were infallible (incapable of making mistakes) then He would not have had to wipe out the planet with a flood.
Along with that, His creation (man) would not have done what He said not to do (eat the apple).

If there is a God, then they stopped giving a fuck long before humans evolved.
That or they just want to sit back and watch.

Due to the abundant evidence that shows us how everything started (big bang) and the nonexistent evidence of a higher power, I'm going to say no.
There is no God.

He wants killers/rapists to repent, some do.
Those innocent people that get cancer/die in accidents, well it was their day.
http://www.gotquestions.org/appointed-death.html
It was simply their day.

Sounds like a load of heartless shit to me.

[Monkeykind]

He wants killers/rapists to repent, some do.
Those innocent people that get cancer/die in accidents, well it was their day.
http://www.gotquestions.org/appointed-death.html
It was simply their day.

Getting cancer is not a day.
It's a long, suffering death.
Therefore the Christian god is not just.

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it.

He wants killers/rapists to repent, some do.
Those innocent people that get cancer/die in accidents, well it was their day.
http://www.gotquestions.org/appointed-death.html
It was simply their day.

Sounds like a load of heartless shit to me.

Please elaborate.

[Divair2]

Getting cancer is not a day.
It's a long, suffering death.
Therefore the Christian god is not just.

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it.

Sounds like a load of heartless shit to me.

Please elaborate.

Dismissing somebody's death from something as horrifying as cancer by calling it "their day" is utterly heartless and anyone who believes in it is an emotionless robot who doesn't know any better.

[Valica]

-snip-

And what about those rapists and killers that repent?
Are you saying that I could kill a million people, but as long as I accept Jesus, it's totes fine?
That's the worst fucking logic I've ever heard.
That's why Christian morality is awful.
They think that they could do anything and as long as they say sorry at the gates, it's fine.

Do you know where atheist morality is based?
It's based in that feeling you get when you help someone.
It's based in the fact that we get one life to make a difference and then we are gone.
So we do everything we can to make the world better before we die.
There's no afterlife waiting for men. It's a waste of time following an ancient cult.

You'll spend your life praying and going to church.
You'll pray for people in pain or people in bad conditions.
Science, specifically medicine, will answer those prayers. Not God.
And at the end of they day, you'll die. We'll all die.
And you won't regret it. You won't be able to. None of us will.

[Hindenburgia]

Getting cancer is not a day.
It's a long, suffering death.
Therefore the Christian god is not just.

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it.

Sounds like a load of heartless shit to me.

Please elaborate.

I think I know what the two are getting at - basically, of all the ways to die, cancer, depending on the type, can be one of the worst. It is slow, it is difficult to stop, it is extremely debilitating, and it is very, very painful. Divair was commenting on it seeming... rather heartless to put someone through that simply because "it was ... their day."

[Monkeykind]

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it.
Please elaborate.

I think I know what the two are getting at - basically, of all the ways to die, cancer, depending on the type, can be one of the worst. It is slow, it is difficult to stop, it is extremely debilitating, and it is very, very painful. Divair was commenting on it seeming... rather heartless to put someone through that simply because "it was ... their day."

Hmm, well God has his reasons for choosing that death. If they blashphemed,that may be it.

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it.
Please elaborate.

Dismissing somebody's death from something as horrifying as cancer by calling it "their day" is utterly heartless and anyone who believes in it is an emotionless robot who doesn't know any better.

Well, I'm not dismissing it. It is sad, but God knew it was their time.

Yeah, but it's just one of his tests for christians who get it./quote]

And what about those rapists and killers that repent?
Are you saying that I could kill a million people, but as long as I accept Jesus, it's totes fine?
That's the worst fucking logic I've ever heard.
That's why Christian morality is awful.
They think that they could do anything and as long as they say sorry at the gates, it's fine.

Do you know where atheist morality is based?
It's based in that feeling you get when you help someone.
It's based in the fact that we get one life to make a difference and then we are gone.
So we do everything we can to make the world better before we die.
There's no afterlife waiting for men. It's a waste of time following an ancient cult.

You'll spend your life praying and going to church.
You'll pray for people in pain or people in bad conditions.
Science, specifically medicine, will answer those prayers. Not God.
And at the end of they day, you'll die. We'll all die.
And you won't regret it. You won't be able to. None of us will.

The second paragraph looks like the humanist religion not atheist.
And if you blaspheme, saying sorry won't get you out of that. That's the one unforgivable sin.
Besides, it all depends on what type of christian you are.

[Divair2]

I think I know what the two are getting at - basically, of all the ways to die, cancer, depending on the type, can be one of the worst. It is slow, it is difficult to stop, it is extremely debilitating, and it is very, very painful. Divair was commenting on it seeming... rather heartless to put someone through that simply because "it was ... their day."

Dismissing somebody's death from something as horrifying as cancer by calling it "their day" is utterly heartless and anyone who believes in it is an emotionless robot who doesn't know any better.

Well, I'm not dismissing it. It is sad, but God knew it was their time.

Dismissal.

[Pandeeria]

You do realize how cold, heartless, and evil that sounds? Right?

[Monkeykind]

Well, I'm not dismissing it. It is sad, but God knew it was their time.

Dismissal.

Alright then,dismissal. I'm an emotionless robot. Fine by me, that's a cool thing to be.

[Monkeykind]

You do realize how cold, heartless, and evil that sounds? Right?

How what part sounds?

[Divair2]

Dismissal.

Alright then,dismissal. I'm an emotionless robot. Fine by me, that's a cool thing to be.

Pathetic.

[Pandeeria]

You do realize how cold, heartless, and evil that sounds? Right?

How what part sounds?

Click on your name to find out.

[Monkeykind]

Alright then,dismissal. I'm an emotionless robot. Fine by me, that's a cool thing to be.

Pathetic.

Now now, there's no need to insult.

How what part sounds?

Click on your name to find out.

I did and nothing happened.

[Pandeeria]

Pathetic.

Now now, there's no need to insult.

Click on your name to find out.

I did and nothing happened.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=287923&p=19559031#p19559031

[Monkeykind]

Now now, there's no need to insult.
I did and nothing happened.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=287923&p=19559031#p19559031

Oh....

[Valica]

I think movies like "God's Not Dead" really show how ignorant the Christians of America are about atheists and other religions in general.

[The United Brony Armies]

I am an Atheist. However I think that the Universe and things of that sort are more complex than the human race has made them out to be.

[Monkeykind]

I think movies like "God's Not Dead" really show how ignorant the Christians of America are about atheists and other religions in general.

Never seen it.

[The United Brony Armies]

I think movies like "God's Not Dead" really show how ignorant the Christians of America are about atheists and other religions in general.

Never seen it.

I haven't either but I am just going to assume that it's about a group of Christians trying to prove something that just cannot be proved. Right or wrong. Something like this can't be proved yet.

[Jetan]

Hmm, well God has his reasons for choosing that death. If they blashphemed,that may be it.

Meaning your god is not just.