Islamic Jihad launches Rocket Barrage

[Transoxthraxia]

You could say that about the Muslims who first conquered the land then. And then the Crusaders, the Turks, etcetera. The thing is, Israel has been put on this planet, defended itself in three major wars fought against every neighbouring country, etcetera. If that isn't a birthright, I don't know what is.

And why should the current inhabitants of Palestine, whose parents were toddlers during the establishment of Israel, pay for that 'birthright'?

Because the Jews had to pay for theirs long ago, the Romans theirs, the Crusaders theirs, the Turks theirs, etcetera. They don't get any special treatment.

[Avenio]

And why should the current inhabitants of Palestine, whose parents were toddlers during the establishment of Israel, pay for that 'birthright'?

Because the Jews had to pay for theirs long ago, the Romans theirs, the Crusaders theirs, the Turks theirs, etcetera. They don't get any special treatment.

One would hope that you would have learned that 'He did it first!!!" stopped being a valid excuse when you finish potty training.

Evidently that hope was misplaced.

[Gauthier]

Was that the ship that was spying on them?

No. It was a research ship in international waters. The IDF mistook it for an Egyptian ship and attacked it, killing 34 and injuring 171.

Translation: "It was a spy ship and Israel was perfectly justified in shooting it." *nod nod*

[Fascist Russian Empire]

To be fair, they have more than enough justification to attack Israel. Attempting to suppress Palestinian independence, waging wars of imperialism against the Arab nations (See Suez Crisis, and the numerous other wars waged by and against Israel); I can't, and won't say that the Jihadists are unjustified in attacking Israel, whether attacking civilians is ethical or not. Israel has proven itself to be an imperialistic nation unworthy of being allied to the United States, and the world should support Palestine against Israel.

[Saiwania]

Israel should try to do as Russia does, whenever attacked just annex territory until the neighboring countries learn their lesson and stop. The Palestinians only have the Gaza strip and the west bank on a de facto basis, so to start Gaza should be annexed and if it happens again, then the west bank. Taking the Golan heights and the Sinai was punishment meted out to Syria and Egypt, but only Egypt behaved in such a way as to let their punishment be lifted. But if the Egyptians step out of line I'm certain the Sinai can be retaken only it shouldn't be given back next time to ensure the lesson sticks.

[Herskerstad]

To be fair, they have more than enough justification to attack Israel. Attempting to suppress Palestinian independence, waging wars of imperialism against the Arab nations (See Suez Crisis, and the numerous other wars waged by and against Israel); I can't, and won't say that the Jihadists are unjustified in attacking Israel, whether attacking civilians is ethical or not. Israel has proven itself to be an imperialistic nation unworthy of being allied to the United States, and the world should support Palestine against Israel.

If Israel had attempted to use Imperialism in the middle east at any point, they would have owned a region larger than 'greater Syria' today.

But if you want to support Hamas, a totalitarian, one party state 'they have driven their opposition in the Gaza underground' which has fun stuff like adultery laws, motorcycle-draggings of suspected spies, theocratic definition, human-shield utilizing international terrorists and claim they stand a force for Palestinian independence, and not the 'drive the Jews into the sea' at best, but far more likely 'kill the unbeliever' stance. Then you will find yourself very marginalized among honest people on both sides of the fence.

The Jihadists are nothing short of the most morally devoid force of mankind today.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

And so it begins...
Israel launches dozens of strikes

They're mad.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

To be fair, they have more than enough justification to attack Israel. Attempting to suppress Palestinian independence, waging wars of imperialism against the Arab nations (See Suez Crisis, and the numerous other wars waged by and against Israel); I can't, and won't say that the Jihadists are unjustified in attacking Israel, whether attacking civilians is ethical or not. Israel has proven itself to be an imperialistic nation unworthy of being allied to the United States, and the world should support Palestine against Israel.

If Israel had attempted to use Imperialism in the middle east at any point, they would have owned a region larger than 'greater Syria' today.

But if you want to support Hamas, a totalitarian, one party state 'they have driven their opposition in the Gaza underground' which has fun stuff like adultery laws, motorcycle-draggings of suspected spies, theocratic definition, human-shield utilizing international terrorists and claim they stand a force for Palestinian independence, and not the 'drive the Jews into the sea' at best, but far more likely 'kill the unbeliever' stance. Then you will find yourself very marginalized among honest people on both sides of the fence.

The Jihadists are nothing short of the most morally devoid force of mankind today.

1: I never said that attacking civilians was ethical. I said I understood their justifications for doing it.
2: I said I support Palestine more than Israel, not that I supported Hamas or Jihadists.

[Spoder]

If Israel had attempted to use Imperialism in the middle east at any point, they would have owned a region larger than 'greater Syria' today.

But if you want to support Hamas, a totalitarian, one party state 'they have driven their opposition in the Gaza underground' which has fun stuff like adultery laws, motorcycle-draggings of suspected spies, theocratic definition, human-shield utilizing international terrorists and claim they stand a force for Palestinian independence, and not the 'drive the Jews into the sea' at best, but far more likely 'kill the unbeliever' stance. Then you will find yourself very marginalized among honest people on both sides of the fence.

The Jihadists are nothing short of the most morally devoid force of mankind today.

1: I never said that attacking civilians was ethical. I said I understood their justifications for doing it.
2: I said I support Palestine more than Israel, not that I supported Hamas or Jihadists.

Because supporting a nation that is driving gender-equality back before the middle-ages, that is restrictive, that is full misinformed men and women who hate the people who want a better future for the descendants and cannot see past their own next 10 years of life.

[Herskerstad]

Israel should try to do as Russia does, whenever attacked just annex territory until the neighboring countries learn their lesson and stop. The Palestinians only have the Gaza strip and the west bank on a de facto basis, so to start Gaza should be annexed and if it happens again, then the west bank. Taking the Golan heights and the Sinai was punishment meted out to Syria and Egypt, but only Egypt behaved in such a way as to let their punishment be lifted. But if the Egyptians step out of line I'm certain the Sinai can be retaken only it shouldn't be given back next time to ensure the lesson sticks.

Egypt might actually become the closet to a regional friend they have now. Turkey flip-flops like useual, but if the liberal forces win over the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is still a huge, long-term battle because of their moronic islamist constitution that stood drafted,

A re-annexation of the Gaza is a very plausible event. Keeping it is less likely as it creates increased international flak which does not go away easily, not to mention that the left is a stronger than average force in Israel and has a tendency to lean towards appeasement. The best option would be liquidating Hamas and re-installing Abbas so that the nation is at least governed by one, and not two voices. While Abbas is hard as hell to negotiate with, at least it's not the equivalent of the suicide-bomb Hamas doctrinal wing.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

1: I never said that attacking civilians was ethical. I said I understood their justifications for doing it.
2: I said I support Palestine more than Israel, not that I supported Hamas or Jihadists.

Because supporting a nation that is driving gender-equality back before the middle-ages, that is restrictive, that is full misinformed men and women who hate the people who want a better future for the descendants and cannot see past their own next 10 years of life.

Yes, because Israel is totally known for being a world benchmark of human rights, amiright?

Every country in the Middle East, Israel included, is backwards in regards to equality. The only difference is that Israel tries to justify their human rights violations, and imperialistic ambitions with their religion, claiming that all their opponents are antisemitic. I'm no fan of extreme Islam, but it's still a better alternative that imperialistic Zionists.

[Spoder]

Because supporting a nation that is driving gender-equality back before the middle-ages, that is restrictive, that is full misinformed men and women who hate the people who want a better future for the descendants and cannot see past their own next 10 years of life.

Yes, because Israel is totally known for being a world benchmark of human rights, amiright?

Every country in the Middle East, Israel included, is backwards in regards to equality. The only difference is that Israel tries to justify their human rights violations, and imperialistic ambitions with their religion, claiming that all their opponents are antisemitic. I'm no fan of extreme Islam, but it's still a better alternative that imperialistic Zionists.

They're still better than Islam.
Women see just as much service in the military as men.
They mostly have equal rights.
More importantly, the "pampered" ladies don't complain about it when they have to serve just like the men.
And they certainly have a better track record than just about any Islamic country.

[Siaos]

Because supporting a nation that is driving gender-equality back before the middle-ages, that is restrictive, that is full misinformed men and women who hate the people who want a better future for the descendants and cannot see past their own next 10 years of life.

Yes, because Israel is totally known for being a world benchmark of human rights, amiright?

Every country in the Middle East, Israel included, is backwards in regards to equality. The only difference is that Israel tries to justify their human rights violations, and imperialistic ambitions with their religion, claiming that all their opponents are antisemitic. I'm no fan of extreme Islam, but it's still a better alternative that imperialistic Zionists.

I don't see your logic. How are Islamic extremists any better than Zionists? Zionists generally just want Israel, which is understandable, while Jihadists have gotten involved in countries from Mali to Afghanistan. They're both capable of highly violent acts against the other, but at least Zionists tend to limit themselves to their Holy Land.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

Yes, because Israel is totally known for being a world benchmark of human rights, amiright?

Every country in the Middle East, Israel included, is backwards in regards to equality. The only difference is that Israel tries to justify their human rights violations, and imperialistic ambitions with their religion, claiming that all their opponents are antisemitic. I'm no fan of extreme Islam, but it's still a better alternative that imperialistic Zionists.

They're still better than Islam.
Women see just as much service in the military as men.
They mostly have equal rights.
More importantly, the "pampered" ladies don't complain about it when they have to serve just like the men.
And they certainly have a better track record than just about any Islamic country.

And Europe has a better track record than all the Middle East combined; what's your point? Israel is still a backwards nation, and the fact that they ain't as backwards as Saudi Arabia doesn't justify them. The Islamic nations are eventually going to westernize and embrace ideals of human rights; supporting Zionism, the enemy of Islam, is only going to send a message that the West is the enemy of Islam, and make them less inclined to embrace western ideals.

[Spoder]

They're still better than Islam.
Women see just as much service in the military as men.
They mostly have equal rights.
More importantly, the "pampered" ladies don't complain about it when they have to serve just like the men.
And they certainly have a better track record than just about any Islamic country.

And Europe has a better track record than all the Middle East combined; what's your point? Israel is still a backwards nation, and the fact that they ain't as backwards as Saudi Arabia doesn't justify them. The Islamic nations are eventually going to westernize and embrace ideals of human rights; supporting Zionism, the enemy of Islam, is only going to send a message that the West is the enemy of Islam, and make them less inclined to embrace western ideals.

Any possibility of the west liking Islam was struck down after 9/11.
Islam is the enemy of the west.
Islamism is not compatible with western ideals.
Israelis just want to keep their land, and not be bothered by anybody with petty wars.
Islam wants everybody to be Islamist or die.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

And Europe has a better track record than all the Middle East combined; what's your point? Israel is still a backwards nation, and the fact that they ain't as backwards as Saudi Arabia doesn't justify them. The Islamic nations are eventually going to westernize and embrace ideals of human rights; supporting Zionism, the enemy of Islam, is only going to send a message that the West is the enemy of Islam, and make them less inclined to embrace western ideals.

Any possibility of the west liking Islam was struck down after 9/11.
Islam is the enemy of the west.
Islamism is not compatible with western ideals.
Israelis just want to keep their land, and not be bothered by anybody with petty wars.
Islam wants everybody to be Islamist or die.

You seem to be generalizing all Muslims as extremists, which ain't the case in reality. While one, two, maybe three percent of the Islamic world might be extremists, saying that all Muslims are is generalization. Reconciling differences and being friends is a much better way to get views across than launching invasions and discrimination. The only people who should be too infatuated with their hatred should be extremists and ignorant people (both American and Middle Eastern), and most reasonable people should be able to see that there's no reason to hate anybody.

[Kelinfort]

And Europe has a better track record than all the Middle East combined; what's your point? Israel is still a backwards nation, and the fact that they ain't as backwards as Saudi Arabia doesn't justify them. The Islamic nations are eventually going to westernize and embrace ideals of human rights; supporting Zionism, the enemy of Islam, is only going to send a message that the West is the enemy of Islam, and make them less inclined to embrace western ideals.

Any possibility of the west liking Islam was struck down after 9/11.
Islam is the enemy of the west.
Islamism is not compatible with western ideals.
Israelis just want to keep their land, and not be bothered by anybody with petty wars.
Islam wants everybody to be Islamist or die.

The problem has always been fundamentalism; that will die in time. It took a while for Christian fundamentalism to decay too, but it will. Islam itself doesn't contradict Western ideals; fundamentalism of all kinds does.

[Siaos]

And Europe has a better track record than all the Middle East combined; what's your point? Israel is still a backwards nation, and the fact that they ain't as backwards as Saudi Arabia doesn't justify them. The Islamic nations are eventually going to westernize and embrace ideals of human rights; supporting Zionism, the enemy of Islam, is only going to send a message that the West is the enemy of Islam, and make them less inclined to embrace western ideals.

1) Any possibility of the west liking Islam was struck down after 9/11.
2) Islam is the enemy of the west.
3) Islamism is not compatible with western ideals.
4) Israelis just want to keep their land, and not be bothered by anybody with petty wars.
5)Islam wants everybody to be Islamist or die.

1) Debatable
2) And yet there are Muslims living in the West.
3) Then why are there completely westernized Muslims living in the house right next to me? It depends on what type of Islam, of course.
4) The problem is that they consider much more land "their land" than what is actually their land.
5) That's only one small sect of radical Islam, actually. Most sects of Islam specifically prohibit conversion by force.

[Herskerstad]

If Israel had attempted to use Imperialism in the middle east at any point, they would have owned a region larger than 'greater Syria' today.

But if you want to support Hamas, a totalitarian, one party state 'they have driven their opposition in the Gaza underground' which has fun stuff like adultery laws, motorcycle-draggings of suspected spies, theocratic definition, human-shield utilizing international terrorists and claim they stand a force for Palestinian independence, and not the 'drive the Jews into the sea' at best, but far more likely 'kill the unbeliever' stance. Then you will find yourself very marginalized among honest people on both sides of the fence.

The Jihadists are nothing short of the most morally devoid force of mankind today.

1: I never said that attacking civilians was ethical. I said I understood their justifications for doing it.
2: I said I support Palestine more than Israel, not that I supported Hamas or Jihadists.

1 -

I can't, and won't say that the Jihadists are unjustified in attacking Israel, whether attacking civilians is ethical or not.

Luckily I can say it. Directing attacks which serve no purpose other than to inflict terror in the civilian populace is unethical. Attacking urban areas with missiles that cannot make the distinction between a military base and a kindergarten is woeful and should immediately gain a UN-wide condemnation.

If you lay a message branding Israel as imperialist, but dance entirely around the nature of the ones who stand the aggressor in this instance saying that you say they have more than the justification to attack 'and lets be honest, unmistakably they attack civilian targets the majority of the time' and that they are not unjustified in their attack, then that's kind of the only thing that's left to gather from your message unless you specifically mention that you support Fatah when they are peaceful, but Fatah has nothing to do with this. The only body which is attacking is a branch of Hamas which again, discriminates not from civilian to military personnel in the attack you see as justified. And yes, the nature of the attack does matter as this is not some exercise with military tactical goals, but rather an exercise in creating fear and out of wanton destruction, then nothing remains other than saying you think there is more than enough justification for Hamas to blow up whatever they want in the region.

2 - Well they were the force behind the attack. So what exactly do you support inside the nation?

[Rhodevus]

1) Any possibility of the west liking Islam was struck down after 9/11.
2) Islam is the enemy of the west.
3) Islamism is not compatible with western ideals.
4) Israelis just want to keep their land, and not be bothered by anybody with petty wars.
5)Islam wants everybody to be Islamist or die.

1) Debatable
2) And yet there are Muslims living in the West.
3) Then why are there completely westernized Muslims living in the house right next to me? It depends on what type of Islam, of course.
4) The problem is that they consider much more land "their land" than what is actually their land.
5) That's only one small sect of radical Islam, actually. Most sects of Islam specifically prohibit conversion by force.

to your #4, Israel considers their land as their land. What they have now, they won in wars and was recognized by the UN. If you say this isn't enough of a reason, then the US should be given back to the UK, Texas should be part of Mexico, and Canada should belong to the French. Wars happen, borders change.

[Siaos]

1) Debatable
2) And yet there are Muslims living in the West.
3) Then why are there completely westernized Muslims living in the house right next to me? It depends on what type of Islam, of course.
4) The problem is that they consider much more land "their land" than what is actually their land.
5) That's only one small sect of radical Islam, actually. Most sects of Islam specifically prohibit conversion by force.

to your #4, Israel considers their land as their land. What they have now, they won in wars and was recognized by the UN. If you say this isn't enough of a reason, then the US should be given back to the UK, Texas should be part of Mexico, and Canada should belong to the French. Wars happen, borders change.

The populace of West Bank has made it overwhelmingly clear that they wish break off from Israel and have mostly broken off from Israel through force. The fact that Israel is still claiming West Bank is no more legitimate than China's claim on Taiwan of Taiwan's claim on China.

Also remember that the UN also states that all people have the right to self-determination. The people of West Bank have determined that they no longer wish to be apart of Israel, so Israel should follow the UN law and allow West Bank to break off.

[Rhodevus]

to your #4, Israel considers their land as their land. What they have now, they won in wars and was recognized by the UN. If you say this isn't enough of a reason, then the US should be given back to the UK, Texas should be part of Mexico, and Canada should belong to the French. Wars happen, borders change.

The populace of West Bank has made it overwhelmingly clear that they wish break off from Israel and have mostly broken off from Israel through force. The fact that Israel is still claiming West Bank is no more legitimate than China's claim on Taiwan of Taiwan's claim on China.

If the West Bank breaks off now, the same thing will happen to them that has happened to Gaza, which is the government will be replaced with Hamas or another terrorist group and now have access to fire on all the rest of Israel
Also remember that the UN also states that all people have the right to self-determination. The people of West Bank have determined that they no longer wish to be apart of Israel, so Israel should follow the UN law and allow West Bank to break off.

[Spoder]

4) The problem is that they consider much more land "their land" than what is actually their land.

Because originally that land was our land.
Until centuries of abuse and harassment by various other civilizations drove us out.

[Kelinfort]

Because originally that land was our land.
Until centuries of abuse and harassment by various other civilizations drove us out.

What about the Canaanites?
According to the Bible, they were slaughtered and exiled, too.

[Menassa]

Tension in the middle east, News at 11.

Also, don't we have a megathread for this?