[ARCHIVED DEBATE] A Civilized Debate on Religion

[Menassa]

How do you know? Anybody can claim to be a prophet. Most who claim to be prophets are quite sincere in believing that what their inner voice tells them is from God.

Deuteronomy 13 (The gist: Judaism doesn't like change - everything a prophet says must be in accordance with everything that already been said. Ie. No revisions like "the golden rule".)

Or that God could be a man.
Numbers 23:19.

[ThePeacekeepers]

[...] How were they to know the will of Yahweh? [...]

Seriously? They're prophets. YHWH told them his will. That's the point.

If you look at what I said in the next sentence, you would see that I said they only knew what Yahweh told them. They did not know everything that was in his will only what was given to them.

[ThePeacekeepers]

The lord has said that which will come to pass in the last days, concerning the minds of man 2 Peter 3:2-7.

"2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

The prophesies have not all been fulfilled by Yahshua yet but they will be fulfilled and all those who did not believe on him will not be saved. I pray the beginning of sorrows is at hand and the end of days be upon us shortly, that all who believe on Yahshua might be shown true in our beliefs and in our faith in Yahweh and his son Yahshua. Through Yahshua only is there salvation.

Right, so again, he isn't the messiah. Got it.

Yahshua is indeed our savior, and through his name only can man be saved.

[Divair2]

Right, so again, he isn't the messiah. Got it.

Yahshua is indeed our savior, and in his name only is there salvation.

I think Bob is a far more likely candidate for saviour.

[ThePeacekeepers]

How do you know? Anybody can claim to be a prophet. Most who claim to be prophets are quite sincere in believing that what their inner voice tells them is from God.

Deuteronomy 13 (The gist: Judaism doesn't like change - everything a prophet says must be in accordance with everything that already been said. Ie. No revisions like "the golden rule".)

Yahshua lived his life in accordance with what the prophets had said and proved himself to be the son of Yahweh and in fulfilling the law he gave man a way to be saved through him.

[Hindenburgia]

Deuteronomy 13 (The gist: Judaism doesn't like change - everything a prophet says must be in accordance with everything that already been said. Ie. No revisions like "the golden rule".)

Yahshua lived his life in accordance with what the prophets had said and proved himself to be the son of Yahweh and in fulfilling the law he gave man a way to be saved through him.

I'd like to direct your attention to my response to one of your previous posts, if you don't mind. I think it's an important point to make, and I'd like to see your response.

I do not mean for you to accept everything I am saying just because I am saying it, I would not accept anything that did not make sense and I would make anyone else to accept it either. I search in many places to find truth because knowing that what I am believing in is true is important to me, academic sites only have so much knowledge other sites may be saying things that are true also, sites that seem extreme or radical but if they have truth to them I would happily take the time to read through what they have to say that I might find the truth. To gain knowledge you cannot look in just one place, you must search for it, I would happily dig through a pile of garbage to find a little bit of truth. I ask that you not limit yourself and read through what I have given you with an open mind. I am still searching for your academic source.

But in digging through that pile, how do you know what is true and what is garbage?

[Ancian]

Seriously? They're prophets. YHWH told them his will. That's the point.

How do you know? Anybody can claim to be a prophet. Most who claim to be prophets are quite sincere in believing that what their inner voice tells them is from God.

In the old testament especially, God spoke out loud.

[Mavorpen]

Right, so again, he isn't the messiah. Got it.

Yahshua is indeed our savior, and through his name only can man be saved.

And you know this because of prophecies he hasn't fulfilled. Got it.

[Jerkmany]

I will never really call myself an atheist. I don't believe in a God but I won't pretend that I know that there can't be a "God". Especially since God is such a loosely defined idea. Sagan once compared God to the rules that govern our universe, saying, "I would not pray to gravity."

"The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact"

[Mavorpen]

I will never really call myself an atheist. I don't believe in a God but I won't pretend that I know that there can't be a "God". Especially since God is such a loosely defined idea. Sagan once compared God to the rules that govern our universe, saying, "I would not pray to gravity."

"The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact"

In other words, you're an atheist. Got it.

[Jetan]

I will never really call myself an atheist. I don't believe in a God but I won't pretend that I know that there can't be a "God". Especially since God is such a loosely defined idea. Sagan once compared God to the rules that govern our universe, saying, "I would not pray to gravity."

"The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact"

In other words, you're an atheist. Got it.

Indeed.

[Michijo]

Ive isolated religions as mostly having a philosophy of strength in weakness, showing weakness before a God to gain some warped strength from exposure to danger. This often leads to aggression, such as in Islam. Ultimately the strength in weakness philosophy is predatory and leads to preying on the weak whilst at once playing the victim. Thus the Christian can show forceful aggression while claiming they are the victims and using the mentality as a justification for gun mania, imagining enemies everywhere. I do not focus on Christians though. It is an inherent mentality in all religions.

[ThePeacekeepers]

Yahshua did prove himself, he fulfilled the law by dying on the cross and spiritually going up and splashing his blood on the altar for man's sins Hebrews 9. Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as Yahshua to die for our sins. Yahshua is Yahweh's only begotten son that he sent to die for our sins.

God never once stated that this was going to occur, he never once told the Children of Israel that this would come to 'fulfill the Law' and regardless of doctrine and dogma think about how that would even make any sense.

"Here is this Law Israel you must keep it and emulate God."
"But if God dies on a cross it is no longer valid?"

That doesn't seem very logical.

He called heaven and earth to bear witness to this day and to the covenant between them. Forever has an end, and when the Law was fulfilled in Yahshua the people of this world had their way to salvation through Yahshua who died for our sins so that we could be saved.

That's not true, 'forever has an end' it does not it means forever that is ever.

The Jews went against the Covenant at almost every turn worshipping false gods and turning away from Yahweh so he sent his son to do what no man could and lived a life without sin and fulfilled the law and died for all man's sins so they could be saved through him.

And? That doesn't change the nature of the Covenant if people break a Law that doesn't make the Law non-existent.

Show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

I believe it was you who said 'you did not come here to learn anything' or maybe I am confused but your statement 'give me an answer' implies that you can twist anything you see into an answer, a clearly biased opinion.

Isaiah 2 is speaking of the end of days. I pray those prophesies will come to pass shortly. When I said he fulfilled all the things the prophet's had said I meant in reference to his life, death, and resurrection, but I apologize for not making it clear. I Will be sure to make my future comments as clear as possible to leave out any room for misinterpretation or confusion.

The actual description of the Messianic age in Isaiah 2 perhaps lies directly in contrast with revelations, but that's not important.
What is important is the lack of occurrence of Isaiah 2 translating into the lack of The Messiah being present on earth.

And when preaching to Hebrews would you not preach to them in their native language as well?
Paul would have spoken the true name when speaking to the Hebrews and as I believe he would have to all the other churches and peoples as well. It would have been better to teach them the name so that they could be saved and be able to preach the true name of the son of Yahweh(Yahshua) to the world. As I have said there is only one name by which you can be saved and that name is Yahshua.

Again, when he spoke to the Hebrews, he spoke in Hebrew.
That DOES NOT mean that when he spoke to the Greeks he did not speak in Greek, in fact, he most probably did speak in Greek and say the name 'Iesus' to the Galatians among others... cannot it be said that they are not saved? That is absurd.

The Pharisees did persecute and kill many of the people who practiced Christianity

That's a lie, the Pharisees really didn't persecute anyone. Check your history.

Paul being one of the people to send many Christians to their deaths before he devoted his life to serving God.

Paul, despite his claims to the contrary was most probably not a Pharisee.

True Paul did preach in Greek on numerous occasions but he could still have used the Original name, nothing was stopping him.

Besides for the inability of his congregants to understand his meaning because it was in a different language.

When we speak in different languages today names usually remain the same when we are talking about a person.

Exactly why that applies to Jesus, and Moses, and Joshua, and God.

If the name was important as the New Testament says it is, he would have preserved the name and taught with it only.

Where is your proof of this claim?

I do not know if they achieved salvation but if they had heard the truth and did not follow it then they are indeed dammed. If they knew the true name and did not use it and instead used another they would be dammed. It gave only one name by which to be saved and if you have heard the truth and did not follow it you are dammed, but if you have not heard the truth then I do not know if you can be accountable, I believe so but I don’t know for sure. I will have to look into that.

I find it ridiculous to believe that a theological work written originally Greek and distributed to many Greeks has basis to say 'if you don't say the Hebrew name you are dammed' that's utterly absurd and seems to be ground more in your personal preference for philo-semitism than actual theology.

Yahweh sent his only begotten son to do what no man could, and that was living a perfect life under the law without sin and in so doing he fulfilled the law and offered up his blood for all of man's sins. Yahweh saw that men would not follow the law and that they instead lived after their own lusts, but he loved man so much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that the law might be fulfilled and that man would have a way to be saved through Yahshua his son. Israel would not keep the covenant made with Yahweh, they repeatedly went against it but he loved them to much to kill them so he made a way for them and all mankind to be saved, through Yahshua. Yahweh is the creator, the Alpha and Omega, he sent his prophets to speak his will to the people and they met persecution and man would not heed the words which had been given to them by Yahweh, so Yahweh sent his only begotten son and through him was Yahweh's will spoken. All which Yahshua taught was not from him but from the Father which sent him.

John 7:16-19
"16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John14:5-31

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands the stone spoken of in the old testament. The prophets of Yahweh told of Yahshua's coming.


Isaiah 28:16-17
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place


Psalms 118:22
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Luke 20:17
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

Mark 12:10
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Isaiah 8:14-15
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

Ephesians 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Daniel 2:45
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Romans 9:31-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Yahshua is the bringer of the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:27-34.

27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


The Bible uses two meanings for the word forever. There is the eternal one which in use is forever and ever and then there is the one that means for a period of time which has an end and that one is forever.
Exodus 15:18
The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.

Daniel 2:20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

Philippians 4:20
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen

1 Peter5:11
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

1 timothy 1:17
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 22:5
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


Every time something is eternal it is forever and ever and not simply forever. This was done on purpose to signify eternity and not just the amount of time that is forever.

If the law is fulfilled and a new way by which to be saved is given how then can the old method of salvation be in use still? The law was fulfilled and there is only way path to salvation

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

The law was fulfilled and the path to salvation was given, and that path is through Yahshua our savior.

I have come into this debate with an open mind and if I am shown to be wrong I will accept it, I have my own beliefs as you have seen but if those beliefs are proven to be wrong then I will admit it to you. I will not twist what the prophesies have said and when reading them I will look to find what you have found to come to the conclusion that you came to, but if it is not the truth then I cannot accept it. So again I say, show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

All things which the prophets have spoken will come to pass. Yahshua not be present on earth durning the end of days he will spiritually stand on the mount of olives and it will cleft in the midst thereof but he will not be phyiscially present during the end of days and at his second coming the heavens and the earth will be destroyed.
2 peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zech 14:4
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


If Paul had preached to the Greeks using that name instead of the true name Yahshua he would have been committing a sin, but knowing that Paul wished to serve Yahweh to the fullest extent he would have only used the name Yahshua when preaching to the Gentiles to avoid Yahweh's wrath. He could have preached to them using the name Yahshua, all he had to do was teach them the name by saying it repeatedly until they could properly pronounce it then all that was left was to teach them the meaning of the name speaking to them in their native language the whole time using Yahshua in reference to the Son of Yahweh an they would understand who he was talking about. Given that it is the only name by which man can achieve salvation he would have preached in that name alone since to do anything else would be against Yahweh. If the Greeks or any other peoples had known that the true name of the son of Yahweh is Yahshua and did not use that name and that name alone then they would indeed be dammed since that is the only name given unto man by which we can be saved.

The Pharisees, the High priests, and the Sadducees all sought to have Yahshua killed and they succeeded. Throughout the new testament you can see instances of those peoples persecuting Yahshua and those who followed him Matt26:59-66, Stephen was stoned to death at the order of a High Priest Acts 7, Acts 14:1-6 speaks of jews stirring up people to kill those preaching Yahshua's word, and then there is Paul who was a Pharisee and someone who actively sought to persecute or have killed those who believed that Yahshua was our savior.

I would like to see the proof that you have for this claim, Paul was a Pharisee but on his way to Damascus Yahshua came to him and spoke with him, afterward he became a believer in Yahshua. Until you show me the proof of this I will have to take his word over yours.

They would understand his meaning if he first taught them how to pronounce the word and then what it meant. After that was done they would most definitely understand his meaning and more importantly the names meaning. There is only one name by which man can achieve salvation and that name is Yahshua, Paul and the other Apostles knowing what his true name was would not use any other name because to do that would be to knowingly damn those who you gave the false name and to damn yourself for using the incorrect name to preach.


There is one name given unto man by which they can be saved
Acts 4:12,
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

There is one name not many names, one and that name is Yahshua. To preach, baptize, or pray with any other name would be against Yahweh and a sin. Therefore Yahshua would be the only name used.

Yahshua was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew name, there is only one name by which man can be saved, the man who holds that name is a Hebrew and has a Hebrew name. Why would the name by which man can be saved be a Greek name if Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as a Hebrew person with a Hebrew name. There is one name of one man by which we can achieve salvation and that man was Hebrew as was his name. I do not see how there is confusion here. Yahshua is the only name by which man can be saved.

[ThePeacekeepers]

Yahshua lived his life in accordance with what the prophets had said and proved himself to be the son of Yahweh and in fulfilling the law he gave man a way to be saved through him.

I'd like to direct your attention to my response to one of your previous posts, if you don't mind. I think it's an important point to make, and I'd like to see your response.

But in digging through that pile, how do you know what is true and what is garbage?

It is difficult to know what is true and what isn't but once you find something you think is true you must research it until you can ascertain without a doubt that what you have found is indeed the truth.

[Baiynistan]

This question has been asked for thousands of years and we've still yet to find a decent argument in favour of the notion or substantial evidence which suggests that gods (or any other supernatural phenomenon) exist.

To quote Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.". There is no extraordinary evidence where notions of the divine are concerned. That's why it's called faith.

[ThePeacekeepers]

Deuteronomy 13 (The gist: Judaism doesn't like change - everything a prophet says must be in accordance with everything that already been said. Ie. No revisions like "the golden rule".)

Or that God could be a man.
Numbers 23:19.

It is true that Yahweh is NOT a man as it states in numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
It does not say that he could not manifest himself in the flesh. Yahweh is all powerful and can do anything which he desires.

[Sun Wukong]

Or that God could be a man.
Numbers 23:19.

It is true that Yahweh is NOT a man as it states in numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
It does not say that he could not manifest himself in the flesh. Yahweh is all powerful and can do anything which he desires.

Can he microwave a burrito so hot that he cannot eat it?

Because I can do that.

[Hindenburgia]

I'd like to direct your attention to my response to one of your previous posts, if you don't mind. I think it's an important point to make, and I'd like to see your response.

It is difficult to know what is true and what isn't but once you find something you think is true you must research it until you can ascertain without a doubt that what you have found is indeed the truth.

And that is the problem, right there. You find something that you "think is true", and then seek out support for it. This causes confirmation bias.

The alternative would be first researching, then concluding, not the other way around.

Basically, science is a tool one uses to become right, not to prove oneself right.

[ThePeacekeepers]

It is difficult to know what is true and what isn't but once you find something you think is true you must research it until you can ascertain without a doubt that what you have found is indeed the truth.

And that is the problem, right there. You find something that you "think is true", and then seek out support for it. This causes confirmation bias.

The alternative would be first researching, then concluding, not the other way around.

Basically, science is a tool one uses to become right, not to prove oneself right.

I would not seek out support, I would try to find out if it is correct by looking at the other side of whatever it was. I would look at the part trying to disprove it first and if it can be shown that what I thought had truth in it was not true then I would cease to accept it as truth, but if it was found that it could not be disproven and instead that it was indeed the truth then I would accept it as such.

[Hindenburgia]

And that is the problem, right there. You find something that you "think is true", and then seek out support for it. This causes confirmation bias.

The alternative would be first researching, then concluding, not the other way around.

Basically, science is a tool one uses to become right, not to prove oneself right.

I would not seek out support, I would try to find out if it is correct by looking at the other side of whatever it was. I would look at the part trying to disprove it first and if it can be shown that what I thought had truth in it was not true then I would cease to accept it as truth, but if it was found that it could not be disproven and instead that it was indeed the truth then I would accept it as such.

I suppose I worded that poorly.

Basically, what I took issue with was how you wrote that you start by "find[ing] something you think is true". In doing this, you have made a judgement call - a small one, perhaps, but one nonetheless - regarding the idea in question. This taints your results by affecting your evaluation of information you find, your evaluation of the credibility of the sources you find, and even the way you search for information. All three of these are ways in which you introduce bias into your decision.

[Menassa]

God never once stated that this was going to occur, he never once told the Children of Israel that this would come to 'fulfill the Law' and regardless of doctrine and dogma think about how that would even make any sense.

"Here is this Law Israel you must keep it and emulate God."
"But if God dies on a cross it is no longer valid?"

That doesn't seem very logical.

That's not true, 'forever has an end' it does not it means forever that is ever.


And? That doesn't change the nature of the Covenant if people break a Law that doesn't make the Law non-existent.


I believe it was you who said 'you did not come here to learn anything' or maybe I am confused but your statement 'give me an answer' implies that you can twist anything you see into an answer, a clearly biased opinion.


The actual description of the Messianic age in Isaiah 2 perhaps lies directly in contrast with revelations, but that's not important.
What is important is the lack of occurrence of Isaiah 2 translating into the lack of The Messiah being present on earth.


Again, when he spoke to the Hebrews, he spoke in Hebrew.
That DOES NOT mean that when he spoke to the Greeks he did not speak in Greek, in fact, he most probably did speak in Greek and say the name 'Iesus' to the Galatians among others... cannot it be said that they are not saved? That is absurd.



That's a lie, the Pharisees really didn't persecute anyone. Check your history.


Paul, despite his claims to the contrary was most probably not a Pharisee.

Besides for the inability of his congregants to understand his meaning because it was in a different language.

Exactly why that applies to Jesus, and Moses, and Joshua, and God.


Where is your proof of this claim?

I find it ridiculous to believe that a theological work written originally Greek and distributed to many Greeks has basis to say 'if you don't say the Hebrew name you are dammed' that's utterly absurd and seems to be ground more in your personal preference for philo-semitism than actual theology.

Yahweh sent his only begotten son to do what no man could, and that was living a perfect life under the law without sin and in so doing he fulfilled the law and offered up his blood for all of man's sins. Yahweh saw that men would not follow the law and that they instead lived after their own lusts, but he loved man so much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that the law might be fulfilled and that man would have a way to be saved through Yahshua his son. Israel would not keep the covenant made with Yahweh, they repeatedly went against it but he loved them to much to kill them so he made a way for them and all mankind to be saved, through Yahshua. Yahweh is the creator, the Alpha and Omega, he sent his prophets to speak his will to the people and they met persecution and man would not heed the words which had been given to them by Yahweh, so Yahweh sent his only begotten son and through him was Yahweh's will spoken. All which Yahshua taught was not from him but from the Father which sent him.

John 7:16-19
"16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John14:5-31

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands the stone spoken of in the old testament. The prophets of Yahweh told of Yahshua's coming.


Isaiah 28:16-17
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place


Psalms 118:22
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Luke 20:17
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

Mark 12:10
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Isaiah 8:14-15
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

Ephesians 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Daniel 2:45
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Romans 9:31-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Yahshua is the bringer of the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:27-34.

27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


The Bible uses two meanings for the word forever. There is the eternal one which in use is forever and ever and then there is the one that means for a period of time which has an end and that one is forever.
Exodus 15:18
The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.

Daniel 2:20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

Philippians 4:20
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen

1 Peter5:11
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

1 timothy 1:17
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 22:5
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


Every time something is eternal it is forever and ever and not simply forever. This was done on purpose to signify eternity and not just the amount of time that is forever.

If the law is fulfilled and a new way by which to be saved is given how then can the old method of salvation be in use still? The law was fulfilled and there is only way path to salvation

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

The law was fulfilled and the path to salvation was given, and that path is through Yahshua our savior.

I have come into this debate with an open mind and if I am shown to be wrong I will accept it, I have my own beliefs as you have seen but if those beliefs are proven to be wrong then I will admit it to you. I will not twist what the prophesies have said and when reading them I will look to find what you have found to come to the conclusion that you came to, but if it is not the truth then I cannot accept it. So again I say, show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

All things which the prophets have spoken will come to pass. Yahshua not be present on earth durning the end of days he will spiritually stand on the mount of olives and it will cleft in the midst thereof but he will not be phyiscially present during the end of days and at his second coming the heavens and the earth will be destroyed.
2 peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zech 14:4
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


If Paul had preached to the Greeks using that name instead of the true name Yahshua he would have been committing a sin, but knowing that Paul wished to serve Yahweh to the fullest extent he would have only used the name Yahshua when preaching to the Gentiles to avoid Yahweh's wrath. He could have preached to them using the name Yahshua, all he had to do was teach them the name by saying it repeatedly until they could properly pronounce it then all that was left was to teach them the meaning of the name speaking to them in their native language the whole time using Yahshua in reference to the Son of Yahweh an they would understand who he was talking about. Given that it is the only name by which man can achieve salvation he would have preached in that name alone since to do anything else would be against Yahweh. If the Greeks or any other peoples had known that the true name of the son of Yahweh is Yahshua and did not use that name and that name alone then they would indeed be dammed since that is the only name given unto man by which we can be saved.

The Pharisees, the High priests, and the Sadducees all sought to have Yahshua killed and they succeeded. Throughout the new testament you can see instances of those peoples persecuting Yahshua and those who followed him Matt26:59-66, Stephen was stoned to death at the order of a High Priest Acts 7, Acts 14:1-6 speaks of jews stirring up people to kill those preaching Yahshua's word, and then there is Paul who was a Pharisee and someone who actively sought to persecute or have killed those who believed that Yahshua was our savior.

I would like to see the proof that you have for this claim, Paul was a Pharisee but on his way to Damascus Yahshua came to him and spoke with him, afterward he became a believer in Yahshua. Until you show me the proof of this I will have to take his word over yours.

They would understand his meaning if he first taught them how to pronounce the word and then what it meant. After that was done they would most definitely understand his meaning and more importantly the names meaning. There is only one name by which man can achieve salvation and that name is Yahshua, Paul and the other Apostles knowing what his true name was would not use any other name because to do that would be to knowingly damn those who you gave the false name and to damn yourself for using the incorrect name to preach.


There is one name given unto man by which they can be saved
Acts 4:12,
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

There is one name not many names, one and that name is Yahshua. To preach, baptize, or pray with any other name would be against Yahweh and a sin. Therefore Yahshua would be the only name used.

Yahshua was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew name, there is only one name by which man can be saved, the man who holds that name is a Hebrew and has a Hebrew name. Why would the name by which man can be saved be a Greek name if Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as a Hebrew person with a Hebrew name. There is one name of one man by which we can achieve salvation and that man was Hebrew as was his name. I do not see how there is confusion here. Yahshua is the only name by which man can be saved.

If you could put your 'scriptural selections' in a spoiler tag that would make my life just that much easier.

Yahweh sent his only begotten son to do what no man could, and that was living a perfect life under the law without sin and in so doing he fulfilled the law and offered up his blood for all of man's sins.

Not only does God not state that this was ever going to occur, but The prophet ezkeiel speaks against the death of the wicked as appeasement for sins.
The Lord, God of Israel never once in the thirty-six books of the Old Testament states that there is to come a man to be a sacrfice for there is no such concept.

More than just to replace the sacrifices which Hosea says has been done without Jesus or a man dying but the entire Law? King David, in the longest chapter of the Bible solely discuess his love for Gods Law, nothing about Jesus or the cross or Salvation through Grace.

Yahweh saw that men would not follow the law and that they instead lived after their own lusts, but he loved man so much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that the law might be fulfilled and that man would have a way to be saved through Yahshua his son.

Interestingly enough he stated that the Law was to stand forever and there was no way to change it.
As well the true God of Israel who is not a man that he should lie nor a human that he should change his mind stated that in the Messianic age, the Law would be kept by all men.
Are you telling me that God did away with the Law for a time? That's not scripturally evident at all.

Israel would not keep the covenant made with Yahweh, they repeatedly went against it but he loved them to much to kill them so he made a way for them and all mankind to be saved, through Yahshua.

It's funny how you keep switching between 'Jesus was sent to fulifll the Law for Israel' so that mankind may be saved through him... but that's regardless.
There is no place in scripture where he states the Law was not everlasting, rather to the contrary... a

Yahweh is the creator, the Alpha and Omega, he sent his prophets to speak his will to the people and they met persecution and man would not heed the words which had been given to them by Yahweh, so Yahweh sent his only begotten son and through him was Yahweh's will spoken. All which Yahshua taught was not from him but from the Father which sent him.

It's funny that you say 'alpha and omega' mister 'I'm so against Greek' John didn't say God is the 'Aleph and the Taph' he says Alpha and Omega which are greek letters.

But anyway it's not scripturally evident that God would send his son, who was also him at the same time to die and this would 'fulfill the law.'

John 7:16-19
"16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John14:5-31

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is by quoting this, maybe it's becasuse you didn't actually state your point.
But if it's connected to what you said above... you have my answer.

Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands the stone spoken of in the old testament. The prophets of Yahweh told of Yahshua's coming.


Isaiah 28:16-17
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place


Psalms 118:22
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Luke 20:17
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

Mark 12:10
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Isaiah 8:14-15
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

Ephesians 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Daniel 2:45
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Romans 9:31-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Utterly boulder dash (pun intended) nowhere in any of these does it state that this is in a reference to Jesus... what little you did quote of the Old Testament has nothing to do with your point at all.

In Psalms, David speaks of a person rejected... perhaps even himself? The glorious King to which all other Kings are comapred lead a troubled life, and many of his legitmacy many a time was doubted.

Comparatively, I think David's rejection is much greater than Jesus's I mean Christianity IS the largest religion in the world... not very despised if I do say so myself.

Jesus the person? I think David still has that one on him, he had armies fighting over his claims when he was alive...

Yahshua is the bringer of the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:27-34.

27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

To state that this 'New covenant has happened, is absurd and I'll show you why.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is CLEARLY talking about the Messianic age, an age that has not happened yet where everyone will know the Law and that means EVERYONE not just a few religious people.

http://drazin.com/?10._The_Eternal_Torah#Jeremiah31-30
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles ... srael.html
http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/art ... testament/

I would REALLY appriciate if you read all of those, and that you turned to the Lord, the true God of Israel and asked him to give you clarification, not some mediator but the God himself, The Holy One, Blessed be He

Every time something is eternal it is forever and ever and not simply forever. This was done on purpose to signify eternity and not just the amount of time that is forever.

That's blatant absurdity. With about as much scriptural basis as there is for any of things you have said, which is none my friend.

Nowhere in scripture does it state a difference between forever and forever and ever that is something you, a feeble human, has invented in their own mind and is not among what God designed.

The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God shall stand forever” (Isaiah 40:8).
Are you seriously saying that this 'forever' doesn't meant eternally? That God could change his mind? That directly contradicts scripture on many occasions.

If the law is fulfilled and a new way by which to be saved is given how then can the old method of salvation be in use still? The law was fulfilled and there is only way path to salvation.

The law was fulfilled and the path to salvation was given, and that path is through Yahshua our savior.

While you can use the New Testament to state a belief in the New Testament, you cannot use the New Testament to state that belief is the correct way of God that is absurd because then I could use the Koran to state it is the exact same thing!

And before you go on a whole rant about the Koran, stop, don't, I don't need it and you don't need it.

I have come into this debate with an open mind and if I am shown to be wrong I will accept it, I have my own beliefs as you have seen but if those beliefs are proven to be wrong then I will admit it to you. I will not twist what the prophesies have said and when reading them I will look to find what you have found to come to the conclusion that you came to, but if it is not the truth then I cannot accept it. So again I say, show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

All things which the prophets have spoken will come to pass. Yahshua not be present on earth durning the end of days he will spiritually stand on the mount of olives and it will cleft in the midst thereof but he will not be phyiscially present during the end of days and at his second coming the heavens and the earth will be destroyed.

Then Go, see what I have given you and turn the Lord of Israel.
Drop the circular logic and misquotations, drop the proof-texting and blatant disregard for God's holy word and take up council with the Sages and holy men of Israel who is the apple of God's eye.

If Paul had preached to the Greeks using that name instead of the true name Yahshua he would have been committing a sin, but knowing that Paul wished to serve Yahweh to the fullest extent he would have only used the name Yahshua when preaching to the Gentiles to avoid Yahweh's wrath. [...]

Again, something you entirely made up and has no scriptural basis in much of Christianity, you are on your own with this one my friend.

The Pharisees, the High priests, and the Sadducees all sought to have Yahshua killed and they succeeded.

Actually, Jesus was very friendly with the Pharisees in fact int he 23rd chapter of Matthew he states that you must DO AS THEY SAY.
He says the Pharisees, most probably to the exclusion of all other groups.
He calls them righteous as well.
And where in the New Testament does it say the PHARISEES tried to kill him?

I would like to see the proof that you have for this claim, Paul was a Pharisee but on his way to Damascus Yahshua came to him and spoke with him, afterward he became a believer in Yahshua. Until you show me the proof of this I will have to take his word over yours.

Whoa, Hold on now, are you sure about that? Paul himself says that to win people to God he would lie are you sure you want to take his word over mind who has never claimed to do such a thing?

Anyway, here are the two reasoins why Paul was probably not a Pharisee besides him basically, in the connotative sense, perjuring himself.

1: When Paul was on the road to Damascus, he was working for the High Priest, a Sadducee, a Pharisee would not take orders from such a person if they paid him.
2: Paul was directly involved in the killing of Christians which Pharisees were not a part of as I have shown above.

Yahshua was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew name, there is only one name by which man can be saved, the man who holds that name is a Hebrew and has a Hebrew name. Why would the name by which man can be saved be a Greek name if Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as a Hebrew person with a Hebrew name. There is one name of one man by which we can achieve salvation and that man was Hebrew as was his name. I do not see how there is confusion here. Yahshua is the only name by which man can be saved.

I could put it simply and this is not derisive.

Because. They. Mean. The. Exact. Same. Thing.

Now, as you have said you believe Jesus means 'hail zeuz' until you can provide substantial evidence for that I believe it's time for you to drop that bias from your Head.

Moshe = Moses
Jesus = Yeshuah

I find it funny as well that you can say 'Joshua' and 'Isaiah' but only Jesus becomes Yeshuah... can I ask for some consistency?

One last thing, please again the spoilers, one other last thing... a bit of a blessing of sorts from the Hebrew Benediction.

You graciously bestow knowledge upon man and teach mortals understanding. Graciously bestow upon us from You, wisdom, understanding and knowledge. Blessed are You L-rd, who graciously bestows knowledge.

Turn to the Lord of Israel and away from feeble men.

[ThePeacekeepers]

Yahweh sent his only begotten son to do what no man could, and that was living a perfect life under the law without sin and in so doing he fulfilled the law and offered up his blood for all of man's sins. Yahweh saw that men would not follow the law and that they instead lived after their own lusts, but he loved man so much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that the law might be fulfilled and that man would have a way to be saved through Yahshua his son. Israel would not keep the covenant made with Yahweh, they repeatedly went against it but he loved them to much to kill them so he made a way for them and all mankind to be saved, through Yahshua. Yahweh is the creator, the Alpha and Omega, he sent his prophets to speak his will to the people and they met persecution and man would not heed the words which had been given to them by Yahweh, so Yahweh sent his only begotten son and through him was Yahweh's will spoken. All which Yahshua taught was not from him but from the Father which sent him.

John 7:16-19
"16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John14:5-31

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands the stone spoken of in the old testament. The prophets of Yahweh told of Yahshua's coming.


Isaiah 28:16-17
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place


Psalms 118:22
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Luke 20:17
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

Mark 12:10
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Isaiah 8:14-15
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

Ephesians 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Daniel 2:45
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Romans 9:31-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Yahshua is the bringer of the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:27-34.

27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


The Bible uses two meanings for the word forever. There is the eternal one which in use is forever and ever and then there is the one that means for a period of time which has an end and that one is forever.
Exodus 15:18
The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.

Daniel 2:20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

Philippians 4:20
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen

1 Peter5:11
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

1 timothy 1:17
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 22:5
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


Every time something is eternal it is forever and ever and not simply forever. This was done on purpose to signify eternity and not just the amount of time that is forever.

If the law is fulfilled and a new way by which to be saved is given how then can the old method of salvation be in use still? The law was fulfilled and there is only way path to salvation

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

The law was fulfilled and the path to salvation was given, and that path is through Yahshua our savior.

I have come into this debate with an open mind and if I am shown to be wrong I will accept it, I have my own beliefs as you have seen but if those beliefs are proven to be wrong then I will admit it to you. I will not twist what the prophesies have said and when reading them I will look to find what you have found to come to the conclusion that you came to, but if it is not the truth then I cannot accept it. So again I say, show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

All things which the prophets have spoken will come to pass. Yahshua not be present on earth durning the end of days he will spiritually stand on the mount of olives and it will cleft in the midst thereof but he will not be phyiscially present during the end of days and at his second coming the heavens and the earth will be destroyed.
2 peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zech 14:4
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


If Paul had preached to the Greeks using that name instead of the true name Yahshua he would have been committing a sin, but knowing that Paul wished to serve Yahweh to the fullest extent he would have only used the name Yahshua when preaching to the Gentiles to avoid Yahweh's wrath. He could have preached to them using the name Yahshua, all he had to do was teach them the name by saying it repeatedly until they could properly pronounce it then all that was left was to teach them the meaning of the name speaking to them in their native language the whole time using Yahshua in reference to the Son of Yahweh an they would understand who he was talking about. Given that it is the only name by which man can achieve salvation he would have preached in that name alone since to do anything else would be against Yahweh. If the Greeks or any other peoples had known that the true name of the son of Yahweh is Yahshua and did not use that name and that name alone then they would indeed be dammed since that is the only name given unto man by which we can be saved.

The Pharisees, the High priests, and the Sadducees all sought to have Yahshua killed and they succeeded. Throughout the new testament you can see instances of those peoples persecuting Yahshua and those who followed him Matt26:59-66, Stephen was stoned to death at the order of a High Priest Acts 7, Acts 14:1-6 speaks of jews stirring up people to kill those preaching Yahshua's word, and then there is Paul who was a Pharisee and someone who actively sought to persecute or have killed those who believed that Yahshua was our savior.

I would like to see the proof that you have for this claim, Paul was a Pharisee but on his way to Damascus Yahshua came to him and spoke with him, afterward he became a believer in Yahshua. Until you show me the proof of this I will have to take his word over yours.

They would understand his meaning if he first taught them how to pronounce the word and then what it meant. After that was done they would most definitely understand his meaning and more importantly the names meaning. There is only one name by which man can achieve salvation and that name is Yahshua, Paul and the other Apostles knowing what his true name was would not use any other name because to do that would be to knowingly damn those who you gave the false name and to damn yourself for using the incorrect name to preach.


There is one name given unto man by which they can be saved
Acts 4:12,
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

There is one name not many names, one and that name is Yahshua. To preach, baptize, or pray with any other name would be against Yahweh and a sin. Therefore Yahshua would be the only name used.

Yahshua was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew name, there is only one name by which man can be saved, the man who holds that name is a Hebrew and has a Hebrew name. Why would the name by which man can be saved be a Greek name if Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as a Hebrew person with a Hebrew name. There is one name of one man by which we can achieve salvation and that man was Hebrew as was his name. I do not see how there is confusion here. Yahshua is the only name by which man can be saved.

If you could put your 'scriptural selections' in a spoiler tag that would make my life just that much easier.

Yahweh sent his only begotten son to do what no man could, and that was living a perfect life under the law without sin and in so doing he fulfilled the law and offered up his blood for all of man's sins.

Not only does God not state that this was ever going to occur, but The prophet ezkeiel speaks against the death of the wicked as appeasement for sins.
The Lord, God of Israel never once in the thirty-six books of the Old Testament states that there is to come a man to be a sacrfice for there is no such concept.

More than just to replace the sacrifices which Hosea says has been done without Jesus or a man dying but the entire Law? King David, in the longest chapter of the Bible solely discuess his love for Gods Law, nothing about Jesus or the cross or Salvation through Grace.

Yahweh saw that men would not follow the law and that they instead lived after their own lusts, but he loved man so much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that the law might be fulfilled and that man would have a way to be saved through Yahshua his son.

Interestingly enough he stated that the Law was to stand forever and there was no way to change it.
As well the true God of Israel who is not a man that he should lie nor a human that he should change his mind stated that in the Messianic age, the Law would be kept by all men.
Are you telling me that God did away with the Law for a time? That's not scripturally evident at all.

Israel would not keep the covenant made with Yahweh, they repeatedly went against it but he loved them to much to kill them so he made a way for them and all mankind to be saved, through Yahshua.

It's funny how you keep switching between 'Jesus was sent to fulifll the Law for Israel' so that mankind may be saved through him... but that's regardless.
There is no place in scripture where he states the Law was not everlasting, rather to the contrary... a

Yahweh is the creator, the Alpha and Omega, he sent his prophets to speak his will to the people and they met persecution and man would not heed the words which had been given to them by Yahweh, so Yahweh sent his only begotten son and through him was Yahweh's will spoken. All which Yahshua taught was not from him but from the Father which sent him.

It's funny that you say 'alpha and omega' mister 'I'm so against Greek' John didn't say God is the 'Aleph and the Taph' he says Alpha and Omega which are greek letters.

But anyway it's not scripturally evident that God would send his son, who was also him at the same time to die and this would 'fulfill the law.'

John 7:16-19
"16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

John14:5-31

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is by quoting this, maybe it's becasuse you didn't actually state your point.
But if it's connected to what you said above... you have my answer.

Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands the stone spoken of in the old testament. The prophets of Yahweh told of Yahshua's coming.


Isaiah 28:16-17
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place


Psalms 118:22
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

Luke 20:17
17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Matthew 21:42-44
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

Mark 12:10
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Isaiah 8:14-15
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Peter 2:6-8
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

Ephesians 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Daniel 2:45
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Daniel 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Romans 9:31-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Utterly boulder dash (pun intended) nowhere in any of these does it state that this is in a reference to Jesus... what little you did quote of the Old Testament has nothing to do with your point at all.

In Psalms, David speaks of a person rejected... perhaps even himself? The glorious King to which all other Kings are comapred lead a troubled life, and many of his legitmacy many a time was doubted.

Comparatively, I think David's rejection is much greater than Jesus's I mean Christianity IS the largest religion in the world... not very despised if I do say so myself.

Jesus the person? I think David still has that one on him, he had armies fighting over his claims when he was alive...

Yahshua is the bringer of the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:27-34.

27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

To state that this 'New covenant has happened, is absurd and I'll show you why.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is CLEARLY talking about the Messianic age, an age that has not happened yet where everyone will know the Law and that means EVERYONE not just a few religious people.

http://drazin.com/?10._The_Eternal_Torah#Jeremiah31-30
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles ... srael.html
http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/art ... testament/

I would REALLY appriciate if you read all of those, and that you turned to the Lord, the true God of Israel and asked him to give you clarification, not some mediator but the God himself, The Holy One, Blessed be He

Every time something is eternal it is forever and ever and not simply forever. This was done on purpose to signify eternity and not just the amount of time that is forever.

That's blatant absurdity. With about as much scriptural basis as there is for any of things you have said, which is none my friend.

Nowhere in scripture does it state a difference between forever and forever and ever that is something you, a feeble human, has invented in their own mind and is not among what God designed.

The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God shall stand forever” (Isaiah 40:8).
Are you seriously saying that this 'forever' doesn't meant eternally? That God could change his mind? That directly contradicts scripture on many occasions.

If the law is fulfilled and a new way by which to be saved is given how then can the old method of salvation be in use still? The law was fulfilled and there is only way path to salvation.

The law was fulfilled and the path to salvation was given, and that path is through Yahshua our savior.

While you can use the New Testament to state a belief in the New Testament, you cannot use the New Testament to state that belief is the correct way of God that is absurd because then I could use the Koran to state it is the exact same thing!

And before you go on a whole rant about the Koran, stop, don't, I don't need it and you don't need it.

I have come into this debate with an open mind and if I am shown to be wrong I will accept it, I have my own beliefs as you have seen but if those beliefs are proven to be wrong then I will admit it to you. I will not twist what the prophesies have said and when reading them I will look to find what you have found to come to the conclusion that you came to, but if it is not the truth then I cannot accept it. So again I say, show me these prophecies and I will give you an answer.

All things which the prophets have spoken will come to pass. Yahshua not be present on earth durning the end of days he will spiritually stand on the mount of olives and it will cleft in the midst thereof but he will not be phyiscially present during the end of days and at his second coming the heavens and the earth will be destroyed.

Then Go, see what I have given you and turn the Lord of Israel.
Drop the circular logic and misquotations, drop the proof-texting and blatant disregard for God's holy word and take up council with the Sages and holy men of Israel who is the apple of God's eye.

If Paul had preached to the Greeks using that name instead of the true name Yahshua he would have been committing a sin, but knowing that Paul wished to serve Yahweh to the fullest extent he would have only used the name Yahshua when preaching to the Gentiles to avoid Yahweh's wrath. [...]

Again, something you entirely made up and has no scriptural basis in much of Christianity, you are on your own with this one my friend.

The Pharisees, the High priests, and the Sadducees all sought to have Yahshua killed and they succeeded.

Actually, Jesus was very friendly with the Pharisees in fact int he 23rd chapter of Matthew he states that you must DO AS THEY SAY.
He says the Pharisees, most probably to the exclusion of all other groups.
He calls them righteous as well.
And where in the New Testament does it say the PHARISEES tried to kill him?

I would like to see the proof that you have for this claim, Paul was a Pharisee but on his way to Damascus Yahshua came to him and spoke with him, afterward he became a believer in Yahshua. Until you show me the proof of this I will have to take his word over yours.

Whoa, Hold on now, are you sure about that? Paul himself says that to win people to God he would lie are you sure you want to take his word over mind who has never claimed to do such a thing?

Anyway, here are the two reasoins why Paul was probably not a Pharisee besides him basically, in the connotative sense, perjuring himself.

1: When Paul was on the road to Damascus, he was working for the High Priest, a Sadducee, a Pharisee would not take orders from such a person if they paid him.
2: Paul was directly involved in the killing of Christians which Pharisees were not a part of as I have shown above.

Yahshua was a Hebrew, he had a Hebrew name, there is only one name by which man can be saved, the man who holds that name is a Hebrew and has a Hebrew name. Why would the name by which man can be saved be a Greek name if Yahweh was manifest in the flesh as a Hebrew person with a Hebrew name. There is one name of one man by which we can achieve salvation and that man was Hebrew as was his name. I do not see how there is confusion here. Yahshua is the only name by which man can be saved.

I could put it simply and this is not derisive.

Because. They. Mean. The. Exact. Same. Thing.

Now, as you have said you believe Jesus means 'hail zeuz' until you can provide substantial evidence for that I believe it's time for you to drop that bias from your Head.

Moshe = Moses
Jesus = Yeshuah

I find it funny as well that you can say 'Joshua' and 'Isaiah' but only Jesus becomes Yeshuah... can I ask for some consistency?

One last thing, please again the spoilers, one other last thing... a bit of a blessing of sorts from the Hebrew Benediction.

You graciously bestow knowledge upon man and teach mortals understanding. Graciously bestow upon us from You, wisdom, understanding and knowledge. Blessed are You L-rd, who graciously bestows knowledge.

Turn to the Lord of Israel and away from feeble men.

I ask that you please give me the passages for the things you are saying come from the bible, it would be much easier on me.

Give me the passage in Ezekiel. He did say that he would set a corner stone in Zion and that he was to make a new covenant. I have already shown you it mentions the corner stone in Psalms which is Yahshua.

He also said he would make a new covenant. yahshua fulfilled the law and made the new covenant with man.

Look to my above answer.

Again, it is mentioned of Yahshua's coming throughout the old testament and Alpha and Omega is what is in the Greek bible and that's how it was translated to English if you would prefer I could say it the Hebrew way.

My reason for putting it is because Yahshua states throughout the new testament that he has come to fulfill the law and has given a doctrine that was not from him but from his father to man. He did not speak of himself but of his Father who sent him.

It states a stone will cut out without human hands. It states that this stone will be placed in Zion as a foundation and "he that believeth shall not make haste. It states that the stone will be rejected by the builders. Yahshua is the stone cut out without human hands he is the foundation upon which we can be saved. He is the bringer of the new covenant with man. He is the only way to salvation.
Christianity today is a perversion of what it was originally, it has been corrupted through time and through the Catholic church. The so called Christians of today know not Yahweh or his son Yahshua, they worship graven images and every year pay homage to pagan gods. To find among them even 200 thousand would be a feat. They do not keep to the commandments of Yahshua and when you try to show them the truth in their churches they caste you out and do not allow you to return because you make them look like fools using the word of Yahshua as a sword against them. They persecute those who are true followers of Yahshua they speak all manner of evil against you and they have it in their hearts to do all that was done to Yahshua to you because they cannot accept the things that are of God because they are of the world and have a natural mind that seeks only worldly lusts. The Jews of the day rejected Yahshua's teachings as did the Pharisees and sought to have him killed Matt 12:14, Mark 3:6, John 11:46-57. Look in at the 23rd chapter of Matthew again, if you are quoting something I advise you read through all of it, if you had done that you would see his real opinion of the Pharisees. I ask that you do this now, search to see that the law was still in effect until Yahshua died and that when he said to "DO AS THEY SAY" as you have said he was still very much alive and had not died on the cross yet so the law had not been fulfilled in him so to not listen to the law would be against Yahweh. After his death though the law had been fulfilled and the way to salvation was made through him.

He said he would put it in their hearts and through faith in Yahshua can he be in our hearts. Faith in the corner stone. The foundation upon which we can be saved. Yahweh will forgive mans sins and has given the way to salvation through his son Yahshua. Yahweh has always required Faith in him, that has not changed we need only have faith in his son and believe on his name and his commandments to be saved. Everyone has it in them to know the law, and are judged by it always, the ability is there to be saved and we are given a chance in this life to do what has been placed in our hearts, but man has trouble leaving the pleasures of the flesh and of the world for the promise of everlasting life far off in the future. Everyone is judged under the commandments which Yahshua has brought to us which are indeed the commandments of the father who sent him whose name is Yahweh.

I have read what you have provided but could not be convinced by what they have said, their argument was not strong enough to disprove Yahshua being the savior of mankind. I have seen many like them in my search for truth and none have shown me that Yahshua is not our savior. Do not think me biased but once you do research into a matter and continued research into it does not show you definitively that it is not the truth and the information on the other side shows that it is indeed true should it not be accepted as truth until disproven? I have come in with an open mind but if the information provided cannot show me to be wrong in my beliefs then I cannot give up those beliefs.

How then are you supposed to use the New testament? The word of God is a sword and is the only way to salvation, are we to find other ways besides what the words of Yahweh and his son have said? Would that not go in direct contradiction to what the whole bible says? He has given us a way to be saved, and we have a book filled with his laws. Are we not to follow it as the only path to salvation as it has said? Should we instead turn away from the word of Yahweh and seek other means to salvation? The Bible is the only place the law of Yahweh can be found, the New testament is the fulfillment of the Old and Yahweh has given us a way to salvation through Yahshua.

The New testament says there is only way to Yahweh and that is through his son Yahshua. If that is what it says, then to be saved you must do what Yahweh has commanded us to do. To do any to other thing would be against Yahweh and would not lead you to salvation. The New testament is the fulfillment of the Old and we must do as Yahweh has commanded us to be saved. He has given us the path, all we have to do is walk it.

I only seek the truth but have not found any here. I use the bible as it was meant to be used. I use it as a sword, I have the utmost regard for Yahweh's word and have only preached what he has given me. If I were to go to these men I would be thrown out of the synagogues as Yahshua was, all things man did unto him can I expect to be done unto me. Once I have fully devoted my life to Yahshua and have gotten right according to his law I will indeed be preaching in the synagogues and churches, I will spread the word of Yahshua as far as I can and to as many as I can and they will hate me because they are of the world and hate all that is not of it, even Yahweh and his son Yahshua. The chief priests and Jewish ministers of the day could not accept him when he was in the flesh before them doing miracles right before their very eyes, they could not accept him then and they cannot accept him now, but I have not given up hope that some of them might yet come again to Yahweh.

How am I alone? It has been stated there is only one name by which we can be saved, is that name not important? To change it to another language is to change its meaning and to change it at all is to alter the Holy name by which we can be saved and those who preach by that changed name are not using the correct one since it has been altered. Is it not easier to just use the original than to try and use any other form of it? To simply avoid what might provoke Yahweh to anger. We have heard of his wrath in the old testament why then would we go against his wishes and call his wrath upon us? It is as simple to avoid in this case by just using the correct name would is it better in the sight of Yahweh to do that which is commanded by him or to do that which is made of man? If Yahweh did not wish for us to use that name he would not have given it to us and would have use the Greek version or some other name entirely he chose that name specifically he gave it to his son, his son died on the cross bearing that name throughout his life the name picked by Yahweh is Yahweh's will not important? It was Yahweh's will that his son be named that why in this instance do you question Yahweh's will but in others you accept it wholeheartedly?

Please show me the passage in the bible when you are quoting something from it and I will do the same for you, in a spoiler as you have asked.
Paul says he was a Pharisee and though he most probably worked with Sadducees as well it is true that both the Sadducees and Pharisees did not accept Yahshua or his claim that he was the son of Yahweh, and they both actively tried to have him killed.

I will drop the meaning of Jesus on this forum as Hail Zeus until I can find the site which I had read before that showed that it was the meaning. I believe the site has been taken down, and the person who showed it to me cannot find it either and has lost the notes he took from the site, once I find either the notes or the site I will tell you.
And you may ask for some consistency, if you really wish that I call them by their original names I will, I did not do it before because it saves me some time, and others who are reading some headache to figure out who I am speaking of. The reason I have remained consistent on the original name of Yahshua is because, as I have said, it is the only name by which man can be saved.

I have turned from men and from the world and seek only to live in righteousness. Turn to the one true God Yahweh and accept his son whom he sent to die for our sins that we might be saved. Believe in your heart that Yahshua is our savior and once you have no doubt in you and believe wholeheartedly that he is our savior be baptized in his name for the remission of your sins.

[ThePeacekeepers]

I would not seek out support, I would try to find out if it is correct by looking at the other side of whatever it was. I would look at the part trying to disprove it first and if it can be shown that what I thought had truth in it was not true then I would cease to accept it as truth, but if it was found that it could not be disproven and instead that it was indeed the truth then I would accept it as such.

I suppose I worded that poorly.

Basically, what I took issue with was how you wrote that you start by "find[ing] something you think is true". In doing this, you have made a judgement call - a small one, perhaps, but one nonetheless - regarding the idea in question. This taints your results by affecting your evaluation of information you find, your evaluation of the credibility of the sources you find, and even the way you search for information. All three of these are ways in which you introduce bias into your decision.

I suppose I have written my answer poorly as well, when I put "something you think is true" I had meant it as something you think Might be true. I do not mean this as I see it, and think that maybe it is true, but instead that it seems like something that might be possible or that it might have happened. I feel nothing for it one way or the other upon first discovery, and as I have said I actively seek to disprove it and show it is false first and foremost. I can think of no better way for me describe what I think upon seeing new information at this time than that, combined with what I have already said in my post to you before this one.

[ThePeacekeepers]

Yahshua is indeed our savior, and through his name only can man be saved.

And you know this because of prophecies he hasn't fulfilled. Got it.

I know this because of the prophecies he has fulfilled, and because of what Yahweh has spoken of through Yahshua and the prophets that came before him.

[Cocorico113]

We first must define what God is; 'the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe' (1) We then must define universe; 'the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm' (2) Therefore, if God exists he must have created himself by the definition of universe if one supposed that God existed. Prior to this there would have been nothing.
We then must consider whether it is more likely that God created himself, defined as a 'Supreme being' out of nothing or that the big bang occurred out of nothing. Applying Occam's razor, the big bang hypothesis should be chosen as the correct hypothesis.
Despite this, if God did exist, Can omniscient God, who knows the future, find the omnipotence to change his future mind? (3) This leads to a conflict that leaves God either not omniscient or omnipotent, which are both generally associated with the term 'Supreme' in most religions and by definition in relation to such a being in itself. Other issues must be discussed such as why we observe phenomenon such as evolution and CMB that have been traced back to the big bang.
Among these issues is the issue that is consistent within many religions, that is a lack of consistency. There are a number of contradictions within the Holy books of many religions or issues in which passages of the text can be interpreted in a number of different ways. Examples of contradictions are illustrated in (4) and (5). Interpretation issues are present throughout most religions and are especially present when one considers the issue of, in Christian terms, denominations, which each hold up a different interpretation of the same text.
One must decide therefore, whether they wish to disregard Occam's Razor for a God that is likely to be interpreted by a religion that contains contradictions or issues of interpretation. Along with this they will likely have to disregard the Big Bang theory, Evolution and if one is a Christian (which holds the highest amount of followers), Geology for a God that even by definition is implausible. By accepting religion, we are disregarding science and scientific reasoning and its methodology of testing that which we hypothesize with evidence or observe around us.

“There are, in effect, two things, to know and to believe one knows; to know is science; to believe one knows is ignorance.”
- Hippocrates
1. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god
2. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universe
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
4. http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_ ... tions.html
5. http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/