Masculinity. What does it mean to be a man?

[Pragia]

Eh, bored and will apply MTBI signs to each
Masc-fem
Introvert-extrovert
Intuition-Sensing
Thinking-feeling
Judging-perceiving

[Unitaristic Regions]

1. Identify themselves as a man.
That's it. If you want to be called a woman or a man, I'll call you whatever you want. Gender doesn't matter to me much anyways.

I'll agree there.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Eh, bored and will apply MTBI signs to each
Masc-fem
Introvert-extrovert
Intuition-Sensing
Thinking-feeling
Judging-perceiving

ENTP-ISTP here.

Seems legit.

[CTALNH]

Or genetic manipulation? Science has progressed you know....

You said a la Spartana, not a revision of it.

Throwing babies down the abyss is wasteful and stupid when science gives us a even better solution.

I am very certain the spartans would agree.

[New Edom]

Any of the guys here want to be a house husband? How do women feel about that?

[Nervium]

Any of the guys here want to be a house husband? How do women feel about that?

I'm open to the idea. Being a man.

[Ovisterra]

So, a person with a penis who doesn't identify as a man is nonetheless a man, according to you?

---

Nope.

I do not know if that makes me really creepy or deranged.

Neither, it makes you someone who really, really wants to be seen as one or both of those.

[Diopolis]

I like how Nick Offerman explained how to be a man.

1) Take a bite of steak.
2) Wash it down with some whiskey, preferably single malt scotch.
3) Find a Socialist and punch him or her in the face.
4) Hand-craft a small wooden boot out of cedar.
5) Make love to a partner of your choice, preferably someone who is accepting of your advances.
6) Upon climax, withdraw your firearm and unload some rounds laced with double entendre into the night sky.

Source

Sounds pretty effiminate if you aske me.

Indeed. The first steps should be about killing and butchering an animal, not eating it. *nods*
On topic, I tend to view it as being gentlemanly.

[United Christian States of America]

To be unquestionably expendable and never speak out against the injustice toward them from a cruel, uncaring, gynocentric society.

[CTALNH]

I do not know if that makes me really creepy or deranged.

Neither, it makes you someone who really, really wants to be seen as one or both of those.

That argument is rendered null because nobody wants to seem creepy or deranged...

[New Edom]

To be unquestionably expendable and never speak out against the injustice toward them from a cruel, uncaring, gynocentric society.

Unfortunately. But people need to have a sense of integrity to flourish, and generally our society doesn't teach it to either men or women.

[Nervium]

To be unquestionably expendable and never speak out against the injustice toward them from a cruel, uncaring, gynocentric society.

Unfortunately. But people need to have a sense of integrity to flourish, and generally our society doesn't teach it to either men or women.

And it's also not gynocentric... But that's just a major detail.

[Ovisterra]

Neither, it makes you someone who really, really wants to be seen as one or both of those.

That argument is rendered null because nobody wants to seem creepy or deranged...

Evidently at least one person does. *shrug* I'm not gonna pretend I understand the mindset that much.

[Magna Libero]

That one is able to change a lamp. Obviously. Although, I can't change one and I'm a man, so...

But you can still open jars, right?

No. I would starve if I hadn't women stronger than me to do that. According to the evolution theory I deserve to die, right?

[Ayreonia]

I think the most important thing about masculinity is that it's voluntary. Acting like a "real man" out of a wish to conform or due to peer pressure is not manly, it's forcing a role you don't want upon yourself because you're afraid of what other people would think of you. No.

Another thing is tolerance. I've met an unfortunately high amount of Manly Men^tm who thought they could assert their manliness by looking down on women, gays, transfolk and other groups who are socially weaker than they are. No. Besides being abhorrent, doing so shows that you are insecure. There's nothing more badass than treating someone with the respect they deserve. It's not manly to punch a queer. It's not manly to tell a woman to get back in the kitchen. It's not manly to mock a fellow man for not liking "manly" things and having no interest in cars, guns and steak (before you ask, I like cars, guns and steak myself).

Hatred and violence don't make a man.

[Nervium]

I think the most important thing about masculinity is that it's voluntary. Acting like a "real man" out of a wish to conform or due to peer pressure is not manly, it's forcing a role you don't want upon yourself because you're afraid of what other people would think of you. No.

Another thing is tolerance. I've met an unfortunately high amount of Manly Men^tm who thought they could assert their manliness by looking down on women, gays, transfolk and other groups who are socially weaker than they are. No. Besides being abhorrent, doing so shows that you are insecure. There's nothing more badass than treating someone with the respect they deserve. It's not manly to punch a queer. It's not manly to tell a woman to get back in the kitchen. It's not manly to mock a fellow man for not liking "manly" things and having no interest in cars, guns and steak (before you ask, I like cars, guns and steak myself).

Hatred and violence don't make a man.

Dear God... What are you, a hippie?

I agree, though.

[CTALNH]

That argument is rendered null because nobody wants to seem creepy or deranged...

Evidently at least one person does. *shrug* I'm not gonna pretend I understand the mindset that much.

You want to seem creepy and deranged?

[Ovisterra]

Evidently at least one person does. *shrug* I'm not gonna pretend I understand the mindset that much.

You want to seem creepy and deranged?

Am I the one claiming to be at least one of the two? No. That was you.

[Big Jim P]

Neither, it makes you someone who really, really wants to be seen as one or both of those.

That argument is rendered null because nobody wants to seem creepy or deranged...

Ahem....

[CTALNH]

You want to seem creepy and deranged?

Am I the one claiming to be at least one of the two? No. That was you.

I never claimed I am either neither would I wanna be either I just said I must seem either one or the other.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I think the most important thing about masculinity is that it's voluntary. Acting like a "real man" out of a wish to conform or due to peer pressure is not manly, it's forcing a role you don't want upon yourself because you're afraid of what other people would think of you. No.

Another thing is tolerance. I've met an unfortunately high amount of Manly Men^tm who thought they could assert their manliness by looking down on women, gays, transfolk and other groups who are socially weaker than they are. No. Besides being abhorrent, doing so shows that you are insecure. There's nothing more badass than treating someone with the respect they deserve. It's not manly to punch a queer. It's not manly to tell a woman to get back in the kitchen. It's not manly to mock a fellow man for not liking "manly" things and having no interest in cars, guns and steak (before you ask, I like cars, guns and steak myself).

Hatred and violence don't make a man.

I think this deserves an AQ'd.

[Kromar]

Part of your confusion about this Rio is that you oppose any given strandard of manhood with manchildishness, and femininity, when each individual item in the standard differentiates between manly men and at least one other group (otherwise the standard would be pointless). So in the example that someone posted above that men must be honorable, you replied asking if a dishonorable person was effeminate or man childish. He is not. Such a man would be immoral, by the moral standards of maleness. I do not know if there is a label for males who occupy that demographic, other than "men who are not real men." but that's kindof a silly name.

Here is a list of what I believe the requirements of "being a man" are, with the groups it differentiates men from being listed with each element.

does not Identify as gender other than male - non cisgendered males
is biologically male - women

And now what follows is a list of manly traits. Not all need be possesed by a man, but certain ones may be essential in order for a man to be a "real man." non males could hold a number of these properties and would then be said to be "manly." Also note that I've tried to eliminate from the list things that an accurate list of womanliness would include, because they would be redundant.

Is largely self reliant - manchildren, boys
Expresses few negative emotions/ holds few negative feelings. Rage is an exception; a real man may on occasion become enraged at no cost to his manliness. - effeminates/manchildren, boys
Socially aggressive: postures himself socially to appear dominant over others, especially when challenged (in the form of insults, shit-testing, and provokation) - effeminates/manchildren, shy guys (depending on how severe the lack of social power)
Strong: Physical strength is valued, as is psychological strength (resistance to depression, lonliness, and other psychological issues that show weakness of some kind.) - boys, effeminates, manchildren
Willing to get dirty: both literally and morally, a man should be willing to do what is necessary. - effeminates, manchildren

[Pragia]

Eh, bored and will apply MTBI signs to each
Masc-fem
Introvert-extrovert
Intuition-Sensing
Thinking-feeling
Judging-perceiving

ENTP-ISTP here.

Seems legit.

In general the way I see it, not nessecarily correct

[Ovisterra]

Am I the one claiming to be at least one of the two? No. That was you.

I never claimed I am either

Well that's just not true.

neither would I wanna be either

That's probably true, but I never denied it.

I just said I must seem either one or the other.

Indeed, coming across as edgy and cool and apparently slightly psychopathic seems to be your aim.

But I'm not here to debate this with you. I have nothing to prove and certainly nothing to gain from such a discussion. I'm just pointing it out.

[CTALNH]

I never claimed I am either

Well that's just not true.

neither would I wanna be either

That's probably true, but I never denied it.

I just said I must seem either one or the other.

Indeed, coming across as edgy and cool and apparently slightly psychopathic seems to be your aim.

But I'm not here to debate this with you. I have nothing to prove and certainly nothing to gain from such a discussion. I'm just pointing it out.

Indeed lets not derail the thread.